On 6/1/2018 at 3:48 AM, 2P51 said:

Disney is suffering self inflicted wounds. Whether people liked or disliked 8 is irrelevant, it split the fan base. It made $750 million less than TFA. It fell $200 million short of Disney's low ball self prediction of $1.5 billion. Everyone painted on a happy face because it still made them a lot of money at $1.3 billion, but it was a 7 alarm fire wake up call, or it should have been. Now Solo pretty likely taking a 9 figure shot in the marble bag.

The back 1/3 of R1 rewritten and shot by a different director per the people above KK. Josh Trank fired from Boba Fett cuz he was nuts. That led to Solo and the eventual firing of Lord and Miller after better than half the movie was already shot, and finally Trevorrow fired from 9 after a year in pre-production.

What's killing Star Wars is an IP being run like crap, not customers unhappy with what they're being sold.

Its not just that. Its also the unnecesary change of ship designs like a Tie Fighter having 2 seats and an atmosphere or Hyper Tracking. The Technology of Star Wars has been defined over decades and is now changed, not to improve it, but to allow boring and dilletant movie plots.

Same goes for the new charakters,

Finn is screaming like every 5 minutes and is doing everything to run from the First Order - how did he survive his basic training as a trooper, why doesnt he just follow orders if hes scared ?

Rey is a goddes, left on a planet by her parents she tought herself how to repair ships, use guns, fight with a lightsaber, use the force better than someone with 20 years of training, fly a ship and no explanation how she got all that knowledge.

Reason for all that crap, oh wait the men is the weak and woman is the strong - no problem with that but maybe add fitting backgrounds, a Stormtrooper ******** himself every 5 min isnt likely.

And Solo isnt better, instead of having L3-37 have her conversation about equal rights in the background while they talk with Lando she gets a closeup ending with a droid attacking a human inside a bar where even other humans might be shot without anyone carrying ... right.

And its totally common for a meatbag to have a relationship with a droin in the Star Wars universe - again no problem here everyone working in an emergency department knows that reality is way ahed of that, but if its so normal why the 10 min scene where a lieutenant of a syndicate has to ask how its done ? Why couldnt she and Lando just flirt in the background and everyone just ignoring it since its normal ?

Enfys Nest ... well lets see her crew yells:"release the cargo or you all die", they kill the pilot, they have the advantage and then they talk since shes a girl ... she also doent bother to talk to the syndicate lieutenant whos syndicate cut of so many tongs, and solo also doesnt give a **** about the dead pilot - but shes a girl you know ... again why do they all stare at her if its so normal ?

Why didnt Solo just say: hey we just want to get rid of our debt on the cartell and he offers to split the loot and kill the enforcers ? oh no wait shes a girl and girls are always on the good side right ? Why cant that girl be a bad *** pirate queen ?

Where are the female villans ? Why is every female in this setting the good booring girl ? What i want from Episode 9 is a female sith taking over the first order and be more cruel than anyone before ...

Or a female pilote ace. Or a female Stormtrooper deserting. Or a female Smuggler. Where are all the well trained badass woman.

Here are the 4 main problems i see with Star Wars at the moment:

1) Boring charakters without any depth.

2) Not following the technikal and Pphysical rules which have been set in movies and books since 1977

3) Changing of set charakteristiks of charakters which have been around since 1977

4) Behaving as if the fans who complain about 1-3 are idiots, racists, woman heaters.

And about the merchandise, dont know about the US but over here in germany the sales for Episode 8 and Solo are non existant. The stores took out all advertisement for it like 2 days after the launch of solo.

[Edit: Spelling sorry for that]

Your Honor, I present Exhibit A of the petulant fan.

9 hours ago, Waxfire1 said:

over here in germany the sales  for Episode  8   and Solo are non existant 

http://www.insidekino.de/DJahr/D2017.htm

Don't let reality get in the way of your arguments.

10 hours ago, Waxfire1 said:

Finn is screaming like every 5 minutes and is doing everything to run from the First Order - how did he survive his basic training as a trooper, why doesnt he just follow orders if hes scared ?

So... is Finn a STORMTROOPER or a Sewage/Sanitation Engineer? Just that one plot hole did it for me.... and as a Stormtrooper he had less knowledge of a TIE Fighter than Flinn!!! I know, it's all been said before.. I'll move along

Is Enfys Nest the marauder gang leader?... she looks what? 16? How would a 16 yr old girl in the SW universe convince grown men to be in 'her gang' - she'd have been drugged/stunned/ manacled in no time and sold to the Hutt Slave Trade for her impertinence. A 40+ woman with LIFE EXPERIENCE I'd have believed but a girl of 16? She needs to sit her SW GCSEs and think about what she's doing post-16 - you know, A levels or swoop gang apprenticeship ?

TBH i think no matter how much we rant DisLenn won't change THEIR SW Universe... I'm thankful for the OT and 1,2,3 and R1...good times

EDIT: I apologise, the actress is 19 .. just did some tinternet research...

10 hours ago, Waxfire1 said:

4) Behaving a  s if the fans who complain about 1-3 are idiots, racists, woman heaters.

Yeah, I no idea what could have given anyone that notion...

18 minutes ago, ExpandingUniverse said:

Is Enfys Nest the marauder gang leader?... she looks what? 16? How would a 16 yr old girl in the SW universe convince grown men to be in 'her gang' - she'd have been drugged/stunned/ manacled in no time and sold to the Hutt Slave Trade for her impertinence. A 40+ woman with LIFE EXPERIENCE I'd have believed but a girl of 16? She needs to sit her SW GCSEs and think about what she's doing post-16 - you know, A levels or swoop gang apprenticeship ?

...you missed the part where she outright states that she is basically is masquerading as her (presumed dead) mother? As in one one of the most classical masked hero tropes ever? Legacy? Inheritance? No bells ringing at all ?

But of course, that's not Star Wars, because Star Wars never had anything to do with pulp-era heroes or serials or anything like that.

Did Han kill a unique species when he lured the maw creature into the maw?

Solo is probably not doing gangbusters because it's just an OK film, released alongside a huge number of competitors.

It's a Boy's Own adventure serial without much depth but with plenty of fanservice, and that's perfectly fine- the whole point of the spinoffs was to explore other types of film you could make in the Star Wars universe. I don't think it's a harbinger of doom, just an indication that Star Wars isn't more special than, say, Marvel. There's Marvel blockbusters, and there's some that don't land as well. :shrug:

3 hours ago, ExpandingUniverse said:

So... is Finn a STORMTROOPER or a Sewage/Sanitation Engineer? Just that one plot hole did it for me.... and as a Stormtrooper he had less knowledge of a TIE Fighter than Flinn!!! I know, it's all been said before.. I'll move along

Is Enfys Nest the marauder gang leader?... she looks what? 16? How would a 16 yr old girl in the SW universe convince grown men to be in 'her gang' - she'd have been drugged/stunned/ manacled in no time and sold to the Hutt Slave Trade for her impertinence

You really need to watch the movie, because you are talking out of imagination °_^

Besides, Finn = Trooper, captured as child, doing labor jobs during training on starkiller base, he had been with the first order for over an decade. How many jobs did you have between 14 and 28? I mean, unless your parents just paid for your college education or you got a huge student loan to pay off instead of working your *** off to pay for university. ?

16 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

You really need to watch the movie, because you are talking out of imagination °_^

Besides, Finn = Trooper, captured as child, doing labor jobs during training on starkiller base, he had been with the first order for over an decade. How many jobs did you have between 14 and 28? I mean, unless your parents just paid for your college education or you got a huge student loan to pay off instead of working your *** off to pay for university. ?

You must have gone to school a long time ago. Tuition is to high these days to work your way through unless your stripping or some other unsavory thing.

17 hours ago, 2P51 said:

So it needs to make a **** ton more than $400 million to break even.

Well, the common thinking is a movie needs to make 2 times the budget to break even (although in film class I heard the rule was 3 times the budget). So if Solo was 250 to make, it needs to hit something in the 750-850 range to make back it's budget. Mind you, studios aren't looking for "break even", they all want a good return on their investment, so making a buck and a half profit at the box office wont cut it.

If Solo makes 900+, it'll probably be viewed as a success.

(This, of course, isn't counting the importance of sustaining the brand. More movies means more exposure means people at Star Wars land when it opens.)

14 minutes ago, Eoen said:

You must have gone to school a long time ago. Tuition is to high these days to work your way through unless your stripping or some other unsavory thing.

Actually, my wife is currently writing her master thesis. And no, she ain't stripping ... though some called her lab job unsavory considering that it's bio-engineering. ?

edit: Anyway, my point stands regardless of exploding american intuition fee's. You do a lot of stuff in your life and have a lot of jobs. Some quite different.

15 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Well, the common thinking is a movie needs to make 2 times the budget to break even (although in film class I heard the rule was 3 times the budget). So if Solo was 250 to make, it needs to hit something in the 750-850 range to make back it's budget. Mind you, studios aren't looking for "break even", they all want a good return on their investment, so making a buck and a half profit at the box office wont cut it.

If Solo makes 900+, it'll probably be viewed as a success.

(This, of course, isn't counting the importance of sustaining the brand. More movies means more exposure means people at Star Wars land when it opens.)

Solo isn't grossing $900 million. It'll be lucky to get to 500, and you don't make 9 figure movies to lose 9 figures.

9 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Solo isn't grossing $900 million. It'll be lucky to get to 500, and you don't make 9 figure movies to lose 9 figures.

Sometimes you actually do, tax evasion can work that way. °_^
Licensing deals too. Fox was doing "cheap" fantastic four movies every few years for that reason. ?

2 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Sometimes you actually do, tax evasion can work t  hat way.

This is Disney's Springtime For Hitler? Interesting. . . .

Me, I'm not worried. Unlike Universal's Dark Universe where one flop will scuttle the entire franchise, Star Wars can withstand one stumble. ****, we've seen with the DC Murderverse that you can have a string of flops (and one success, that when judged on its own and not compared to the catastrophe that was Man of Steel, was mediocre at best) and still keep churning these things out. You don't spend 4 billion to give up at your first roadblock.

(Also, I quite enjoyed the movie. Not great, not terrible - it was fine. So no complaints here.)

Meh, I find the discussion of box office returns a little pointless as it doesn't really reflect the movie's quality all that much. It was a movie that noone asked for, with terribly botched marketing and a hugely inflated price tag. If it doesn't break even, movie quality is pretty far down the list of things to blame.

It was good outing. Not great, but better than I had expected, and better than it had any right to be.

Dredd is the most criminally underrated movie of all time!

4 minutes ago, penpenpen said:

Dredd  is the most crimina  lly underrated movie of all ti  m  e   !

Seconded.

I even had a couple of EotE sessions based on it...

15 minutes ago, Desslok said:

This is Disney's Springtime For Hitler? Interesting. . . .

Me, I'm not worried. Unlike Universal's Dark Universe where one flop will scuttle the entire franchise, Star Wars can withstand one stumble. ****, we've seen with the DC Murderverse that you can have a string of flops (and one success, that when judged on its own and not compared to the catastrophe that was Man of Steel, was mediocre at best) and still keep churning these things out. You don't spend 4 billion to give up at your first roadblock.

(Also, I quite enjoyed the movie. Not great, not terrible - it was fine. So no complaints here.)

I wish I could give this an extra like for being a fellow user of the term “DC Murderverse.”

And another for acknowledging that Wonder Xena’s praise hinges on it really just being not quite as bad as its predecessors in the franchise.

4 minutes ago, Waxfire1 said:

DC at least is increasing their comic sales with the movies,

Well, no.

DC is increasing their comic sales by refocusing on the elements that were working before the New 52 initiative. The quality of the books is responsible for the increase in sales, not the release of horrible movies.

Now, you could try to make the case that the Star Wars franchise is currently in the middle of its own "New 52," or you could continue to go on a sexist rant about new tech being introduced in a franchise that's introduced new tech with each and every entry (including the ones that you're holding up as the standard). You can continue to be Exhibit A that there's a portion of the fandom that will never be pleased.

23 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Well, no.

DC is increasing their comic sales by refocusing on the elements that were working before the New 52 initiative. The quality of the books is responsible for the increase in sales, not the release of horrible movies.

Now, you could try to make the case that the Star Wars franchise is currently in the middle of its own "New 52," or you could continue to go on a sexist rant about new tech being introduced in a franchise that's introduced new tech with each and every entry (including the ones that you're holding up as the standard). You can continue to be Exhibit A that there's a portion of the fandom that will never be pleased.

Where did i sexist rant about anything. Not once did i say anything about the gender of the charakters as being bad just becouse she or he is a specific gender. I was always talking about how artifically they present their message.

And its a difference if i introduce new technologie or if i introduce new technologie that doesnt follow the "physical laws" of that scifi universe.

I also didnt "rant" about rogue one and the main charakter is female wonder why - oh yeah becouse her backstory does make sense ...

I was pleased with Rogue One so your Exhibit A crap about never being pleased is kinda getting boring. But hey you can go on pay for every crap the deliver to you and be a happy person without any standards.

7 hours ago, Desslok said:

This is Disney's Springtime For Hitler? Interesting. . . .

Me, I'm not worried. Unlike Universal's Dark Universe where one flop will scuttle the entire franchise, Star Wars can withstand one stumble. ****, we've seen with the DC Murderverse that you can have a string of flops (and one success, that when judged on its own and not compared to the catastrophe that was Man of Steel, was mediocre at best) and still keep churning these things out. You don't spend 4 billion to give up at your first roadblock.

(Also, I quite enjoyed the movie. Not great, not terrible - it was fine. So no complaints here.)

I don't think it heralds the end of Star Wars either, but a 35% drop in gross sales TFA to TLJ and what will likely best case be a 50% drop R1 to Solo isn't a positive trajectory.

23 minutes ago, Waxfire1 said:

Where did i sexist rant about anything. Not once did i say anything about the gender of the charakters as being bad just becouse she or he is a specific gender. I was always talking about how artifically they present their message.

And its a difference if i introduce new technologie or if i introduce new technologie that doesnt follow the "physical laws" of that scifi universe.

I also didnt "rant" about rogue one and the main charakter is female wonder why - oh yeah becouse her backstory does make sense ...

I was pleased with Rogue One so youe Exhibit A crap about nnever being pleased is kinda getting boring. But hey you can go on pay for every crap the deliver to you and be a happy person without any standards.

I'm sorry, I'm just having a hard time taking anything in your screeds seriously after you complained about how the backseats in the first order TIEs ruined Star Wars. You might have cogent point or two in your rantings somewhere, but unless you start putting a little effort into expressing them clearly, I'm not going to bother digging through your posts after them, given how likely it would be that the search turned out futile.

Also, while I don't like to comment on other people's spelling, particularly when it's not their first language, unless you're exacting vengeance on the english language for past slights, please consider using a spellchecker or using google translate.

4 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

I don't think it heralds the end of Star Wars either, but a 35% drop in gross sales TFA to TLJ and what will likely best case be a 50% drop R1 to Solo isn't a positive trajectory.

Maybe not positive, but also not necessarily unforeseen. TFA was the first new Star Wars movie (a sequel, not a prequel, at that) in years, the first without Lucas' involvement, and the first since the Disney purchase. Similarly, Rogue One was the first "non-episode" Star Wars movie. There's bound to be a certain curiosity factor in both.

4 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

I don't think it heralds the end of Star Wars either, but a 35% drop in gross sales TFA to TLJ and what will likely best case be a 50% drop R1 to Solo isn't a positive trajectory.

I actually agree with you, its just sad to see a hobby many had go down the hill. The movies and Star Wars will survive but it clearly lost its shiny cloak of take me away into another world. At the moment its just another SciFi movie to fill the holes between the next marvel blockbuster.

1 minute ago, Waxfire1 said:

I actually agree with you, its just sad to see a hobby many had go down the hill. The movies and Star Wars will survive but it clearly lost its shiny cloak of take me away into another world. At the moment its just another SciFi movie to fill the holes between the next marvel blockbuster.

Hope is not lost. There is a 19 month break before 9. Plenty of time to work that storyboard and polish that script up.

4 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Maybe not positive, but also not necessarily unforeseen. TFA was the first new Star Wars movie (a sequel, not a prequel, at that) in years, the first without Lucas' involvement, and the first since the Disney purchase. Similarly, Rogue One was the first "non-episode" Star Wars movie. There's bound to be a certain curiosity factor in both.

Yah, So if it was 'forseen' why is Solo taking a potentially quarter of a billion+ dollar flick in the marble bag? They didn't forsee ****, they made bad decisions.