1 minute ago, Cartchan said:

Thing is here we are talking about a Regional, part of the official tournaments. Some consistency is expected.

And if there were some sort of large cash reward or it qualified you for a pro tour or something beyond some plastic swag and bragging rights then that might matter. But that's not the case. So when 93% of your attendees have voiced their opinion that they don't want their day ruined and they want their above mentioned bragging rights to not come with an asterisk of winning with a blatantly broken combo that's about to be nerfed... in that case this is the right thing.

3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

But if it's not the same, nothing bad actually happens. I agree that consistency is good, but it's not the ultimate goal. This isn't a qualifier for a $5000 purse or anything. As a TO, if I had to make a choice between the overall enjoyment of my players and adherence to a rule that FFG's own store is ignoring, it's not a hard question.

Jesus, inject that good take directly into my veins. @Biophysical THA GOD!

1 minute ago, nikk whyte said:

For a fact, I have first hand knowledge of people that paid rent on store championship winnings.

Dont assume anything. Especially that you know better about game design than anyone else. We have rules for a reason. Follow them.

Sooo...they sleeping at the store and rolled store credit into that?

You're really worked up about this. Were you going to bring Nym/Miranda to one of these events? You still can! You can even equip all the same cards!

12 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

If we’re ignoring some of the rules, then hey, let’s ignore some more.

Trip Deadeye jumpmasters are back baby.

Kinda the complete opposite.

It often happens in competitive games that particularly broken or just overly strong combos get erratad or banned. We saw Genius erratad already. There are ban-lists in Magic the Gathering. The Star Wars LCG from FFG will ban the combinations of cards. Why? Because rules aren't just there to ensure that we're all playing the same game, they're there to make sure the game is close enough to fair and balanced.

To an extent, any errata is against Rules As Written; they pretty explicitly have to break the rules as originally printed on the cards. This TO's ruling feels, to me, like a "soft errata" on Genius and Trajector Simulator. Many of the nerfs and changes we've seen in this game of X-Wing have been community-driven. Changes have begun with a demand from the community, to make the game closer to fair and more balanced. As Combo-Wing has grown in waves, we've seen more and more disruptive lists and combinations of upgrades. When the pace of official FAQs and rules updates is slow, it doesn't necessarily bother me that, with enough discussion and buy-in from the community, TOs will apply their own "soft errata" to the rules in order to improve the state of the game.

Bringing back Deadeye Jumps is entirely the opposite. That was one of the overly strong and disruptive lists. Not unbeatable, but stronger than it ought to have been relative to the rest of X-Wing. This ruling is more like "Deadeye Jumps are ruining people's fun, so you can't put Deadeye on Jumps in this tournament." Now, that can be a wrong ruling. The TO could be mistaken as to how much they ruin fun, and how many people derive fun from Jumps. At it's heart, X-Wing is a game played by a community of players to have fun. Some people's fun is finding edge cases, rules advantages. Some people's fun is winning--I certainly have fun when I win. But I think the weight of the community does matter.

And it certainly does in rules cases. There are lots of edge rulings, times when wordings are somewhat unclear, where the weight of the community does matter.

1 hour ago, BlodVargarna said:

I also liked that their TO polled the players to see what they wanted. Overwhelmingly (80-6) in favor of the new ruling.

This is key. With community-driven soft-errata, it's important that it's actually community driven.

5 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

For a fact, I have first hand knowledge of people that paid rent on store championship winnings.

Dont assume anything. Especially that you know better about game design than anyone else. We have rules for a reason. Follow them.

I definitely don't assume I know game design, but I don't have to. Nothing I've said has been about game design, it's been entirely about TOs that rule in favor if their player's enjoyment of a hobby.

As,for the individual who paid rent with SC winnings, ummmm good for them? That being said, do we want to structure everything around the population of players that happens to need a few bucks to make rent and might win them in a tournament (that they likely paid for).

2 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

For a fact, I have first hand knowledge of people that paid rent on store championship winnings.

Lol, where do these people live? A rent controlled cardboard box with easy access to a tire fire and toxic waste dump adjacency? My regionals dice wouldn't even pay my rent for more than a couple days.

Hey, while we're committing anarchy here and breaking the RAW to make the game better as we see fit, can we just make Deflective Plating good against any bomb and equitable by any ship? @Mynock Delta @Rytackle

Also, I want a Wookie Libertarians card. @catachanninja

10 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Sooo...they sleeping at the store and rolled store credit into that?

You're really worked up about this. Were you going to bring Nym/Miranda to one of these events? You still can! You can even equip all the same cards!

And it’s still really good! You just can’t Launch bombs at range 3+ And up to 90 degree angles from where you started that turn.

12 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Hey, while we're committing anarchy here and breaking the RAW to make the game better as we see fit, can we just make Deflective Plating good against any bomb and equitable by any ship? @Mynock Delta @Rytackle

Also, I want a Wookie Libertarians card. @catachanninja

Wookie Libertarians....I'm just picturing a bunch of Wookies on an old school wooden battleship in colonial war uniforms chucking bomblet generators into the ocean.

1 minute ago, viedit said:

Wookie Libertarians....I'm just picturing a bunch of Wookies on an old school wooden battleship in colonial war uniforms chucking bomblet generators into the ocean.

No bombation without agencycation!

I want a picture of Wookiees refusing to trade with Imperials.

@catachanninjaMaybe Kashyyyk produces libertarians because theres no roads, it's all trees.

15 minutes ago, abell19 said:

And it’s still really good! You just can’t Launch bombs at range 3+ And up to 90 degree angles from where you started that turn.

But if I can't throw 9 fully modified dice and do two points of autodamage from bombs before switching to turrets next turn, I feel like I might have to start bearing some of the burden of execution.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

But if I can't throw 9 fully modified dice and do two points of autodamage from bombs before switching to turrets next turn, I feel like I might have to start bearing some of the burden of execution.

Don’t forget the bomb you held last turn, so 3 autodamge and a combination of stress, ion tokens, or face up damage.

13 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

But if I can't throw 9 fully modified dice and do two points of autodamage from bombs before switching to turrets next turn, I feel like I might have to start bearing some of the burden of execution.

Who's switching to turrets next turn? I killed that first ship the initial engagement and seeking to pump another bomb and harpoon into target #2 this round! I didn't bring my extra munitions not to use them!

The problem with making the Genius/TS combo nerf, a timing issue and not simply FFG saying "We effed up, here's a FAQ with a straight nerf to the card(s)", is that in the future, a similar combo could occur, and then FFG will have written themselves into a corner.

If FFG wants to nerf Genius/TS, they should do it directly. This Kinda-sorta-maybe unofficial-but-works-at-FFG guy said something situation is frustrating.

50 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

If FFG wants to nerf Genius/TS, they should do it directly. This Kinda-sorta-maybe unofficial-but-works-at-FFG guy said something situation is frustrating.

No one disagrees with that sentiment. Unfortunately due to a combination of corporate policy and Disney licensing agreements that's likely flat out not an option. And since the good choice is off the table they're left choosing the lesser of two evils.

15 minutes ago, Makaze said:

No one disagrees with that sentiment. Unfortunately due to a combination of corporate policy and Disney licensing agreements that's likely flat out not an option. And since the good choice is off the table they're left choosing the lesser of two evils.

Or we just... play the game by the rules.

The words are clear. The difference here is that people don’t WANT them to be

1 minute ago, nikk whyte said:

The words are clear. The difference here is that people don’t WANT them to be

Correct.

But since an overwhelmingly vast majority of the people who will actually be playing the game at these events don't want them to be and not changing them will ruin a lot of people weekends (including all the people who feel forced to fly a list they hate in order to remain competitive) I'm OK with it. You're obviously not, either because you're planning to fly it and pathetically need the crutch or are so rigidly bound by a slavish devotion to rules that you entirely miss the point that the only reason those rules exist in the first place is to facilitate a fun competition.

This isn't about correct vs. incorrect it's about right vs. wrong, not the same thing and a good deal more subjective. Genius and TS working together is correct but it's also wrong for the health of the game and the enjoyment of the players at these events.

20 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Correct.

But since an overwhelmingly vast majority of the people who will actually be playing the game at these events don't want them to be and not changing them will ruin a lot of people weekends (including all the people who feel forced to fly a list they hate in order to remain competitive) I'm OK with it. You're obviously not, either because you're planning to fly it and pathetically need the crutch or are so rigidly bound by a slavish devotion to rules that you entirely miss the point that the only reason those rules exist in the first place is to facilitate a fun competition.

This isn't about correct vs. incorrect it's about right vs. wrong, not the same thing and a good deal more subjective. Genius and TS working together is correct but it's also wrong for the health of the game and the enjoyment of the players at these events.

This plus low key Dev signaling that they don't want it to work the way it does.

3 hours ago, AlexW said:

I agree. I was just pointing out to Darthlurker the problems that causes.

Kyle misunderstood the second question I think. He then clarified in the posts that TLT Crist will trigger Harpoon regardless of initiative.

Which seems like another bad call (I've seen no good reasoning from him for WHY it ignores initiative). And if you're going to change TS/Genius combo, why not just rule that TLT (and ismilar weapons) don't trigger harpooned at all? I'm guessing the original intent behind "uncancelled crit" was that they shouldnt and the card was just worded poorly so they failed to make it not work by the rules.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

If there's a group of people that want to run a tournament with pre-nerf Scouts, no skin off my nose as long as they let people know ahead of time.

At a store kit, sure. At a regional...not so much.

39 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Correct.

But since an overwhelmingly vast majority of the people who will actually be playing the game at these events don't want them to be and not changing them will ruin a lot of people weekends (including all the people who feel forced to fly a list they hate in order to remain competitive) I'm OK with it. You're obviously not, either because you're planning to fly it and pathetically need the crutch or are so rigidly bound by a slavish devotion to rules that you entirely miss the point that the only reason those rules exist in the first place is to facilitate a fun competition.

This isn't about correct vs. incorrect it's about right vs. wrong, not the same thing and a good deal more subjective. Genius and TS working together is correct but it's also wrong for the health of the game and the enjoyment of the players at these events.

It doesn’t matter what you want. If you want to make up the rules, don’t go to an official event. I want to win with x-wings, but that’s not possible, so you adjust. If you asked the vast majority in a binary poll, they probably ban TLT too.

I can’t believe I was mocked in this thread for suggesting we follow the rules. Unbelievable.

1 minute ago, nikk whyte said:

It doesn’t matter what you want. If you want to make up the rules, don’t go to an official event. I want to win with x-wings, but that’s not possible, so you adjust. If you asked the vast majority in a binary poll, they probably ban TLT too.

I can’t believe I was mocked in this thread for suggesting we follow the rules. Unbelievable.

It doesn't matter what I want, it matters what we want. If the community as a whole agrees on something, backed up by a concurrent opinion from an "official adjacent" source then

I'm not sure that's true. I think TLT is problematic for a variety of reasons both in terms of power and rules interactions and as a result likely needs a tweek. But I wouldn't be for banning it outright for a variety of reasons (nor is that what's being done here, both Genius and TS individually are still perfectly legal). I can't know for certain without said poll but I feel like the numbers wouldn't be anywhere close to 93% in favor as was the case here.

You're being mocked, and rightly so in my opinion, for placing the "virtue" of blind adherence to the rules over fun. Since the only reason for the existence of the rules and our communities shared agreement to follow them is for the purpose of fun that's backwards to put it mildly. When the rules get in the way of my fun then that's a problem with me, when the rules get the way of our fun then that's a problem with the rules and as such they should be adjusted. I don't expect you to understand that since you're clearly just one of those people to whom following the rules is an end in and of itself.

3 hours ago, Biophysical said:

But if I can't throw 9 fully modified dice and do two points of autodamage from bombs before switching to turrets next turn, I feel like I might have to start bearing some of the burden of execution.

Is there any possible way to "favorite" a post?

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

Is there any possible way to "favorite" a post?

Put it in your signature and say "this is my favorite post".

8 minutes ago, Makaze said:

It doesn't matter what I want, it matters what we want. If the community as a whole agrees on something, backed up by a concurrent opinion from an "official adjacent" source then

I'm not sure that's true. I think TLT is problematic for a variety of reasons both in terms of power and rules interactions and as a result likely needs a tweek. But I wouldn't be for banning it outright for a variety of reasons (nor is that what's being done here, both Genius and TS individually are still perfectly legal). I can't know for certain without said poll but I feel like the numbers wouldn't be anywhere close to 93% in favor as was the case here.

You're being mocked, and rightly so in my opinion, for placing the "virtue" of blind adherence to the rules over fun. Since the only reason for the existence of the rules and our communities shared agreement to follow them is for the purpose of fun that's backwards to put it mildly. When the rules get in the way of my fun then that's a problem with me, when the rules get the way of our fun then that's a problem with the rules and as such they should be adjusted. I don't expect you to understand that since you're clearly just one of those people to whom following the rules is an end in and of itself.

It’s not up to the community to decide what rules WILL be adjusted. We can discuss, and posit what SHOULD be adjusted all day. These are just wants. They are not the basis on which we can effectively change any rule. As a TO, my job is to enforce the rules. We did this with intentional draws. They had to be allowed, fun be damned.