Time to grab your torch and pitchforks people, lets have a look at squadrons...

https://d6addiction.blogspot.com.au/2018/01/state-of-meta-pt-2-imperial-squadrons.html

I feel that you severely underestimate the value of squints. You don't have to use them in alpha strikes, though they do excel in that. They also work well as landmines, trapping squadrons in your flack zones.

TIE fighter generics are frequently used in small squad lists of 2 to 4, and their goal is to just keep squadrons pinned long enough for a turn or two of flacking. The aces do have superb abilities and scatters and are almost always a good fit in one way or another.

And for their points, Bombers are the most efficient way of dealing damage to ships. It's not uncommon to see 4 bombers in squadron lists now, especially with BCC available.

It's almost always worth upgrading to Tempest if you're taking 2 Advanceds. If you're only taking 1 it should almost always be Zertik just for the braces.

Aggressors: mostly agree, though IG-88 is one of 2 units that can attack counter squadrons without worry. He pairs well with Saber squadron for killing Shara Bey.

17 minutes ago, Formynder4 said:

And for their points, Bombers are the most efficient way of dealing damage to ships. It's not uncommon to see 4 bombers in squadron lists now, especially with BCC available.

Aggressors: mostly agree, though IG-88 is one of 2 units that can attack counter squadrons without worry. He pairs well with Saber squadron for killing Shara Bey.

I don't think I've seen generic bombers used in the past year at all. The rise of the Ace balls has made them tough to run, since a flight controller backed TIE swarm or Share Bey have a chance of completely wiping them out in maybe an activation. I do actually think they might see a slight resurgence with EWS appearing, because at speed 4 they can jump large ships with ease and get to the unobstructed side.

I wish the base aggressor was speed 4. I think they would see more play then.

Tried Tie Bombers. They're NOT efficient. They die to things very fast, don't contribute nearly enough to AA in a pinch situation (leading to your AA dying, then your bombers, and losing 134 points!) and they cost a lot of squadron activations.

There's a reason why we don't see them that often.

I dunno, I think TIE bombers are pretty great. You don't need a lot of 'em, they're cheap, and they pair wonderfully with ruthless strategists!

They're surprisingly good against aces to boot. Can't brace 1 damage... is it worth scattering 1 damage? Jan can't do crap against it either. It can really add up. And if they do die.... your opponent still had to burn through 5 hull for only 9 points instead of shooting something more valuable.

I don't think it's hard to toss 2 or 3 into a squad ball and have them pay off.

Well again squadrons is a part of the list. If you are planing on Bombers then you very well need to use most of your squadron point allotment. Thus your ships are relegated to squadron support.

If you are planing on fighters as only anti fighters then you really want to get the most efficient fighters as you want to spend less on fighter screen than a bomber force so you can still have a lot of firepower in your fleet.

General (Dual) purpose just doesn't work too well other than a point filler. They die to fighters and can't stop bombers.

27 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

I dunno, I think TIE bombers are pretty great. You don't need a lot of 'em, they're cheap, and they pair wonderfully with ruthless strategists!

They're surprisingly good against aces to boot. Can't brace 1 damage... is it worth scattering 1 damage? Jan can't do crap against it either. It can really add up. And if they do die.... your opponent still had to burn through 5 hull for only 9 points instead of shooting something more valuable.

I don't think it's hard to toss 2 or 3 into a squad ball and have them pay off.

Except that they're heavy, so your opponent can just shoot something more valuable instead.

Seems like the drop in TIE bombers isn't just the Rhymer nerf, but more the introduction of Sloane. The knowledge that a hard counter exists and is popular is really the only reason I wouldn't run them. Their points-to-damage ratio against ships is one of the best in the game, right up there with the (speed 2!) B-wing and better than the Y-wing.

I feel like bombers fit in the same category as victory destroyers, used to be good, these days just can’t keep up with the new trends. Bomber balls to a hit with rhymer another one with Sloane and well if you’ve noticed all the cool stuff in the current wave, much of which is anti squad. They might be the most points efficient damage dealer in the game but that doesn’t translate to the table.

Happt to be proven wrong. Feel free to tag me in the results when someone takes out a regional with a bunch of bombers and a victory star destroyer and I’ll go find the edit button!

1 hour ago, Valca said:

Except that they're heavy, so your opponent can just shoot something more valuable instead.

Unless you run them with Valen!

7 minutes ago, themightyhedgehog said:

Unless you run them with Valen!

I did this at worlds last year and it worked mighty fine. HOWEVER that ended with sloane. There used to be a downside to taking 6 dice interceptors and all the tie aces. Sloane is what took Rhymer bombers from the game, not the nerf, in the opinion of someone that ran bombers a lot.

Plus, now those ties hit just as hard as tie bombers (statistically, of course you can crit fish on bobmers) and have a nifty special ability to boot. When you invest in tie bombers, you build infrastructure to activate them. When you build the infrastructure to activate them, you lower your ship threat. Which means keeping those bombers alive is too important to run them in an atmosphere where a squadron superiority build can match your anti-ship damage.

When the Imps get a bomber Admiral variant of Sloane, they might come back. For right now, there is simply no reason not to take Sloane as Imperials if you want to play squadrons (unless you want to play Rogues)

Edit- Like maybe an admiral with a Salvation effect for bombers, where crits count for 2 damage and you get to reroll blanks.

...says the guy running Motti ?

If you want enemy fighters dead, hands down TIE interceptors are the best fighter to do it. With four blues they either get good hits or have accuracy to stop aces from using defensive tokens (with a higher chance than the TIE/D). Counter and swarm are also advantages over the TIE/D in assisting the fighter in killing any squadron it encounters. No matter they are 3 hull, they hit hard on the alpha strike and go as far as they can before they die.

The trick to using TIE bombers against fighters is to combine it with ruthless strategists and something like Flight controllers. Both on a Quasar means they throw two dice on the attack, can tank the damage to hang around for a while, and then soak up shots to auto-kill enemy fighters with unblockable damage. TIE bombers are two things: the bomber keyword and hull.

I'd rate Firesprays still being very deadly because you don't need the infrastructure for Relay to make them autonomous. For lists that don't want to bother with carrier commands and setting all of that up, Firesprays and Aggressors still do the job pretty well. My ARQ battery enjoys the support I get out of Firesrays acting as a fighter screen and following up on the mauling my ARQs dish out against approaching targets.

There is potential in the TIE Phantoms if you go out of your way to practice with them. That gimmick is hard to see though, but I know they can be flown well if you have the timing of their engagement down.

Just now, Green Knight said:

...says the guy running Motti ?

6 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

there is simply no reason not to take Sloane as Imperials if you want to play squadrons (unless you want to play Rogues)

I can't help I love Morna

2 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

I can't help I love Morna

She's so good! She's the Hera of the Empire. Off-puttingly expensive, but once you get her on the table, zounds!

Just now, Ardaedhel said:

She's so good! She's the Hera of the Empire. Off-puttingly expensive, but once you get her on the table, zounds!

My monster trucks fleet has Hera. I'm so excited to field her again.