I've seen a lot of lists lately that use Quickdraw or Kylo in the Silencer because they can become PS11 with VI. I thought I'd take a stab at making a Palp Aces list that included one of these ships. Turns out, I can use both:

Lamba Shuttle "Omicron Group Pilot", Palp, Collision Detector (29)

Tie Silencer "Kylo Ren", VI, Collision Detector, Primed Thrusters (37)

Tie/SF "Quickdraw", VI, Collision Detector, Primed Thrusters, Title, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (32)

I know that my aces dont have all the bells and whistles that you typically see with these ships, but I believe that alongside Palp, they can still be very potent. I have a 2-point bid as well, which will help against other list with PS 11 aces.

This list, with all of the Collision Detectors, will be used alongside Debris Fields. Primed Thrusters will also ensure that I will get an action, even if I move through Debris Fields. Kylo Ren's great dial and the Twin Ion Engines on Quickdraw will give me plenty of green maneuvers to clear the stress afterwards.

Palp will be used primarily for defense I think. Both of my aces put hate on the enemy ships attacking them, so putting them in harm's way isn't the end of the world, and with 6 "hit points" each, and Palp guaranteeing an evade result, they will surely survive longer than a typical ace.

I'm going to give it a try this week, but if anyone can see a huge flaw in this list, please let me know.

Quote

but if anyone can see a huge flaw in this list

Your aces are sorely lacking in the action economy department.
e.g. If you want to reposition you will have no modifiers apart from Palp and he won't save them.

Kylo needs thrusters (and PTL + Adv sensors/FCS is preferable), Quickdraw needs FCS and Lightweight Frame, those upgrades alone will do more than Palp ever will.

Here's a variant with beefier aces, more punch, an init bid, but no Palp (or Shuttle):

The Inquisitor — TIE Advanced Prototype 25
Push the Limit 3
Autothrusters 2
TIE/v1 1
Ship Total: 31

Kylo Ren (TIE Silencer) — TIE Silencer 35
Push the Limit 3
Fire-Control System 2
Advanced Optics 2
Autothrusters 2
Ship Total: 44

Nu Squadron Pilot — Alpha-class Star Wing 18
Harpoon Missiles 4
Long-Range Scanners 0
Ship Total: 22

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!163:18,-1:27:15:;286:18,36,254:-1:15:;270:-1,243:-1:24:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs

You can also swap Kylo for a cheaper QD (with PS 11) and load both aces with ordnance.

Given that you've got twin PS11, I'd strongly, strongly urge you to find the point to up Twin Ion Engine MkII to Lightweight Frame.

This isn't a classic Palp & Aces build with stacks of green tokens, but you still ultimately need to avoid fire, rather than just tank it; and without that third die, a TIE/sf folds disconcertingly quickly.

For that matter, Kylo may prove rather flimsy without autothrusters in practice.

If you want a cheaper alternative to Palp without messing up your ludicrous pilot skill, then Epsilon Ace might work - he's PS12 until he takes a hit, and would you really go for him over the two heavies?

• Epsilon Ace
  • Advanced Optics
• "Quickdraw"
  • Spec Ops Training
  • Veteran Instincts
  • Fire Control System
  • Advanced Optics
  • Lightweight Frame
• Kylo Ren
  • First Order Vanguard
  • Veteran Instincts
  • Fire Control System
  • Advanced Optics
  • Autothrusters
• 1 Point Initiative Bid

You're completely missing the point of the post, Keffisch. The post is intended to validate a Palp Aces list. Not to post a list that everyone has seen a hundred times by now. I have flown both of your suggestions, and they are strong lists. I normally run Kylo with PTL, Advanced Sensors, etc. I know how he's built. I normally run Quickdraw with VI, FCS, etc. I know how he's built as well.

Magnus, I understand your points. I am not intending to fly recklessly into my opponents ships. I intend on avoiding fire as much as possible. Also, a 1 point bid is not a large enough bid against other ace lists. Most ace lists have 2-4 points of bids.

I use Primed Thrusters on almost every ship that can take it. It allows the ship to perform manuevers that a lot of players won't anticipate. K-Turn or T-roll into a boost or barrel roll for Kylo, or S-turn or hard 1's into a barrel roll for Quickdraw. Through Debris Fields if you have to in order to benefit from the extra defense dice, but only in dire situations. Even if you do become double stressed, you can still outmanuever the opponent using greens/whites, and performing those same actions.

Palp Aces might be fine. They just did pretty well at a recent regional. Quickdraw, Inquisitor, and a Yorr shuttle, standard builds, 1 point bid.

However, I'm not sure I'd build a budget Quickdraw. Fire Control System is pretty much stapled to her for a reason, as is Lightweight Frame. Advanced Optics is also great, but might be something you could skip. Quickdraw is possibly the most powerful Imperial ship, and it seems worth using all that power. Personally, I'd start with a 34 or 36 point Quickdraw as such. With 29 into a shuttle minimum, that'd leave 35-37 towards a 3rd ship before bids. I think that'd be tight for Kylo specifically (missing Autothrusters? Oh my stars and garters!), but maybe a First Order Test Pilot (PS 6 generic) with either Adaptability or Trick Shot, FCS, Advanced Optics, and Autothrusters.

I just noticed your Primed Thrusters comment. How's this? I'd been thinking FCS, but Collision Detector and Title would be pretty interesting, since with Primed Thrusters, you'd be able to mostly ignore Debris obstacles.

• Test Pilot “Blackout” (36)
  • TIE Silencer (31), First Order Vanguard (2), Trick Shot (0), Collision Detector (0), Primed Thrusters (1), Autothrusters (2)
• “Quickdraw” (35)
  • Special Forces TIE (29), Veteran Instincts (1), Fire-Control System (2), Primed Thrusters (1), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)
• Omicron Group Pilot (29)
  • Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Collision Detector (0), Emperor Palpatine (8)

If I really want a Kylo/Palp shuttle build, I think I'd go with a cheaper ace, like Omega Leader.

I guess if you can make Palp work with weaker versions of other ships, that kind of proves something about Palp. However, I just don't think it's worth flying sub-optimal versions of the core.

39 minutes ago, Opjimus said:

Magnus, I understand your points. I am not intending to fly recklessly into my opponents ships. I intend on avoiding fire as much as possible.

Fair enough. But you're trying to do so with "just" a boost or barrel roll - a single repositioning action isn't magic, especially against opponents with turrets or wider-than-normal arcs of fire, who make up an irritatingly high proportion of likely opponents these days.

40 minutes ago, Opjimus said:

Most ace lists have 2-4 points of bids.

Fair enough. However, you're only really interested in PS11 aces lists - whilst you might have a much higher initiative bid at Ps9 or PS10, I've not seen enough PS11 lists to really comment, but most of those seem to have been Vader/Quickdraw missile fleets, and generally use up most if not all of their points.

A lot of the videos that I've watched that involve Quickdraw using her optimal build have Quickdraw running into problems if forced go before her opponent moves their ace. Quickdraw can't move as precisely when she doesn't know where the enemy ace is going to be. Then, once Quickdraw was gone, the list lost traction, and couldn't do much afterwards, because the rest of the list's ships couldn't stand up to the opponent's ace. Same thing with the Kylo lists. Kylo, with optimal build, unable to avoid as much fire as desired, would take too much damage, and the rest of the list couldn't make up for it. I've had this sort of trouble before as well, which is why I'm trying something different.

While neither my Quickdraw nor my Kylo is the go-to build, and isn't as powerful as those builds, they are both more powerful than what is typically used as a wingman.

IMO, this gives the list more flexibility than the other lists. Having the option to use red maneuvers and "just" a barrel roll or boost is a lot more powerful than people give it credit for, especially when you can do it through obstacles. The other lists I've seen can't do that. I've used Prime Thrusters a LOT, and there is a reason I prefer it over other Tech Upgrades.

In regards to turrets, I understand they can cause this list problems, but what list doesnt have problems with them? I use Autothrusters all the time, and for every time they've saved me against turrets, there have been as many times where they didn't matter (not rolling any blanks). I'm not saying don't use them, but they are far from manditory.

Same goes for FCS. It is good, very good. I would take it if I had the points, and if Collision Detector didn't synergize better with Prime Thrusters. I know why people use it on Quickdraw, but, being a veteran of using Baffledraw, I know it is also far from manditory.

I really do appreciate everyone's feedback so far. My posts are often misread as defensive or snarky. I just wanted you all to know that I am heeding all advice.

I agree that your list is too reliant on lucky dice.

Palp aces m i g h t still be viable, but not with ships like Kylo and QD who want a loadout that already trumps the value of Palp. Small aces, delicate aces, thats who Palp wants to go with. Inquisitor/Vader, perhaps, or Duchess, things like that.

I see. That makes more sense. I was just trying to get 2 aces at PS11 into a Palp List, and I also wanted to take ships with Collision Detector, Primed Thrusters, and Debris Fields. This was the only combination that I could think of.

Its not a bad attempt, just losing way too much on the aces to make them really viable. What about just dropping Palp for stronger aces?

Yorr Aces

Kylo Ren (TIE Silencer) (35)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Autothrusters (2)

"Quickdraw" (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

Captain Yorr (24)
Collision Detector (0)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Courier Droid (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I think if I'm dropping Palp, I would drop the Lambda altogether.