I'm not sure this card fixes activation spam as most of the activation spam fleets have on big ship in it 5 to 6 flottlas and a large ship like death pickle. I'm going to mess around with it, but I think it could help low activation fleets in conjunction with Pryce. I do have a 3 activation fleet I at least want to try with it, but I am a bit sceptical about it, I think it's best in a 4 to 5 activation fleet only time will tell how much of an impact it will have.

1 hour ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Except....

...some people are just never happy.

Oh, c'mon, you know you'd get good use out of it on an Interdictor. That would be so delicious!

2 hours ago, Truthiness said:

Oh it would definitely make the Interdictor worth taking. You would get 3 activations for 97 points (Suppression+SA+Title). That's 32.3 points per activation. That would be the second cheapest source of activations available to Imps. ISD+Interdictor would be a 4 activation list. Alas, Gallant Haven is too much of a boogeyman to allow mediums to have access to SA.

...and it clearly wouldn't break things, per se. As noted, it would still not be the cheapest source of activations for the Empire, and it does nothing for you during setup at all. So...gosh, that would have been nice.

I guess I don't get the concern on Gallant Haven, though. I mean, sure, stalling an activation is never a bad thing - but the Rebels already have a really cheap way to stall activations in the GR75. And isn't the Gallant Haven already taking Toryn Farr?

I feel like there are better options on haven also. I think SAD was large only because of

1. The interdictor title

and

2. Design space concerns

4 minutes ago, xero989 said:

I'm not sure this card fixes activation spam as most of the activation spam fleets have on big ship in it 5 to 6 flottlas and a large ship like death pickle. I'm going to mess around with it, but I think it could help low activation fleets in conjunction with Pryce. I do have a 3 activation fleet I at least want to try with it, but I am a bit sceptical about it, I think it's best in a 4 to 5 activation fleet only time will tell how much of an impact it will have.

It should pair well with Pryce, in that you can now set Pryce for an earlier turn than otherwise expected (IE., say, 3 instead of 4) knowing that will push her to the end of any number of enemy activations - then, ideally, you'll have used that swing to kill an enemy ship or two, and now the single-activation-bump from the strategist is enough to line up your activations better going forward (when it wasn't before - but that's what Pryce was for).

13 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

I guess this depends on your frame of reference. You seem to just be calculating a ratio, whereas I'm considering opportunity cost, given an ISD. I'm also thinking of it from the pre-flotilla perspective, when large ships were depressed because Small/medium unit-fleets could out-activate them. The Flotilla came along, and made large ships much more viable, because they could not compete for activations. Also, I'm taking the ISD as a given, so I don't count it towards that second activation.

I can't (and won't - because I'm not a TR8R!) speak to the Rebel side of things, but on the Imperial side there are a lot of flotillas in order to make the ISDs possible. Now, with this unique title, I can get an extra activation for just 4 points. I can spend those other 19 points elsewhere.

It definitely helps big ships against medium and almost every small. But I am quite sure those 4 points will not substitute flotillas, not even 1. It will be "another flotilla", at 4 points.

6 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

It definitely helps big ships against medium and almost every small. But I am quite sure those 4 points will not substitute flotillas, not even 1. It will be "another flotilla", at 4 points.

Yes, I see what you're saying, but 4 points for an activation (or "another flotilla") sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

The problem is if its just “another flotilla” for 4 points we havent solved anything, just escalated the arms race.

Just now, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Yes, I see what you're saying, but 4 points for an activation (or "another flotilla") sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

I guess the real problem with the guy is that, at 4 points, literally every fleet is going to bring him. So if both sides have him, when it comes time to move when you don't want to...you both just exhaust him and you are back to where you started.

6 minutes ago, xanderf said:

I guess the real problem with the guy is that, at 4 points, literally every fleet is going to bring him. So if both sides have him, when it comes time to move when you don't want to...you both just exhaust him and you are back to where you started.

You have to pass up a LOT of attractive officers to put the adviser in there though...

plus, large ship only

16 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Oh, c'mon, you know you'd get good use out of it on an Interdictor. That would be so delicious!

I totally agree that the Interdictor was absurdly overcosted from the start. I just don't think that when they were designing this card, they were twirling their Rebel mustaches thinking "how can we screw the Interdictor even more? Muaahahaha!"

1 minute ago, xanderf said:

I guess the real problem with the guy is that, at 4 points, literally every fleet is going to bring him. So if both sides have him, when it comes time to move when you don't want to...you both just exhaust him and you are back to where you started.

No, not every fleet. It can only go on a large ship. I think it was intended to boost large ships, and offer some mitigation to flotilla spam. The latter which I thought would make you happy, since that seems to be one of your pet peeves.

Sure, it'll be a popular card, and you will have dueling Strategic Advisors. So what?

Fleets that feel they have enough activations probably won't take it over one of the other powerful useful officer upgrades. If I had a fleet with 5 activations I wouldn't. But with my 3 activations its a nice boost to 4. If my opponent takes it as well it just cancels out, and I'm glad he won't have intel officer on his large ship. win-win

Just now, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Yes, I see what you're saying, but 4 points for an activation (or "another flotilla") sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

We have to definitely agree.

I never said the card is bad. It is good. Too good. And poorly thought IMHO.

I like how they tried to deal with activation tactics with Pryce or Bail. Good ways, not easy. We could discuss a lot about them but the direction was correct.

SAd just let you play the activation war. It is not a tool to non-activation-focused fleets to fight activation-focused fleets. It is a tool to make them activation-focused, even if it is already activation-focused

If a fleet with a big ship may go up to a MSU activation level, what tax it is paying? MSUs pay their own. They could pay a cheap one but they always did. Now the 1+X fleet reached them on activations. What MSUs are going to do? Less small ships and more flotillas.

So while 1+X go to 1+X+"1", MSUs go to 0.5+X.

I think this is for flotilla lovers at the end. But that's just my thoughts. And they will depend on how effective the other tools to fight activation advantage (GT, DCs, Bail, Organa, etc.) worked. I hope to be proved wrong.

12 hours ago, xanderf said:

AKA: "Exhibit A, proving FFG hates the Interdictor with the burning fire of ten thousands suns, never dying, and so searing with hatred the husk of its sworn enemy for all eternity"

I mean, good grief, the card is already unique. Would it have broken anything to let the Interdictor take it? You might actually see them on the tables, now and then!

Um yes it would have you seen the interdictor title?

I actually really appreciate this as an option, since i just got an ISD but am pretty set on 5-activation fleets.

Unfortunate that Bail and Pryce came out in the same release, i feel like it's kinda unhealthy for them

2 hours ago, xanderf said:

I guess the real problem with the guy is that, at 4 points, literally every fleet is going to bring him. So if both sides have him, when it comes time to move when you don't want to...you both just exhaust him and you are back to where you started.

2 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

We have to definitely agree.

I never said the card is bad. It is good. Too good. And poorly thought IMHO.

I like how they tried to deal with activation tactics with Pryce or Bail. Good ways, not easy. We could discuss a lot about them but the direction was correct.

SAd just let you play the activation war. It is not a tool to non-activation-focused fleets to fight activation-focused fleets. It is a tool to make them activation-focused, even if it is already activation-focused

If a fleet with a big ship may go up to a MSU activation level, what tax it is paying? MSUs pay their own. They could pay a cheap one but they always did. Now the 1+X fleet reached them on activations. What MSUs are going to do? Less small ships and more flotillas.

So while 1+X go to 1+X+"1", MSUs go to 0.5+X.

I think this is for flotilla lovers at the end. But that's just my thoughts. And they will depend on how effective the other tools to fight activation advantage (GT, DCs, Bail, Organa, etc.) worked. I hope to be proved wrong.

2 hours ago, Madaghmire said:

The problem is if its just “another flotilla” for 4 points we havent solved anything, just escalated the arms race.

Agreed. SA is an auto include at 4 points despite taking the officer slot. I don't see a lot of competition on large ships officer slots and this is easily one of the best upgrades. But ironically, with every large ship taking SA, they become worthless. That's the only saving grace for this unique upgrade. They lose a ton of value in a mirror match, which also means you lose your officer slot. Hopefully SA kills itself off with everyone running the new large ships.

So I actually don't think SA will do anything to the game. It will be annoying for the MSU lists, but at the least it makes both lists on par for activations. Bail and Pryce are by far and away more effective because you are guaranteed the activation you want on the specified round, which helps fix the activation game. Just be sure to pick the correct round

Flotilla spam will always be a thing until FFG nerfs them with a tabling rule.

The only officer i typically like using on Large ships is Skilled First Officer.

Seriously, he's great.

16 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Thanks @Crabbok for unboxing this!

“Large ship only. When it is your turn to activate you may exhaust this card to pass your turn (your opponent activates a ship instead.)”

Unique, though.

Obviously a huge buff for dual, even triple large lists.

So yeah. Thoughts?

I'd love to have him in my VWC list...

16 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Agreed. SA is an auto include at 4 points despite taking the officer slot. I don't see a lot of competition on large ships officer slots and this is easily one of the best upgrades. But ironically, with every large ship taking SA, they become worthless. That's the only saving grace for this unique upgrade. They lose a ton of value in a mirror match, which also means you lose your officer slot. Hopefully SA kills itself off with everyone running the new large ships.

So I actually don't think SA will do anything to the game. It will be annoying for the MSU lists, but at the least it makes both lists on par for activations. Bail and Pryce are by far and away more effective because you are guaranteed the activation you want on the specified round, which helps fix the activation game. Just be sure to pick the correct round

Flotilla spam will always be a thing until FFG nerfs them with a tabling rule.

Lando? SFO?

Not taking Lando on your big point sinks is a very hard choice to make.

Every time I see Bail, I think Blail.

.....

5 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Every time I see Bail, I think Blail.

.....

I keep waiting to hear from you. All this anti-squad tech, this big ship tech! Where you at?!

Just now, Madaghmire said:

I keep waiting to hear from you. All this anti-squad tech, this big ship tech! Where you at?!

I was told to git gud again. So I'm currently contemplating that. (For serious, I saw some remarks that were making me rather angry and I decided to step back. Though, even now in retrospect, I think I was right to be angry about them.)

---

Short answer, it seems to be a step in the right direction: You will need a light screen STILL to utilize these tools, like EWS (since it only blocks one side). Since flak arrangement and covering your other sides only works part of the time. It introduces possible ship based upgrades to counter bombers, while not being a hard counter.

25 minutes ago, Tirion said:

Lando? SFO?

Lando on Admo. I don't take SFO because my commands are almost always Navs. And I run low squads which are pushed by flotillas.

Assuming your're second player with a 3-activation list-- say two x-mas tree ISDs and a gozanti-- then you're at a 3:1 activation ratio. Also assuming you activate your gozanti first, then you've got a pool of three potential targets to go after with your ISD's.

Throw in another gozanti and lose some ornaments, and all of a sudden you're activating 2 of your gozanti's to 4 of your opponent's ships. To me, the value in lining up shots for ships you've heavily invested in is tremendous-- it also opens up the meta-- like a lot.

On a side note, these cards are a positive response by FFG imo. The upgrades address a major concern about a core mechanic of the game in an intuitive way. Who knows, changing the core rules themselves might have damaged the game (e.g. integrating a pass rule akin to Imperial Assault). I am confident a lot of play testing was done, and am excited for the future of this game.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Agreed. SA is an auto include at 4 points despite taking the officer slot. I don't see a lot of competition on large ships officer slots and this is easily one of the best upgrades. But ironically, with every large ship taking SA, they become worthless. That's the only saving grace for this unique upgrade. They lose a ton of value in a mirror match, which also means you lose your officer slot. Hopefully SA kills itself off with everyone running the new large ships.

So I actually don't think SA will do anything to the game. It will be annoying for the MSU lists, but at the least it makes both lists on par for activations. Bail and Pryce are by far and away more effective because you are guaranteed the activation you want on the specified round, which helps fix the activation game. Just be sure to pick the correct round

Flotilla spam will always be a thing until FFG nerfs them with a tabling rule.

There are sooooo many great officers that SA is hardly any auto-include. Take, for example, an ISD-I Avenger, which, despite the introduction of the Kuat, remains the best place for BT/Avenger. Are you good enough to get the Pryce timing right that you don't need SA? Or would you rather have Tua for ECM? Would you rather have the protection from Slicers that SFO offers? There's a lot of competition for the slot, which is what makes the upgrade so interesting to me. I struggle with including it constantly.