I have been playing X-Wing for 6 months now and have a few thoughts I would like to share. First I think this game is amazing and has one of the best communities of any game scene. Everybody has been very welcoming and helpful. To be honest it is one of the main reasons I even gave this game a try. In my opinion the community is the only thing keeping this game alive. I am a competive person like most and I play to win. Sure I have fun and I Fly Casual. I don’t mind losing because I take that as a learning experience since I have only been playing for a short time and it win help me win more down the road. The only problem I see for this game is the King Ogre at the top of the mountain. How does a new player enter a game scene where most of the players have been playing for 4+ years? I bought a core, a mat, HotR, 4x B-Wing(my fav), Arc 170 And VT-49. Figuring I could know be competive. How naive I was. You can fly any ship you buy right out the box, but without those upgrade cards from other ships to make it competitive, it just gets blown off the mat. Sure you can proxy, but not at a tournament. I then proceeded to buy more ships thinking I could make my self competive. K-Wing, YT-2400, Tie/D, Tie Fighter, Imperial Veterans, Tie Advanced, Guns for Hire, Auztuck, Tie Bomber etc. surely I had enough ships now to field a competitive list for Regionals. Not even close. Without the Upgrade Cards from ships I have no desire to fly or just plan suck. You can’t play competitively. So being confined to playing casually, eventually I am afraid I will lose interest. The King Ogre only wants whales in this game, somebody willing to buy 3 U-Wings to get the Expertise cards. Where does that leave the health of the game. You need to keep adding new players as you move forward to keep the community alive. I see no way to play competively without becoming a whale. Not everybody can spend 1000+ dollars to fly plastic spaceships around. How does the King Ogre keep the game alive without adding fresh blood?

You can try trading for/buying/borrowing the specific upgrade cards you need to make your lists work. There are places to find them, and there's a trading thread somewhere on these forums. If you're looking for specific cards without buying the ships that is definitely possible!

FFG has data that suggests that +95% of players never go to an official event and just play casually. The cost of competing at the top levels won't affect the vast majority of players.

Ebay has a lot of individual cards for sale. They are usually being scalped, but if you really don't want the ship they come with they aren't that bad at all. The hardest to get cards (palatine/3PO) that come with epic ships are usually in the 20s. But most other cards are below $10. With 3 good ships you could easily buy the cards you need to make them competitive for less than $100.

I've been playing for 2 months. I bought most of my collection second hand (eBay is a good source for cards) and traded online for other things.

EDIT: ninja'd by @JaxonEvans on the eBay scoop

Everybody I meet In last 6 months that plays this game regularly. Is going or making an effort to goto Regionals this weekend.

You have the answer to your main concern in your text: you have an a great community.

- During casual game nights, bring printed lists if you don't have the cards. Most people won't mind.

- For events, ask and borrow cards.

- Got a wacky build that requires 4 Kimogila? Borrow the ships and try it out before you buy.

That's the speech we give to every new player that asks us about getting into the game. We tell them to join the Facebook group, join for a few casual nights and afterwards, people lend stuff no problem. We know that money does not grow on trees and even big spenders sometimes have wacky ideas that they would rather no pay for (Edit / hint: we have an epic league too and not everyone wants to buy multiple punishers to try something).

Heck, for our epic league, I have loaned my Corvette repeatedly (and not everyone wants to shell out almost 100$). It's all good.

While I agree the game is not new-player friendly, I disagree with the reasons. As you said, when you're playing for fun, there's nothing keeping you from proxying the cards. It's only when you go to a regional event that it becomes an issue. So there are two things I'll say to that point. 1) I would not consider regional events as aimed at new players. 2) Folks competing at regionals for the most part have played their lists numerous times and settled on it beforehand, including purchasing the expansions and the upgrade cards they need specifically to run that list.

I fear that the game is not new-player friendly for other reasons. The "rules" have become so in-depth that you don't understand how the game works prior to getting smashed by a specific list. You can read the rule book and think you know what's going on, and then you decide that to go with an Interceptor, and Soontir Fel at that because you acknowledge the advantage by moving last... Just to run up against TLTs that say "ha, noob trying to arc dodge." But because you didn't really know that turrets are a thing that violate the rules, you didn't know to plan for playing them. Then you decide that you're going to go with a Phantom because that 4th agility is going to be great when you can't arc dodge. Only to run up against proton bombs that one shot you. Then you use a Decimator thinking that high hull is useful, only to realize that those Harpoon missiles are going to tear you apart. All of these things violate the core rules, and there are so many of them these days that it seems ridiculous to think new players can grasp what's going on. I remember watching a few games back in 2013, and I could understand the flow of the game and the process, and what people were doing without memorizing the text on every single card. Now it's impossible to figure out how a list plays unless you understand every card, and every FAQ interaction associated with it. And that's a lot of rules for what should be a simple game.

The game makes the Community. The rules, the mechanics. People like to complain, but Xwing is really healthy if you compare with other competitive scenes.

About your complains. Your complain is just "the game is too expensive". That's just it.

What you want? Free rules, free cards, buy only the miniatures you want? Just because you don't want to expend money?

Your complain is the same: "I want to be competitie useing only the core set. Because I like to fly only tie fighters or Xwings"

Or you suggest that every expansion should be shipped with all upgrades that ship will ever use.
Stagnant play, nice.

Really, I don't get it.

If you only want to fly competitive, you need to think specifically about what you want to fly and buy for that. With FFG's model, that might include buying some stuff you don't need. But if you're targeting that one specific list, you don't need to buy everything. I think people have done the math and even the hardest to get lists never cost more than a couple hundred bucks.

And buying individual cards on eBay, trading for stuff, etc. are all great suggestions.

If you just think about the game from a pure love of the game perspective, it gets easier. I bought two U-Wings before I knew Expertise existed, just because I liked the ship. I think if you just keep flying casual and buying new stuff because you like it and want to play with it, the whole thing gets easier. I once had a player give me a Rebel Transport for free, because he only bought the pack for the stressbot and only flew 100/6. That was the best X-Wing night ever. People who only think about how "good" or "bad" various cards and ships are are missing the point.

Finally, proxy stuff and borrow stuff. You can even use an online squadbuilder, print out the list, and not bring the cards (in casual). You'll find most people who play this game are pretty friendly, and if you're friendly too, they'll be willing to help.

Dotswarlock is correct - the community is there to help you as well as to fight you.


This is a live issue that FFG know that they need to correct in their games, and it's why they added rotation to their Living Card Games in order to reduce the amount of back product that new players need to buy. I think the X-Wing approach is similar, which is a 'soft' rotation by making the new stuff so much better than the old stuff that you can ignore the older sets and don't need to waste so much money on them.

2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I think the X-Wing approach is similar, which is a 'soft' rotation by making the new stuff so much better than the old stuff that you can ignore the older sets and don't need to waste so much money on them.

You can pry my 8 blue TIE fighters from my cold, dead hands (which, given how bad they are in the current meta will happen sooner rather than later).

Also Vassal is a great resource to be competitive. You have access to every ship and every upgrade in whatever quantity you want all for the low low price of $0.00.

As for Store Champs and Regionals, if you want to be competitive there, you need to pay the piper and pay your dues.

If you want to just go and have fun with a list you’ve practiced a lot, you can expect to do ok, but probably not make he top cut, but who knows? Maybe you’ve got what it takes kid!

I appreciate all the responses. I bought way more than the core set. What is wrong with all the relevant cards coming with a specific model. I am not only talking about my wants I am talking about any new player trying to bust through and enjoy this amazing game.

11 minutes ago, s1ickrick said:

I appreciate all the responses. I bought way more than the core set. What is wrong with all the relevant cards coming with a specific model. I am not only talking about my wants I am talking about any new player trying to bust through and enjoy this amazing game.

Going down this route means ships will quickly become obsolete.

If models are locked to the upgrades that comes with the ship itself then they will never be able to equip anything new. They will never be able to take advantage of new mechanics.

Not saying to lock cards in. But why doesn’t every Tie that can use it come with a Lightweight Frame. Makes no sense from a new players perspective to buy a Punisher for one card, especially since the model is nowhere to be seen on the competive scene.

2 minutes ago, s1ickrick said:

Not saying to lock cards in. But why doesn’t every Tie come with a Lightweight Frame. Makes no since from a new players perspective to buy a Punisher for one card, especially since the model is nowhere to be seen on the competive scene.

Basically, cost.

Doing it this way means your expansion packs need to be re-worked when a new one is released. It also makes old stock worth less as they do not contain the new cards,

2 minutes ago, s1ickrick said:

Not saying to lock cards in. But why doesn’t every Tie come with a Lightweight Frame. Makes no since from a new players perspective to buy a Punisher for one card, especially since the model is nowhere to be seen on the competive scene.

Why indeed would you have to buy a Punisher for Lightweight Frame, since the packs it comes in are the Striker and the Aggressor.

But you're right, Strikers are nowhere on the competitive scene... oh, wait...

36 minutes ago, s1ickrick said:

You can fly any ship you buy right out the box, but without those upgrade cards from other ships to make it competitive, it just gets blown off the mat. Sure you can proxy, but not at a tournament. I then proceeded to buy more ships thinking I could make my self competive. K-Wing, YT-2400, Tie/D, Tie Fighter, Imperial Veterans, Tie Advanced, Guns for Hire, Auztuck, Tie Bomber etc. surely I had enough ships now to field a competitive list for Regionals. Not even close. Without the Upgrade Cards from ships I have no desire to fly or just plan suck. You can’t play competitively.

Claiming that "FFG is not welcoming to new players" because you're struggling to make the cut at a Premier-level event is... pretty daft, really. It sounds like you have more than enough ships and upgrades to be able to put together any number of competitive builds. However, having the ships and cards won't magically transport you to the top cut at Regionals any more than buying a top of the line set of golf clubs will get you onto the PGA tour.

Just a cursory look at some of the recent regionals results shows some very straightforward and upgrade-light ships and builds picking up good results and making the cut, and upgrade and combo-heavy builds struggling at the wrong end of the Swiss rankings. Why is this the case?

Because the players at the top of the rankings have practiced, practiced, practiced. They know their lists, inside and out. They've flown them against a wide variety of opponents and builds. They know how to set up, how to plan their dials, how to prepare for and react to any given circumstances. If you want to make the cut and start winning prizes at anything greater than a Game Night event, you need to dedicate some serious time and effort to it. Upgrades will only take you so far. Fail to prepare = prepare to fail.

9 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Why indeed would you have to buy a Punisher for Lightweight Frame, since the packs it comes in are the Striker and the Aggressor.

But you're right, Strikers are nowhere on the competitive scene... oh, wait...

Sorry you are correct. Meant the Twin Ion Engine Mk. II

17 minutes ago, s1ickrick said:

Makes no sense from a new players perspective to buy a Punisher for one card, especially since the model is nowhere to be seen on the competive scene.

You do realize FFG is a for profit business right?!

I feel the original question may slightly miss the business model approach of the game's manufacturer; that of keeping established purchasers and users shelling-out more money for the latest release of ships - in short- fuelling desire. And I don't say this cynically- just matter-of-factly.

They do this by giving the next release of ships a subtle suite of attributes that give some competitive edge ...in competition. It might be a new kind of manoeuvre that allows the ship to evade one of the 'classic' types, or at least bring their guns to bear when the opposition is trying to out-manoeuvre them. It could also be a specific weapon or some other attribute...all aimed at the player that wants the competitive edge in a tournament environment.

If they don't do this, then once a player has - say - enough ships of a couple of factions for a mixed list in either faction...the sales dry-up.

Then, add a healthy dose of peer-pressure, amongst people that want to meet in tournaments primarily...and on forums (like this)...and it is easy to see how a more 'relaxed' or casual / social player (like me)...can be left behind.

It's just business...it's not unwelcoming as such...it just means that unless you get lucky with the dice, your basic TIE swarm is not likely to prevail against the latest offerings...because it is anything but a level battlefield.

10 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Claiming that "FFG is not welcoming to new players" because you're struggling to make the cut at a Premier-level event is... pretty daft, really. It sounds like you have more than enough ships and upgrades to be able to put together any number of competitive builds. However, having the ships and cards won't magically transport you to the top cut at Regionals any more than buying a top of the line set of golf clubs will get you onto the PGA tour.

Just a cursory look at some of the recent regionals results shows some very straightforward and upgrade-light ships and builds picking up good results and making the cut, and upgrade and combo-heavy builds struggling at the wrong end of the Swiss rankings. Why is this the case?

Because the players at the top of the rankings have practiced, practiced, practiced. They know their lists, inside and out. They've flown them against a wide variety of opponents and builds. They know how to set up, how to plan their dials, how to prepare for and react to any given circumstances. If you want to make the cut and start winning prizes at anything greater than a Game Night event, you need to dedicate some serious time and effort to it. Upgrades will only take you so far. Fail to prepare = prepare to fail.

Never said I was struggling to make the cut. Struggling to build a squad that can even compete. You say you can build a squad with those ships and cards. Let’s see it. We will go see if that list is on meta wing anywhere. For any regionals Top 16.

One nice counterpoint to this: whenever an upgrade only comes in a pack that costs $20 or more, FFG usually includes two or more of them to minimize the need to buy lots. You commented on buying three U-Wings for Expertise, but you already get two copies with each U-Wing. That just means a second U-Wing, and that's only if you really want to fly triple Auzitucks (the only list I can think of that uses triple Expertise).

And seconding what everyone says about using Vassal. It's a great environment to learn, experiment and practice. Why buy two U-Wings and three Auzitucks, only to learn that you really don't like the way the list flies?