5 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

...but they may have the effect of diluting tournament data that FFG uses to determine...

If only... I highly doubt that FFG uses actual data. As someone who enjoys doing it: it takes quite some time to prepare everything. I strongly doubt they use listjuggler, and I do not have much faith that Tome supports a better internal solution.

26 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

the argument given is that Simulator and Genius both replace the normal bomb drop and therefore cannot be stacked. This is just plain wrong

"Genius" has no "instead of" text like Simulator does

Yes, it's very clear RAW:

1. Perform a maneuver
2. Genius allows you to drop a bomb after the maneuver
3. TS allows you now to launch the bomb instead of dropping it

There's no doubt that it sucks. But there's also no doubt that it's RAW

6 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Maverick ruling are one thing, maverick rulings in FFG's own game center is another!

What about just plain Maverick?

More power to him!

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

If only... I highly doubt that FFG uses actual data. As someone who enjoys doing it: it takes quite some time to prepare everything. I strongly doubt they use listjuggler, and I do not have much faith that Tome supports a better internal solution.

Yes, it's very clear RAW:

1. Perform a maneuver
2. Genius allows you to drop a bomb after the maneuver
3. TS allows you now to launch the bomb instead of dropping it

There's no doubt that it sucks. But there's also no doubt that it's RAW

1 minute ago, gennataos said:

More power to him!

Yup, Kyle always runs a great event. Looking forward to playing in a wholesome tournament.

33 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

No, it came from the Mashall of the event. When confronted with evidence that RAW works to the contrary, he basically admitted that this is his opinion and he "reserves the right to revisit going forward".

Just another activist judge that is actually adding to the problem rather than helping it.

They both work for the same company. Frank/Max is literally within walking distance. Do you think that they weren't consulted on this -- at least in some form?

2 minutes ago, AlexW said:

They both work for the same company. Frank/Max is literally within walking distance. Do you think that they weren't consulted on this -- at least in some form?

While that stands to reason, the TO is going out of his way to indicate this is an ad hoc, one-off, no precedent setting ruling for this one tournament alone. Until we see alternative evidence, it seems sufficient to let the ruling be just that.

2 minutes ago, Clutterbuck said:

While that stands to reason, the TO is going out of his way to indicate this is an ad hoc, one-off, no precedent setting ruling for this one tournament alone. Until we see alternative evidence, it seems sufficient to let the ruling be just that.

As much as I want it to be official, I realize it’s exactly what it is. One ruling that happens to impact my Regionals event.

5 minutes ago, Clutterbuck said:

While that stands to reason, the TO is going out of his way to indicate this is an ad hoc, one-off, no precedent setting ruling for this one tournament alone. Until we see alternative evidence, it seems sufficient to let the ruling be just that.

Right. I'm not saying it's a permanent ruling that everyone should go with -- and I didn't mean to imply that--, but I was responding to the post about the marshal as an "activist judge" and doing this completely on his own. It's not very logical to conclude that he is doing this without some sort of permission, background knowledge, etc..

32 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Just another activist judge that is actually adding to the problem rather than helping it.

When there is a problem and the powers that be refuse to act then you get vigilantes. FFG could have avoided all of this by not releasing a blatantly obvious and broken combo or once the problem became abundantly clear swiftly taking any number of simple steps to fix it. But they did neither and this is the inevitable result. Krayts have also banned the combo for Krayt Cup and I expect more events to follow suit moving forward.

Doing nothing ensures that FFG will dither about for months on end and this entire regional season will be one giant NPE. At least now this regionals will have a chance to be decent. Unlike ours 2 days from now which if I hadn't already paid for I would seriously consider skipping since I flat out just don't want to spend my Saturday playing Nymranda literally half my games.

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Unlike ours 2 days from now which if I hadn't already paid for I would seriously consider skipping since I flat out just don't want to spend my Saturday playing Nymranda literally half my games.

You and me both brother!

This just in from Games and Stuff:

Quote

REGIONAL ATTENDEES ! ! !

The ruling on Genius / Trajectory Simulator combo, and TLT / Ion Cannon / Tractor Beam triggering based on initiative will still be as posted in the primer and here.

In fairness to everyone, I cannot, justifiably reverse the decision until there is an "Official ruling" on the interaction of the cards. Regardless of my personal opinion on the matter.

If FFG OP would have made the ruling, I would definitely have reversed the decision, however, it is currently at the TO level (even if that TO is employed by FFG), therefore, I have to go with the rules as written on the card.

Again, there are no changes to this weekend’s regional, unless FFG drops a FAQ, tweet, or calls me directly to initiate that change.

Sorry if this is not the news you wanted to hear.

~Ron

Noooooooo..... Ron could have united the clans!

5 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Noooooooo..... Ron could have united the clans!

Ron's giving it to us RAW!

1 hour ago, Rexler Brath said:

Unfortunately, yes TLTs trigger the effect. The judge has ruled that it cannot trigger the effect twice though. So if the first TLT triggers it, the card goes off between shots 1 and shots 2.

I personally think TLTs should NOT trigger the condition. It doesn't make sense and I don't think its what is intended.

It makes complete sense. When asked to check for uncancelled crits, you do so. If there are any, harpooned triggers, regardless of the attack you make.

This is in no way unclear.

10 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

It makes complete sense. When asked to check for uncancelled crits, you do so. If there are any, harpooned triggers, regardless of the attack you make.

This is in no way unclear.

Agreed, except for the timing. Canceling the tlt attack dice and harpoon conditions happen at the same time, which is why most people assume it goes by initiative.

7 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

It makes complete sense. When asked to check for uncancelled crits, you do so. If there are any, harpooned triggers, regardless of the attack you make.

This is in no way unclear.

If you think about the way harpoons work, why should TLTs, Tracker Bean, etc proc the harpoon? It does not make sense in terms of how the game works. TLT does 1 damage. It shouldn't proc harpoons. The only reason it procs harpoons is because harpoons is a poorly written card that needs to be FAQd. We won't see an FAQ for maybe 6 months b/c FFG is **** at keeping their game patched. If this was a video game, no-one would play it. Dota 2 for instance gets patches almost on a daily basis. There is no reason that x-wing can't be patched if something is OP like harpoons atm.

8 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

It makes complete sense. When asked to check for uncancelled crits, you do so. If there are any, harpooned triggers, regardless of the attack you make.

This is in no way unclear.

There is the timing window issue. You might be right, but saying it isn't unclear is oversimplifying the question. The "best" word we have from FFG states that because both the timing window for checking and canceling happens at the same time initiative comes into play.

I think that for the Genius + Trajectory Simulator controversy, the most important thing is players know beforehand how it will be ruled so they can play accordingly. Since this "ruling" came from a martial employed by FFG at their official Game Center, I would put some weight behind it, but it still isn't an official ruling. At best it sets a precedent that other TOs can chose to make a similar call based on this one. I wouldn't be at all upset if his ruling caught on, but I wouldn't fault another judge for disagreeing either.

21 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Agreed, except for the timing. Canceling the tlt attack dice and harpoon conditions happen at the same time, which is why most people assume it goes by initiative.

My understanding is that the Harpooned condition occurs at step 6.4 in the timing chart (it says when, not after), and that TLT dice cancelation is after assigning damage during step 7, and never thought that it was unclear, but obviously mine is not the only opinion.

Please forgive my ignorance here. Two questions:

TS+Genius- what is being argued? (Yes I’ve looked through some other posts, but there are a lot to go though)

TLT+Harpoon: argument is that if I roll TLT and 3 crits show, and you only roll 2 evades, that triggers harpoon?

8 minutes ago, Ccwebb said:

Please forgive my ignorance here. Two questions:

TS+Genius- what is being argued? (Yes I’ve looked through some other posts, but there are a lot to go though)

TLT+Harpoon: argument is that if I roll TLT and 3 crits show, and you only roll 2 evades, that triggers harpoon?

1. The genius discussion is if you can use trajectory simulator at the timing window of genius. In effect, can you move and then use Genius for a bomb drop and use TS to make that a launch... all after moving. RAW to me says it’s ok until it’s faq’d out in errata, FFG GC Marshall is going and doing it without an official ruling either way. (And I am glad.... I think it’s a dumb combo)

2. Essentially yes. Because of the text, the argument is they happen at same time on the timing chart, so initiative kicks in. If I have it, and I have the tlt card, i would cancel my resultant before your condition I gave you could trigger. But other way around and it would go off on you then tlt would cance dice. He’s just flat out saying doesn’t matter harpooned goes first. So if a tlt has a uncanceled crit on its roll before the dice are cancelled harpooned goes off

54 minutes ago, darthlurker said:

My understanding is that the Harpooned condition occurs at step 6.4 in the timing chart (it says when, not after), and that TLT dice cancelation is after assigning damage during step 7, and never thought that it was unclear, but obviously mine is not the only opinion.

TLT doesn’t follow the normal damage sequence.

51 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

1. The genius discussion is if you can use trajectory simulator at the timing window of genius. In effect, can you move and then use Genius for a bomb drop and use TS to make that a launch... all after moving. RAW to me says it’s ok until it’s faq’d out in errata, FFG GC Marshall is going and doing it without an official ruling either way. (And I am glad.... I think it’s a dumb combo)

2. Essentially yes. Because of the text, the argument is they happen at same time on the timing chart, so initiative kicks in. If I have it, and I have the tlt card, i would cancel my resultant before your condition I gave you could trigger. But other way around and it would go off on you then tlt would cance dice. He’s just flat out saying doesn’t matter harpooned goes first. So if a tlt has a uncanceled crit on its roll before the dice are cancelled harpooned goes off

I can understand Genuis and TS. Seems a little over powered, but it should work.

20 minutes ago, AlexW said:

TLT doesn’t follow the normal damage sequence.

However, I agree with AlexW here. TLT’s effect doesn’t finish until after all the dice are cancelled and a damage is applied. Then harpoon looks at the type of damage.

11 minutes ago, Ccwebb said:

However, I agree with AlexW here. TLT’s effect doesn’t finish until after all the dice are cancelled and a damage is applied. Then harpoon looks at the type of damage.

No, it looks for an uncancelled crit result. Not a damage of any type.

The initiative based argument is that both TLT cancels all results and harpoon checks for an uncancelled result at the same time therefor initiative determines which happens first. Whether or not TLT should set off harpoons from a balance standpoint is a separate issue, I'm just glad whether a mechanic like that works or not is not being decided by a dice roll at the start of the game.