Punishers needed the ability to launch two ordinance at a single target or drop multiple bombs to help represent their status as "super bombers". Or perhaps a title that gives them Reinforce but only on the front as they were designed to fly face first into heavily defended positions, bomb/missile/torpedo them and manage to survive the fire on the way in and then fly out to set up for another run if necessary.

I love them. I tried, repeatedly, to make a triple Punisher list work at store championships but they just don't. They need a massive offensive boost or a decent defensive boost to make them viable despite the number of indirect buffs they have received from other sources.

It’s a good question, I like the punishers and I might get around to playing them and as this thread is at page 3, I am sure without reading theough everything this point will be brought up, they are a point sink hole. Your list above has such a great example of a ship for the same cost (the Defender) that can smoke the field and burns terror in peoples hearts. I feel like they tried to make a Jack of all Traits and ended up with a master of None.

The Punisher costs too much for what it does. I love to fly Tie bombers still and having 4 of them at PS5 with cruise, crackshot, chips and extra man eats your list alive. Please don’t let me poo poo your fun time though if you love flying them keep at it.

I also want to say I think Dee from mynocks has a hand in testing them and has feelings about missing the mark on the ship. I will go back and see if I can find which Ep he was talking about them in.

On 1/18/2018 at 1:54 PM, RufusDaMan said:

Just throw us a bone, will ya? Would it be horrible if the empire had a competitive bomber?

Like a Tie ..... Bomber...

i wish they would make a ship like this.

I have been kicking around the thought of a Mutli Ship of the same kind title.

”Formation Flying” 1 point - Small Ship Only.

When you preform an action each ship of the same type at range 1-2 may take the same action for free if not stressed.

Imperals as a whole generally have lists with the same ship a bunch of times so they would benefit a lot from this and it would allow something like the Punisher to become efficient without breaking the game. If I know that max benefit comes from more ships of the same type well I really have to think about list making. IDK just a thought.

PS I hate typing on my phone and my brain is faster then my hands this morning. Sorry for typos.

4 hours ago, Cubanboy said:

I also want to say I think Dee from mynocks has a hand in testing them and has feelings about missing the mark on the ship. I will go back and see if I can find which Ep he was talking about them in.

One thing to keep in mind is that when the Punisher was in development, the hyper-offensive game we have now was not in full swing. Punishers wouldn't be erased in the engagement round, barring significant skill or variance disparity. They were never great, but before the push toward double-modded four-plus red dice, they weren't terrible. (For example, Guidance Chips did not exist yet. We can all agree that Guidance Chips actually hurt Punishers more than helped them, right?) Redline's ability to gain two TLs would have actually been a strong ability when Punishers were in development.

The game changed. Punishers (and K-wings not named Miranda) were left in the dust and detritus.

Pretty much because of the way it looks. And because it represents a lot of how I wanted the Gunboat to work at the time.

4 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

One thing to keep in mind is that when the Punisher was in development, the hyper-offensive game we have now was not in full swing. Punishers wouldn't be erased in the engagement round, barring significant skill or variance disparity. They were never great, but before the push toward double-modded four-plus red dice, they weren't terrible. (For example, Guidance Chips did not exist yet. We can all agree that Guidance Chips actually hurt Punishers more than helped them, right?) Redline's ability to gain two TLs would have actually been a strong ability when Punishers were in development.

The game changed. Punishers (and K-wings not named Miranda) were left in the dust and detritus.

You are so wrong about any K-wing being even near to the level of the Punisher.

Even without Miranda, the K-wing is a competent bomber. It has TLT, it has a crew for Sabine, and has better mobility due to SLAM. The K-Wing at it's worst, is still miles ahead of the average Punisher.

I understand you liked triple wardens, and it sucks that you can't bring them anymore... I wouldn't like if any of my preferred builds were illegal due to a FAQ change.

But don't you dare saying that the K-wing is even remotely similar to the Punisher in its capabilities. The Punisher release is a disgrace, and whoever thought it was okay should be incredibly ashamed of themselves.

9 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

Even without Miranda, the K-wing is a competent bomber. It has TLT, it has a crew for Sabine, and has better mobility due to SLAM. The K-Wing at it's worst, is still miles ahead of the average Punisher.

Sorry, but they are certainly similar. In fact, the current generic 31-point Punisher with UGR and Bomblet (for example) is probably better than the current generic K-wing (depending on load-out, 35-37 points). They both suck, relatively speaking, but the Punisher sucks slightly less.

(BTW, I have literally never played Triple Warden. I didn't hate losing a list (a list which was already not doing anything at all) ... I hated watching a stupid, unnecessary, and ineffectual change being made and applauded by certain short-sighted folks.)

2 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Sorry, but they are certainly similar. In fact, the current generic 31-point Punisher with UGR and Bomblet (for example) is probably better than the current generic K-wing (depending on load-out, 35-37 points). They both suck, relatively speaking, but the Punisher sucks slightly less.

Better in what?

Damage? no. TLT on average deals more damage, doesn't require a focus, and not to mention, its a turret.

Survivability? With LWF you can argue that, but then again, if the Punisher spends the focus for defense, it can't attack with 3 dice.

Mobility? No. Even without SLAM, the K-wing can turn sharper. While it doesn't have the K-turn, stress, yet again, removes its ability to fire UGR.

Utility? Lol. No. Crew slot. Nuff said.

Yeah, the punisher is cheaper, but a singular K-wing can still do everything it could before. It's not just the regen. That ship is a toolkit, and its good in many things.

Try playing the K-wing without SLAM, Turret and Crew. Because that's the Punisher. Don't tell me that the possibility of having UGR or trajectory simulator is so enticing. SLAM bombing is better than Trajectories, and UGR is really trash. I'd really just prefer the 3 dice attack non-imperial ships seem to get all the time.

After playing them, gotta say I'd take punishers over res bombers any goddamn day

Always knew large base bombers would be crap (4 times as likely to get bombed) but the model is lovely and crimson spec fun

But dear lord I'd give up 3 hull for a small base and reposition Any. Goddamn.Day

So hey, imo the punisher is no longer the worst "dedicated" bomber

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

After playing them, gotta say I'd take punishers over res bombers any goddamn day

Always knew large base bombers would be crap (4 times as likely to get bombed) but the model is lovely and crimson spec fun

But dear lord I'd give up 3 hull for a small base and reposition Any. Goddamn.Day

So hey, imo the punisher is no longer the worst "dedicated" bomber

The punisher's not a dedicated bomber though, it's an ordnance platform.

The res bomber is literally the only ship that just has a bomb clot and a primary weapon.

On 20/01/2018 at 6:29 AM, Vineheart01 said:

Deathrain with AdvSensor, Bombletts, Unguided, and LWF is pretty freakin' deadly, but not in any other build or any other pilot. Just another example of no matter how terrible the ship is, theres probably 1 pilot that makes it function immensely better than his/her peers (keyan, corran, vader, inquis, or nym to name a few).

Why Advanced Sensors instead of Trajectory Simulator? And even without Trajectory Simulator, why advanced sensors in general? I get that you can use Advanced Sensors to boost before dropping bomblet and barrael rolling. But then you can't use Unguided Rockets (no focus).

12 minutes ago, Rexler Brath said:

Why Advanced Sensors instead of Trajectory Simulator? And even without Trajectory Simulator, why advanced sensors in general? I get that you can use Advanced Sensors to boost before dropping bomblet and barrael rolling. But then you can't use Unguided Rockets (no focus).

This is why the Punisher needs an EPT slot. Intensity would be awesome. PTL would work with TIE mk. II.

53 minutes ago, Rexler Brath said:

Why Advanced Sensors instead of Trajectory Simulator? And even without Trajectory Simulator, why advanced sensors in general? I get that you can use Advanced Sensors to boost before dropping bomblet and barrael rolling. But then you can't use Unguided Rockets (no focus).

If you need to boost to drop the bomb, it lets you. If you don't, it makes you immune to bumps. And when you need to K turn, it gets you the focus first.

It gives you a lot of flexiblity.

TIE Mk2 is another mod competing for the mod slot - stressed Deathrain can literally never drop a bomb forward and get out of its blast radius.

Poor Punisher.

3 hours ago, Rexler Brath said:

Why Advanced Sensors instead of Trajectory Simulator? And even without Trajectory Simulator, why advanced sensors in general? I get that you can use Advanced Sensors to boost before dropping bomblet and barrael rolling. But then you can't use Unguided Rockets (no focus).

the bomb is far deadlier than unguided, and its not hard to get both.

Its also useful for bomb forward -> roll forward -> 4k (clears your bomb range) and still have a focus.