Thread the needle

By Hepitude, in Runewars Rules Questions

If I'm a single tray and I'm engaged with single-tray enemies at the front and the side, can enemy archers shoot me through the tiny diagonal gap left by the enemy trays?

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Follow up questions... If I'm the archers with "Close Quarter Targeting," can I fire at an enemy engaged on my side?

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Edited by Hepitude

For the first question, I don't see why not. I think the archers will be able to shoot you.

For the second question, I'm not sure. Close Quarters Targeting reads, "You can target enemies engaged with you." The question is, does Close Quarters Targeting add a new class of eligible targets (i.e. enemies engaged with you), or does it simply remove the stipulation that you can't make ranged attacks when engaged (meaning the enemy still must be in your firing arc)? I'm not sure and I think I need to read over the targeting rules again, but I don't think the answer will be there. I think we'll need a FAQ entry for this.

1 hour ago, Hepitude said:

If I'm a single tray and I'm engaged with single-tray enemies at the front and the side, can enemy archers shoot me through the tiny diagonal gap left by the enemy trays?

image.png.9867596c638b5d72cb845ffee3d19f91.png

Follow up questions... If I'm the archers with "Close Quarter Targeting," can I fire at an enemy engaged on my side?

image.png.4b392b075dbcf9200125e490aecdc457.png

In the first case there is a minute amount of space between the engaged units as they do not lock tabs. Therefore there will be a tiny gap and they should be able to target as the width of the line matters not, just that there is a line.

I agree that case 2 will need an FAQ entry to clarify. My take would be that they are technically not in LOS to the front of the engaged unit, so no ranged shots.

With no rules to really support me (other than the LOS guide line on the plastic) I would imagine that a flanking unit that is flush with your front cannot be targeted with a ranged attack.

3 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

For the first question, I don't see why not. I think the archers will be able to shoot you.

For the second question, I'm not sure. Close Quarters Targeting reads, "You can target enemies engaged with you." The question is, does Close Quarters Targeting add a new class of eligible targets (i.e. enemies engaged with you), or does it simply remove the stipulation that you can't make ranged attacks when engaged (meaning the enemy still must be in your firing arc)? I'm not sure and I think I need to read over the targeting rules again, but I don't think the answer will be there. I think we'll need a FAQ entry for this.

The FAQ included an erratum for Close-Quarters Targeting which replaces the first sentence with the sentence, "You may perform this [ranged] attack while engaged." In addition to allowing a ranged unit to shoot an enemy they are not engaged with, even if a different unit is engaged with said ranged unit, it also references "this [ranged] attack", which indicates to me that all other requirements for a ranged attack are necessary.

And just based on geometry, considering that the connectors are in the way, I really doubt that a unit with Close-Quarters Targeting could use a ranged attack to target an enemy unit that is flanking. To me, a flanking unit is pretty clearly out of arc.

45 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

And just based on geometry, considering that the connectors are in the way, I really doubt that a unit with Close-Quarters Targeting could use a ranged attack to target an enemy unit that is flanking. To me, a flanking unit is pretty clearly out of arc.

I pulled out trays and the laser pointer, and can say with no doubt, that the red tray flanking the 4-tray blue ME unit is out of arc. I would include a pic, but I need an extra set of hands to hold the camera...

*goes to animate a Rune Golem for some helping hands*

3 hours ago, Parakitor said:

The FAQ included an erratum for Close-Quarters Targeting which replaces the first sentence with the sentence, "You may perform this [ranged] attack while engaged." In addition to allowing a ranged unit to shoot an enemy they are not engaged with, even if a different unit is engaged with said ranged unit, it also references "this [ranged] attack", which indicates to me that all other requirements for a ranged attack are necessary.

And just based on geometry, considering that the connectors are in the way, I really doubt that a unit with Close-Quarters Targeting could use a ranged attack to target an enemy unit that is flanking. To me, a flanking unit is pretty clearly out of arc.

I think that settles it for me. That's a bit rough for Archers, but I can't see a reason now for them to be able to make a ranged attack out their side or back edges.

7 hours ago, Govrek said:

I pulled out trays and the laser pointer, and can say with no doubt, that the red tray flanking the 4-tray blue ME unit is out of arc.

Totally agree I said "the connectors are in the way," but what I meant to say was, "Since the connectors don't lock for enemy units, the trays are far enough apart that that the flanker is clearly out of the front arc." English better, Parakitor. :P

Still need LOS to perform a ranged attack, CQT allows you to shoot any unit in your LOS in arc even if engaged

On 1/20/2018 at 8:52 PM, Jukey said:

Still need LOS to perform a ranged attack, CQT allows you to shoot any unit in your LOS in arc even if engaged

Which unless you are toting heartseeker is the out front engaged 90% the time and nothing else.

How does Heartseeker factor into this? It's mentioned in the FAQ that it only lets you ignore LoS restrictions. The attack still has to be inside your firing arc.

1 hour ago, Daverman said:

How does Heartseeker factor into this? It's mentioned in the FAQ that it only lets you ignore LoS restrictions. The attack still has to be inside your firing arc.

He said shoot any unit, that's how, any unit without it is an edge case in and of itself.

There's actually a battle report of this happening in one of my games. Hawthorne flanked my archers and a spearstar was moving towards my front.

rather than try to wound Hawthorne I just targeted the spearmen and snagged a few trays while Hawthorne wiffed his dice.