2 minutes ago, Brikhause said:

Sorry that should have been sensor net not superior position.

So the list feels like a cakewalk though? Have you faced an Ackbar death pickle list before?

A list doesn't win or lose games. A list plus its objectives does. Against the provided list, with the objectives originally listed, no, I wouldn't have had any problem against it - I run 134 pts of squadrons (or dang near it), and bring Superior Positions myself nearly all the time.

Sensor Net...is a different story. Especially with that many activations. That would be...pretty annoying.

48 minutes ago, Brikhause said:

I believe the list I posted above is the accurate one.

Again here I think the discrepancy is the player. A well flown Ackbar death pickle with proper defensive and support builds will be a pain in the **** to take down, as well as intercept.

Again do I think it unbeatable? Heck no, I also don’t think it is as easy as saying BT/Avenger + 5 activations and boom win. Could a BT/Avenger best it? Heck yeah it can!

As you said the game is not played in a Vacuum. The games I witness I see ISD’s just fold to the death pickle before the ISD can get a solid shot. So I just think the the death pickle has the better chance all things being equal.

Yeah I realised most of my response isn't relevant now that i've seen the actual list. It looks solid absolutely but hardly worth the rage and attacks on the player its generating that's just sad for our game. Never yet seen a list that can't be countered

8 minutes ago, beefcake4000 said:

Yeah I realised most of my response isn't relevant now that i've seen the actual list. It looks solid absolutely but hardly worth the rage and attacks on the player its generating that's just sad for our game. Never yet seen a list that can't be countered

I agree I wasn’t trying to slander it I think it was a good list. And it was flown by a good player. Nuff said. I was trying to point out that it is very easy to look at a list and think oh I can take that on. Never understate a tuned list flown by a good player. There is a reason they won with it. You need to find that reason to beat it.

2 hours ago, SkyCake said:

ive found sensor net to be the least worse option...

This.

You know where they'll be, now swoop in and kill the whale.

You haven't forgotten how to kill an ackbar mc80?

54 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

You haven't forgotten how to kill an ackbar mc80?

This is what I think every time I see this list held up as some unassailable paragon of cheesiness.

Did you all forget how to fly into this thing's front arc and blow it the **** up just because it is going last...? I mean, I get that a well-flown MC80 is strong, but it's not that strong, especially with literally zero off-threat to herd you where it wants you.

I haven't played this particular guy with this particular list, so I'm reticent to pooh-pooh it too hard, but... I mean, Demolisher or Admonition to the face is still a thing, especially with advanced gunnery on the table. I can't help but feel like this meme of AG MC80's being completely indomitable has maybe gone a little too far...

1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

This is what I think every time I see this list held up as some unassailable paragon of cheesiness.

Did you all forget how to fly into this thing's front arc and blow it the **** up just because it is going last...? I mean, I get that a well-flown MC80 is strong, but it's not that strong, especially with literally zero off-threat to herd you where it wants you.

I haven't played this particular guy with this particular list, so I'm reticent to pooh-pooh it too hard, but... I mean, Demolisher or Admonition to the face is still a thing, especially with advanced gunnery on the table. I can't help but feel like this meme of AG MC80's being completely indomitable has maybe gone a little too far...

If the list does not have AT LEAST 6 activations (I'd love to see the full list btw) it can be last/first exploited to death.

Not saying it's EASY. Not by a long shot, but a trade of Demo/Admo in a AG game is definitely a possibility, coupled with fire from something long-range/relay-bombers etc.

Then again with good objective play, squad play and use of activations, this can be a really good list. That's why I say I like it.

3 hours ago, Brikhause said:

I believe it was this:

Ackbar Death Pickle List (385/400)
Rebels - Author: Everret

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Objectives: Advanced Gunnery, Fire Lanes, Sensor net

[flagship] MC80 Assault Cruiser (114)
- Admiral Ackbar (38)
- Defiance (5)
- Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
- Advanced Projectors (6)
- Leading Shots (4)
- Lando Calrissian (4)
- Engine Techs (8)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
= 190 total points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
- Repair Crews (4)
= 22 total points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
- Repair Crews (4)
= 22 total points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
- Comms Net (2)
= 20 total points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
- Comms Net (2)
= 20 total points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
- Quantum Storm (1)
- Jamming Field (2)
= 21 total points

Squadrons (90/134):
2x X-Wing Squadron (26)
1x Moldy Crow - Jan Ors (19)
3x VCX-100 Freighter (45)

Good luck last firsting that GK

5 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Good luck last firsting that GK

I did it vs @CaribbeanNinja on Vassal - except he cheated and took both XI7 & QBT w/o even paying for both

Anyway I moved the ISD up into his front, took some fire, then popped a flotilla and did 14 dmg from the ISD, discarding his brace.

Kind of cheated myself, as this was a Cymoon

Now Demo could do it's thing.

Edit: Ninja had ECM. Wo ECM he would just have died to the ISD alone.

I might add that, in addition to some list confusion, Ninja didn't have enough play time with the list. He made some sub-optimal choices (like allowing 3 of my flots to set up blocks for the MC80 and not using his own flots to block Demo correctly). On the other hand, with Sensor Net, it's entirely possible to use said Cymmon to pick down a flotilla or two, then wipe out the MC80.

5 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Not saying it's EASY. Not by a long shot, but a trade of Demo/Admo in a AG game is definitely a possibility, coupled with fire from something long-range/relay-bombers etc.

There you go, you said it better than I did.

The point I'm driving at is not that the fleet is a pushover, at all. It's that, in order to place this well with it, there is a strong component of player skill in play as well.

5 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Good luck last firsting that GK

You already know I can.

17 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Edit: Ninja had ECM. Wo ECM he would just have died to the ISD alone.

Oh wow, I didn't even notice that thing didn't bring ECM.

This just reinforces my headcanon that cores, CR90's, and AF2's shipped to the eastern half of the US don't come with H9's.

8 hours ago, geek19 said:

I can just start making up lists if you want. It's in my car but sure, let's make s*** up!

1st Ackbar

2nd Konstantine

3rd Ackbar

4th Holdo

5th Eisenhower

6th General Disarray

7th Ozzel

8th Piett

9th Prince's Purple Rain album

10th Sir Not Appearing in this Film

You forgot “11th Private Mal Practice”

Folks, let me point out just a couple of things about this list:

flagship] MC80 Assault Cruiser (114)
- Admiral Ackbar (38)
- Defiance (5)
- Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
- Advanced Projectors (6)
- Leading Shots (4)
- Lando Calrissian (4)
- Engine Techs (8)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
= 190 total points

1,)Who needs to brace when you have lando and then ap the rest of what sticks?

2.) On top of this the rbd, and two repair crews whipe away what dmg you did get through. Your talking about having to kill it on one run, and for that i say see point 1.)

it's a good list flown by a good player. Beatable? Yeah, I've seen it beaten, but not how you think.

Theory crafting and spitballing is fun, Just stop the negativity. Its just another list. Its not like it's 2+3 evil.... (That was a dig at @Brikhause And Justin j...?)

Wave heaven will heal all wounds....

Interesting list. Takes a lot of coordination to fly it well so congrats. Is it beatable sure but you have to be willing to bring some kind of strategic forces of your own and have high activations.

Will intensify firepower Cymoon ISD take out flotillas sure they have a chance but not a good one without H9s. Having taken ackbar shots with defiance and leading shots the odds of me killing a flotilla at range with one shot is slim, even with leading shots on the defiance die.

1 hour ago, moodswing5537 said:

Folks, let me point out just a couple of things about this list:

flagship] MC80 Assault Cruiser (114)
- Admiral Ackbar (38)
- Defiance (5)
- Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
- Advanced Projectors (6)
- Leading Shots (4)
- Lando Calrissian (4)
- Engine Techs (8)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
= 190 total points

1,)Who needs to brace when you have lando and then ap the rest of what sticks?

2.) On top of this the rbd, and two repair crews whipe away what dmg you did get through. Your talking about having to kill it on one run, and for that i say see point 1.)

it's a good list flown by a good player. Beatable? Yeah, I've seen it beaten, but not how you think.

Theory crafting and spitballing is fun, Just stop the negativity. Its just another list. Its not like it's 2+3 evil.... (That was a dig at @Brikhause And Justin j...?)

Wave heaven will heal all wounds....

AP lets you move exactly 1 dmg when hit by XI7.

8 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

AP lets you move exactly 1 dmg when hit by XI7.

Now now, cant keep up these arguments. Are you running h9s like Ard suggests or X17's? Cant be both.

6 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

AP lets you move exactly 1 dmg when hit by XI7.

Okay, but what about the rest of the post....Lando, repair crews, RBD, etc. Not everyone is sporting BT/Avenger out there. In fact, with the new tools in wave heaven, I bet it gets moth balled, honestly.

23 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

Okay, but what about the rest of the post....Lando, repair crews, RBD, etc. Not everyone is sporting BT/Avenger out there. In fact, with the new tools in wave heaven, I bet it gets moth balled, honestly.

I did spot everything. And noted it was a lovely list. The ECM comment was in relation to my specific build only. AP or ECM. Depends on what you're most likely to face/afraid of.

31 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Now now, cant keep up these arguments. Are you running h9s like Ard suggests or X17's? Cant be both.

No H9 for me. Although with the Cymoon I CAN do both

4 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

No H9 for me. Although with the Cymoon I CAN do both

And liberties also can take on this list quite well. But are underused.

Will say it was weird to me how little I used my ECMs. Our local meta is so slanted towards large ships that not taking ECMs when they are an option is nearly suicidal. The regionals had me facing a lot of smaller ships than I had thought. I think total it was...

6 Transport

2 Hammerheads

1 Nebulon

4 MC30s

2 Peltas

3 AFmk2B

1 Liberty

So ECM didn’t do so much

32 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

And liberties also can take on this list quite well. But are underused.

A Raddus Liberty in particular is well set up to do so.

10th, 28 points, mov???

Hunchback v3 /B (400/400)
========================
MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 + 68)
+ Admiral Ackbar (38)
+ Electronic Countermeasures (7)
+ Leading Shots (4)
+ Engine Techs (8)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
+ Defiance (5)
MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 17)
+ Ordnance Experts (4)
+ External Racks (3)
+ Enhanced Armament (10)
MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 17)
+ Ordnance Experts (4)
+ External Racks (3)
+ Enhanced Armament (10)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

Advanced Gunnery, Fleet Ambush, Solar Corona

Was well more than pleased with the performance of this list for being finalized at 2am day of. With only three games of practice with the basic setup. I've been playing with the Defiance basically since the wave 6 drop, so it was familiar territory. Spent a month preparing for this tourney with a friend (he did alright too, we both went 3-1) We had, apparently accurately, anticipated that this event would be a final drift away from the squadron meta, and as the both of us are normally acehole players (sorry) we prepped as such. I know I could have done a little better, but cest la vie. I played the whole event on three hours of sleep, another three hours of driving, and gratuitous amounts of coffee graciously provided by the hosting store, (which is an awesome store with awesome folks, please support their buisness lots and lots!)and this was the first Armada tournament I actually played in, instead of just hosted, so there was a ton of 'getting the feel' to catch up on. All my opponents were cool, only had one bad game and it was entirely my stupid, tired butts fault. Only weirdness to the meta I saw? Folks kept playing Advanced Gunnery into Dreadnought MC80 builds all day. Like it was absolutely insanity. We joked last day of practice while discussing objectives that we had to take it, but laughed it off as after months of experience with it surely no one would ever take it and let us 'live the dream' that objective is. Round one guy actually changed his mind from my OK objective, Corona, to gunnery. I rightly 10-1 got the game after scuttling his Avenger. A later round, against a Sloan fleet I was given first, and he had gunnery in his pool, I didn't even read the others. Tabled that player turn four. Only to hear that all the other Defiance builds were also getting to play Gunnery games... I'm speechless. Absolutely insanity. Weirdest result I could have imagined.

12 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

This is what I think every time I see this list held up as some unassailable paragon of cheesiness.

Did you all forget how to fly into this thing's front arc and blow it the **** up just because it is going last...? I mean, I get that a well-flown MC80 is strong, but it's not that strong, especially with literally zero off-threat to herd you where it wants you.

I haven't played this particular guy with this particular list, so I'm reticent to pooh-pooh it too hard, but... I mean, Demolisher or Admonition to the face is still a thing, especially with advanced gunnery on the table. I can't help but feel like this meme of AG MC80's being completely indomitable has maybe gone a little too far...

It's funny but now seeing the list and seeing it has Lando I can't even imagine why it's hard to blow up the MC80 with an ISD. All you'd need is ECM so you can brace the one shot a turn he actually gets and a couple of eng tokens a turn to move the shields back to the right spot each time. What's damage is Akbar MC80 even doing to that ISD after a brace? A lot less than an ISD 1 is doing to that MC80 who won't be bracing the short range shots avenger or otherwise... The more I think about it the more I just think there's a lot of sour grapes involved here and I hope we don't see a repeat of such negativity again.