3 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

I'm still completely confused as to how his ability works.

When moving, declare you are using Dash's ability. That way you ignore obstacles and can land on a rock or debris without worrying about them in the movement phase.

Dash Pilot can't shoot on a rock though, so you you have to barrel roll off of them if you end your movement on one. You declare you are using Dash's ability to perform the roll off of the rock.

When you *WOULDN'T* use Dash's ability *Declare NOT using Dash* is if you want to barrel roll but aren't sure if you'll clear a rock. That way if you don't fit you can cancel the barrel roll and do a different action. If you didn't declare you *weren't* using his ability you would successfully complete the barrel roll and land on the rock and not be able to shoot that turn.

Clear as mud?

Thanks. Now I just have to find a place that has an Outrider in stock that's not $60!

16 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Thanks. Now I just have to find a place that has an Outrider in stock that's not $60!

I want to trade mine!

I don't like the ship at all.

How close you are to Madrid, Spain?

16 minutes ago, Malasombra said:

I want to trade mine!

I don't like the ship at all.

How close you are to Madrid, Spain?

On the other side of the pond, I'm afraid.

I don't know why, but I really want to try Eaden Vrill with Heff Tobber and something else.

7 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

On the other side of the pond, I'm afraid.

I don't know why, but I really want to try Eaden Vrill with Heff Tobber and something else.

A pity. It's still on the original box.

Dash is still competitive, but I'm really not feeling it with turrets.

15 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

My specific example noted above infers Dash is by default "on" and the player has not said anything then performed a move (because Dash is assumed on) then not said anything and performed a boost which they assumed would clear the rock but instead they landed on it. In this instance there's still an agreement that its on unless turned off, but RAW because he didn’t declare Dash the player can argue that they meant to be off.

So the question still stands in this scenario would you then be considered WAAC for making them stay on the rock because Dash was always "on"?

Edit:

I also suspect that a lot of people do want it both ways in that a single action Dash (Lone Wolf for EPT) always want dash on during movement but off during actions, whereas PTL Dash is always on during movement, mostly off during first action (though sometimes on) then on again during second action.

Neither of which I would actually be OK with.

This is what can irk me about Dash and perhaps other things. To me you either use the ability or not without having the on again, off again BS going around. If you use Dash's ability when moving then it should still be active when performing actions. This use Dash and land or a rock and then turn off Dash to test a BR only to turn it back on to try a BR or Boost somewhere else is BS to me.

23 hours ago, skotothalamos said:

And here's what I'm going to invoke if I get called to a table to judge this. There is no default state. Both players are responsible for maintaining the game. If you don't know what your opponent is doing with a required choice, you need to ask them, not try to "gotcha!" them with a judge call.

exactly. its like when people in magic try to cheat by claiming a mandatory event didnt happen if it wasnt announced.

if im playing and someone tries to be a **** about not speaking in the correct sequence or something, i ask them if theyre playing a game. if they say yes, then they need to follow the rules and relax. if they say no? well at least you know they are a crazy person

I just hate Dash with the power of a thousand suns and have since he first brought his 90's Liefeld-Pockets-Wearing Pseudo-Han Punk-*** into this game. Dash sucks.

9 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

exactly. its like when people in magic try to cheat by claiming a mandatory event didnt happen if it wasnt announced.

if im playing and someone tries to be a **** about not speaking in the correct sequence or something, i ask them if theyre playing a game. if they say yes, then they need to follow the rules and relax. if they say no? well at least you know they are a crazy person

The Dash Player broke the rules by not announcing if the ability was on or off. When this is the case, the opponent should decide the ability.

I show no mercy, as I know what 8-year-olds are capable of.

Just now, PhantomFO said:

I show no mercy, as I know what 8-year-olds are capable of.

And THIS is pod racing!!!!

16 minutes ago, Rexler Brath said:

The Dash Player broke the rules by not announcing if the ability was on or off. When this is the case, the opponent should decide the ability.

false. straight up factually wrong. the game cannot proceed until the dash player has made their decision, but unless they intentionally screw themselves over then both players know what that decision will be. any action taken by players to bypass this decision is cheating, including trying to make the decision for your opponent. read the rules

I tend to rely on my background judging MtG events. If you can restore the game state, then do it. If not, consider it a warning and move on as best as possible.

1 hour ago, gamblertuba said:

I just hate Dash with the power of a thousand suns and have since he first brought his 90's Liefeld-Pockets-Wearing Pseudo-Han Punk-*** into this game. Dash sucks.

You know, @gamblertuba , you don't have to hold back. Tell us how you really feel about Dash.

2 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

false. straight up factually wrong. the game cannot proceed until the dash player has made their decision, but unless they intentionally screw themselves over then both players know what that decision will be. any action taken by players to bypass this decision is cheating, including trying to make the decision for your opponent. read the rules

So just to clarify, by stating that the game can't proceed without the Dash player declaring on/off before every maneuver or barrel roll (or boost with EU) you are firmly against the OP's original question regarding letting his 8y/o son make a declaration at the start of the game about dash's ability being on unless specifically stating its off?

1 hour ago, Mace Windu said:

So just to clarify, by stating that the game can't proceed without the Dash player declaring on/off before every maneuver or barrel roll (or boost with EU) you are firmly against the OP's original question regarding letting his 8y/o son make a declaration at the start of the game about dash's ability being on unless specifically stating its off?

no. im saying the decision was made at the beginning of the game. if you are unsure if the decision was made, then ask.

im saying its cheating to be dishonest and pretend you dont know that youre opponent told you at the start of the game. im against a player pretending they dont know that in the hope that their dishonesty will give them an edge in competition.

pointing out the game stops if that is unclear is simply to shut down rules lawyers trying to bend the rules

3 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

no. im saying the decision was made at the beginning of the game. if you are unsure if the decision was made, then ask.

im saying its cheating to be dishonest and pretend you dont know that youre opponent told you at the start of the game. im against a player pretending they dont know that in the hope that their dishonesty will give them an edge in competition.

pointing out the game stops if that is unclear is simply to shut down rules lawyers trying to bend the rules

I guess that you are simply validating the point that by allowing the dash player to do this at the start of the game there is much more room for confusion and unhappy player experiences on either side of the table, hence whether its actually a good idea for the opponent to let the Dash player go against what the FAQ says and bend the rules to begin with.

Not saying I agree with the FAQ but it was clearly written that way to prevent these kind of issues.

Just now, Mace Windu said:

I guess that you are simply validating the point that by allowing the dash player to do this at the start of the game there is much more room for confusion and unhappy player experiences on either side of the table, hence whether its actually a good idea for the opponent to let the Dash player go against what the FAQ says and bend the rules to begin with.

Not saying I agree with the FAQ but it was clearly written that way to prevent these kind of issues.

no.

How could "it is this way 100% of the time" be any clearer?

If you're pretending thats unclear, it sounds like you are trying to create confusion where it doesnt exist.

dont be a poor sport dude, its a game. you dont need to manipulate rules to win

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

no.

How could "it is this way 100% of the time" be any clearer?

If you're pretending thats unclear, it sounds like you are trying to create confusion where it doesnt exist.

dont be a poor sport dude, its a game. you dont need to manipulate rules to win

I'm not arguing its unclear, I'm saying that holding them steadfast to their decision later in the game when they accidentally barrel roll onto a rock without turning dash off creates a really mirky rules situation.

Also theres no need to be calling me a bad sport, I'm the one letting you bend the rules by not adhering to the FAQ, that far more generous than many would allow.

6 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

I'm not arguing its unclear, I'm saying that holding them steadfast to their decision later in the game when they accidentally barrel roll onto a rock without turning dash off creates a really mirky rules situation.

Also theres no need to be calling me a bad sport, I'm the one letting you bend the rules by not adhering to the FAQ, that far more generous than many would allow.

ha, ok. "letting"... "allow"... are you the boss of X-wing? and you are being a poor sport by saying its okay to wait for an 8 year old to slip so you could call a judge over.

The rules say the Dash player decides. if the dash player decides that it is always ____ unless they state otherwise, then thats how it is. if they fail to speak up when changing their mind, then yeah, hold them to it, but its disengenuous to pretend this is not about someone at a tournament seeing an opportunity to rules lawyer victory out of the hands of defeat.

43 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

ha, ok. "letting"... "allow"... are you the boss of X-wing? and you are being a poor sport by saying its okay to wait for an 8 year old to slip so you could call a judge over.

The rules say the Dash player decides. if the dash player decides that it is always ____ unless they state otherwise, then thats how it is. if they fail to speak up when changing their mind, then yeah, hold them to it, but its disengenuous to pretend this is not about someone at a tournament seeing an opportunity to rules lawyer victory out of the hands of defeat.

So I'm a poor sport if I insist on holding someone to the FAQ, but I'm also a poor sport because you think I'm lording it over them that I let them go against the FAQ? yeah I guess I cant win, you got me.....

And I'm hardly being disingenuous when again, you think I'm WAAC if I don't let Dash be always be on, But if I do let Dash be on always I'm also WAAC later in the game when they land on a rock without turning Dash off and try and back it up I have to hold them to their initial decision.

I really cant win in either scenario.

You know, if you just declare before each movement and before each barrel roll/boost, like the rules tell you, then there’s no issue.

7 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

You know, if you just declare before each movement and before each barrel roll/boost, like the rules tell you, then there’s no issue.

I completely agree, but I don't want to be labeled "that guy' if it all turns pear shaped.

1 hour ago, Mace Windu said:

I completely agree, but I don't want to be labeled "that guy' if it all turns pear shaped.

God forbid someone accuse me of following the rules. Bedlam in the streets. Chaos.

16 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

So just to clarify, by stating that the game can't proceed without the Dash player declaring on/off before every maneuver or barrel roll (or boost with EU) you are firmly against the OP's original question regarding letting his 8y/o son make a declaration at the start of the game about dash's ability being on unless specifically stating its off?

My (the OP) question was for fun ideas to help him reduce the negative interactions regarding Dash's ability. I said that that might be simple to declare at the beginning, but it doesn't solve the problem at hand. Good action and ability declaration is still the expectation. It devolved into a discussion of the ethics of declaring Dash's ability at the beginning. I have had been given some good ideas of how to help him develop good habits, and I have seen some good ideas of visual reminders.

Personally, the whole purpose of this thread was to reduce his risk of conflict versus those who are 'letter of the law' rather then 'spirit of the law'. I have my personal opinions on how the game should be played, but that doesn't matter. I am not pretentious enough to say that one or the other is better.