I know this has not much to do with the current discussion..But... If Defenders had access to a system or tech slot, would that make them too good?

As a majority Rebel player finally diving into the imperial faction this idea intrigues me.

I thought the same thing after seeing the latest version of nymranda.

An ion cannon tie/D next to a HLC/flechette cannon gunboat or an ion cannon aggressor could be the makings of a very good control list that can still dish out damage.

That being said the PS issue is its major flaw. You would need to master flying them in order to have any success against Nym.

1 hour ago, Archangelspiv said:

I know this has not much to do with the current discussion..But... If Defenders had access to a system or tech slot, would that make them too good?

It's pretty hard to say "too good in our current era", but FCS, Advanced Sensors, and Sensor Jammer are all awfully interesting to TIE/Ds., as are Optics, Pattern Analyzer, Primed Thrusters, Sensor Cluster.

Probsbly the biggest gains would be through FCS, because it's easy access to modified attacks. That combined with Optics or Analyzer would really open up their hard turns and make two fully modded attacks each turn pretty easy to get.

Jammer+Sensor Cluster, especially with Fleet Officer support, could make then a real bear to kill, which would also be potentially good.

1 hour ago, horsepire said:

I know Ruthlessness isn't very popular these days and I wouldn't expect many to support that choice, but without it I wonder if you have enough damage output.

The only thing about using Ruthlessness is that Nym & Miranda don't typically fly within R1 of each other. You're more likely to hurt one of your own ships.

Has anyone toyed with an Ion Cannon Lambda? It's cheap and can take some hits from a bomb or missile and still hang around.

The Defender, Starwing, Lambda and Aggressor are the Imp ships that can take non-ordnance ion abilities.

I'm considering a pair of these and maybe an Ace:

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Lightning Reflexes (1)
Advanced Homing Missiles (3)
Linked Battery (2)
Ion Cannon (3)
Advanced SLAM (2)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Total: 33

LR lets them turn around a lot faster. Linked Battery helps get that Ion get through. Adv. Homing Missiles gets under the shields.

5 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

The only thing about using Ruthlessness is that Nym & Miranda don't typically fly within R1 of each other. You're more likely to hurt one of your own ships.

Has anyone toyed with an Ion Cannon Lambda? It's cheap and can take some hits from a bomb or missile and still hang around.

The Defender, Starwing, Lambda and Aggressor are the Imp ships that can take non-ordnance ion abilities.

I'm considering a pair of these and maybe an Ace:

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Lightning Reflexes (1)
Advanced Homing Missiles (3)
Linked Battery (2)
Ion Cannon (3)
Advanced SLAM (2)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Total: 33

LR lets them turn around a lot faster. Linked Battery helps get that Ion get through. Adv. Homing Missiles gets under the shields.

The Lambda can take hits, but it can't turn around at all. If the enemy gets behind you, you're in trouble.

As for that Rho: the Advanced Homing might work against Nym and Wooks, but Miranda has no reason to indulge you by staying at R2. Poe with Black One also generally finds low-PS target locks to be adorable, like watching a baby trying to practice kung-fu.

Would errataing an evade/boost action into the title help?

Maybe up to -2 to the cost of an equipped cannon

Or something unusual like +1 PS

17 hours ago, Biophysical said:

You can fly TIE/Ds, and they're even really good against some things, but you better be really good at predicting moves. Really good.

A ship with an ion token is pretty easy to predict.:)

I've been running TIE Ds for the past few months, and I'm finding ion control to be essential. I've settled on this list, which can hold its own against Nymiranda as well as other lists:

Rexler with Adapt, TIE D, ion cannon

Maarek with VI, TIE D, ion cannon

Scimitar with Fleet Officer, intel agent, MKII, TIE Shuttle title

Having double ions is crucial against many lists. Both defenders are PS9. The Fleet Officer provides double focus so the defenders can survive a high ps alpha. Intel agent also helps with predicting maneuvers and actions.

I don't necessarily believe that I will auto-win against anything, but I also don't feel like i auto-lose either.

I am a Rebel jouster and the only Imperial ship I actually like flying is the D. I been having success with this list casually. The more I fly it the better it gets. Any suggestions for improving?

(100)

•Colonel Vessery (40) - TIE Defender
Expertise (4), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

•Countess Ryad (40) - TIE Defender
Push The Limit (3), Ion Cannon (3), TIE/D (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (20) - TIE Bomber
Unguided Rockets (2), Lightweight Frame (2)

Any suggestions for a name?

@s1ickrick

Take @hothie 's TIE Bomber with title, sans the Mk.II and I think you've got something.

Colonel Vessery (35)
Expertise (4)
Tractor Beam (1)
TIE/D (0)

Countess Ryad (34)
Push the Limit (3)
Ion Cannon (3)
TIE/D (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Fleet Officer (3)
Intelligence Agent (1)
TIE Shuttle (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I've tried the same Vess/Ryad loadout this summer but found that both ships with Ion Cannons was more consistent in keeping the enemy ionized. It also helped when trying to ionize large ships.

I don't have Fleet Officer in my collection, but I it's going on my shopping list.

Hothie's build looks good too; I've yet to fly Rexler or Maarek.

1 minute ago, Force Majeure said:

I've tried the same Vess/Ryad loadout this summer but found that both ships with Ion Cannons was more consistent in keeping the enemy ionized. It also helped when trying to ionize large ships.

I don't have Fleet Officer in my collection, but I it's going on my shopping list.

Hothie's build looks good too; I've yet to fly Rexler or Maarek.

The trouble that i and others have found is Vessery's PS makes him really difficult to fly in this meta, especially against Dash Poe, among others. I loved flying my Ruthlessness Vessery/QD squad, but the PS6 just doesn't cut it against so many repositioning lists.

With my list, the pilot abilities I consider to be icing on the cake. If I get to use them, great, but I never count on it. I have them both at PS9 so that I can strip shields/tokens with Maarek ion and primary, the Rexler's primary, then hopefully I can use Rexler's ability on his primary shot.

The TIE/D title should have either reduced the cost of the cannon, or added a systems slot. As it is it just feels a bit too expensive to truly shine (even if they are more fun).

I think there may be something to be said for Jamming Beams on the Tie/D. 1pt means you can keep the cost of the ship down. The jam token will carry over turns until being removed with a focus / evade / target lock, which means you can effectively run a lower PS ship without the same issues as the tractor beam. Do you think it's worth taking over another cannon?

I think the problem with all the lists here is PS. At PS 8 or lower, the Nym Miranda is going to blow up your highest PS defender before it gets a shot (they can get up to 12 damage on the first joust and nym miranda is going to have initiative). I tend to think if you want to survive against nym miranda, you have to use VI which sucks because the TIE/D really works well with Expertise or predator. What do you do?

Rexler Brath (37)
VI (1)
Tractor Beam (1)
TIE/D (0)

Tomax Bren (24)
Cool Hand (1)
TIE Shuttle (0)
Fleet Officer (3)

The Inquisitor (25)
TIE/v 1 (1)
VI (1)
Harpoon Missiles (4)

Guidance Chips(0)

Total: 100

This list sacrifices the EPT for VI. The rational is that if Nym Miranda jousts, this list will kill or put Miranda on a rock before Miranda can fire back. YES nym will get his harpoons off and also his bomb but the defender should be able to hold out his attack.

What happens?

• Rex takes a target lock on Miranda
• Inquisitor takes a target lock on miranda and gains an evade (thanks to title)
• Tomax gives a focus to Rex & a focus to Inquestior
• Tomax gives himself a focus or evade (probably a focus as I doubt the Rebel player would choose tomax as the target)
  • At this point, Rex and Inquisitor are fully modified + Inq has evade token)
• Nym launches his bombs damaging all 3 ships (sucks)
• Nym unloads his harpoons into the Defender or Inquisitor
  • I think Defender can survive a single harpoon
  • Inquisitor could die as he only has 4 health and with 2 damage from bombs. So his focus + evade have to really work for him
• At this point, the defender will be able to shoot. If Miranda, he will tractor her hopefully on a rock. He has full mods to make the tracker hit and his primary may have anywhere from 0 to full mods depending on how well the tractor shot went. His primary will knock down most of the shields into Miranda
• If Inq is still alive, he will shoot the harpoon at miranda. Now miranda will have zero def dice so will take the full brute of the fully modified shot (maybe no focus depending on initial attack). Miranda will most certainly lose all shields and be close to death. She will be harpooned too.
• Miranda will finish off whatever ship Nym choose to shoot triggering harpoons.
• Tomax has a 2 dice primary with focus to maybe take down the last bit of miranda.

By this stage, there is probably either a Defender + Tomax or Inq + Tomax to take on Nym.

Given that especially Nymranda is the big worry right now apparently, the TiE/D offers quite a bit of great counterplay options.

My thought went roughly in the direction of KyloRAC plus Rexler/D Ion. This takes advantage of the small base vulnerability to Ion, keeps pace at PS10 and brings its own turret against SLAM as well as enough HP vs bombs/TLT. It's basically setup -> damage -> debuff every turn.

Also leaves open a couple of points to temper with action efficiency. Point is, though, 1-agi ships have a lot of problems keeping control effects from going off, and these two ships can counteract the methods most commonly used to work around that (SLAM/perfect info reposition vs PWT and white 4K).

9 minutes ago, DampfGecko said:

Given that especially Nymranda is the big worry right now apparently, the TiE/D offers quite a bit of great counterplay options.

My thought went roughly in the direction of KyloRAC plus Rexler/D Ion. This takes advantage of the small base vulnerability to Ion, keeps pace at PS10 and brings its own turret against SLAM as well as enough HP vs bombs/TLT. It's basically setup -> damage -> debuff every turn.

Also leaves open a couple of points to temper with action efficiency. Point is, though, 1-agi ships have a lot of problems keeping control effects from going off, and these two ships can counteract the methods most commonly used to work around that (SLAM/perfect info reposition vs PWT and white 4K).

Your going to need counter measures on RAC. How do you deal with the PS advantage alpha strike that could take off your defender before it even shoots? If you put VI on the defender, how do you get mods? A single target lock isn't sufficient for 2 attacks.

14 hours ago, Malasombra said:

Everyday get more obvious that the title with a discount should be TIE/D, not X7 (or both?) because with TIE/D you even have to invest more points on a already expensive chassis.

Tie D should let you fire any cannon. HLC on ptl-D-Countess-Ryad is on par with Nym and Miranda for stupid power creep factor.

4 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

Tie D should let you fire any cannon. HLC on ptl-D-Countess-Ryad is on par with Nym and Miranda for stupid power creep factor.

Nope. TIE/D limits you to 3 point cannons . The problem with Countess is her PS. She will be blown off the board before shooting.

14 hours ago, Malasombra said:

Everyday get more obvious that the title with a discount should be TIE/D, not X7 (or both?) because with TIE/D you even have to invest more points on a already expensive chassis.

Seems kinda strange that they did it the way they did tbh. The TIE/D means you build your defenders around cannons (not cheap) while x7 lets you get a free evade.

28 minutes ago, Rexler Brath said:

Nope. TIE/D limits you to 3 point cannons . The problem with Countess is her PS. She will be blown off the board before shooting.

He said "should" let you do it, not that it actually does.

I just want Maarek with a Mangler, dammit.

16 minutes ago, impspy said:

Seems kinda strange that they did it the way they did tbh. The TIE/D means you build your defenders around cannons (not cheap) while x7 lets you get a free evade.

On the other hand, TIE/D lets gives you double attacks, with that second attack having a control element.

Vessery with Expertise and an Ion Cannon is already pretty strong. He doesn't need a 2-3 point discount on top of it.

Maybe it's time to ask for a new Defender Title, TIE/E: -3

You'll only get to shoot once per round, but you can use either primary, cannon or missile if you equip one.

Just spit-balling.

3 hours ago, Rexler Brath said:

Your going to need counter measures on RAC. How do you deal with the PS advantage alpha strike that could take off your defender before it even shoots? If you put VI on the defender, how do you get mods? A single target lock isn't sufficient for 2 attacks.

Certainly. Actually, on RAC, in this specific scenario, getting into block position with the title and Isard might be worthwhile, as it provides its admittedly weaker effect over longer time. You need to play aggressive anyway, might as well go full hog.

As for Brath- VI was indeed what I intended for both craft. As for mods, it's actually rather simple- either I've got something on my Deci that gives him that, or I simply don't get mods. Yes, that is rather obviously suboptimal, but on average, Rexler will do two damage below Range 2 (one for Ion, as it cancels itself, and one normal- 1,5 avg. hit vs the single potentially modded defense die), which combined with the ion effect is acceptable. It allwos RAC to position himself for his ability and Rexler to gain mods in the subsequent turn. Getting in Arc with Rexler, to my mind, is of such paramount importance, that mods cannot take precedent until I can safely follow the ionized victim.

Still, let's not beat around the bush here, Rexler is supposed to die for RAC to do the heavy lifting, he's just very adept at making the enemy pay for correctly focusing down RAC first.

The second thing is, of course, focus fire. Miranda absolutely needs to die first. She suffers most against Ion, usually carries Sabine and is hardest to pin down even without losses factored in. Nym, while nimble, has a comparatively worse ability to dodge arcs. This leaves open the question of munitions-based alpha strikes, to which I'd say- bring your own! If you don't focus defense, because they don't look good mathematically, preserve the bid and get, for example, Ion Torps on RAC. In a vacuum- that is, jousting opener, neither enemy ship is likely to not get Ionized, opening chances for Rexler to keep the leash tight.

9 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

Tie D should let you fire any cannon. HLC on ptl-D-Countess-Ryad is on par with Nym and Miranda for stupid power creep factor.

With the current pricing, i think TIE/D is overcosted.

But I get the fear of FFG of letting a ship with AG3 to throw 6-7 attack dice consistently. So any cannon could be too much.

The /D double tap only pays off if you: a) have mods for 2 shoots and b) can get your target in arc. I used to think a) was the biggest problem, but eversince Expertise appeared then at least for the named aces b) is the biggest issue. Considering the /D is roughly 1-2 pt too expensive would an inbuild VI = 2 PS-boost on the /D title be just about right?