I'm not quite sure how the new " Hardened Bulkheads " interact with " Garel's Honor ".

Bulkheads : " When you overlap a ship of a smaller size class (or are overlapped by a ship of a smaller size class), deal 1 fewer facedown damage card to your ship."

Garel : " When you overlap an enemy ship, the enemy ship suffers a faceup damage card instead of a facedown damage card."

It clearly seems to be the same timing. Wouldn't that mean, that first player goes first?

• So when Garel is first players ship, you would first deal a faceup damage card instead and Bulkheads do not trigger.
• But when Bulkheads is first players ship, you would first not deal a facedown damage card and then Garel couldn't deal a facedown instead.

Or would you say Garel always goes first?

What do you think? Please help!

Garel’s Honor deals a card face up, so it is not stopped by Hardened Bulkheads.

It states the card is dealt faceup instead, not to deal a face down card and then do something with it.

IMHO Garel works all the time - you are dealing a faceup instead of a facedown, not dealing a facedown and then flipping it faceup. Effectively for the overlap rules use the word faceup instead of facedown.

When Garel's does the ramming, Bulkheads do not apply because the damage is faceup. When Garel's is rammed, bulkheads DO apply - Garel's is BEING overlapped, not doing the overlapping.

14 minutes ago, Triangular said:

I'm not quite sure how the new " Hardened Bulkheads " interact with " Garel's Honor ".

Bulkheads : " When you overlap a ship of a smaller size class (or are overlapped by a ship of a smaller size class), deal 1 fewer facedown damage card to your ship."

Garel : " When you overlap an enemy ship, the enemy ship suffers a faceup damage card instead of a facedown damage card."

It clearly seems to be the same timing. Wouldn't that mean, that first player goes first?

• So when Garel is first players ship, you would first deal a faceup damage card instead and Bulkheads do not trigger.
• But when Bulkheads is first players ship, you would first not deal a facedown damage card and then Garel couldn't deal a facedown instead.

Or would you say Garel always goes first?

What do you think? Please help!

You're conflating overlapping with being overlapped, but they are not the same thing.

GH deals a face up when it is doing the overlapping, that is, when it is GH's turn and its final position would overlap another ship. In this case, HB does nothing, as it's not a face down card.

However, if the ship with HB overlaps GH, that would deal a facedown, and instead deals no damage to the HB ship.

12 minutes ago, rasproteus said:

When Garel's does the ramming, Bulkheads do not apply because the damage is faceup. When Garel's is rammed, bulkheads DO apply - Garel's is BEING overlapped, not doing the overlapping.

Fine then. All clear and sound! Thank you very much!

Oh god you managed to find a layer of timing not covered in the rules.

If Garel's said "Turn the damage card dealt by ramming face up" then bulkheads would deny it or not depending on first player, as you described.

The way garel's honour is worded sounds like it replaces a rule and should not have been formulated with "When..." at all.

3 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

You're conflating overlapping with being overlapped, but they are not the same thing.

I don't think he is. I thought the question, which came to my mind as well, was that if Bulkheads is first player and its effect resolves first, wouldn't there be no facedown card happening for GH to deal a faceup instead of ?

I wouldn't say that's completely out of the question, but then again maybe that's not how GH's logic is supposed to work. It's probably not smart to put too much weight on the instead after the whole RLB mess...

Edit: Derped. Bulkheads also applies when you are rammed.