According to the latest results of different Regionals, this list seems to be quite a bit overpowered.

What exactly makes it so dangerous?

Is it even worse than Triple Jumps, when they still had their full modded torpedoes available?

Wait I thought Wookies and Harpoons were OP...or Palp aces...gunboats?...I'm so far behind on what needs to be nerfed

I don’t think they are overpowered as much as they are the two best ships to have to keep points over your opponent while still being effective

11 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

According to the latest results of different Regionals, this list seems to be quite a bit overpowered.

What exactly makes it so dangerous?

Is it even worse than Triple Jumps, when they still had their full modded torpedoes available?

Seems like it's a combination of things:

1) Nym using Genius to launch two Proton or Ion Bombs at PS10, with pretty good knowledge of whether they'll hit and without requiring an action.

2) Both ships being able to use Long-Range Scanners to acquire Target Locks on turn 1, with only Black One being able to thwart the ensuing Harpoons.

3) Harpoons don't require one to spend the Target Lock, allowing a highly accurate 4-die attack.

4) TLT being allowed to trigger Harpoon detonations using the RAW.

5) Typical Miranda regen.

6) Sabine adding to the damage output of all bombs.

7) They're small-based ships, so they don't give up half-points.

But still.... as long as you kill one of them, you'll probably win the match by points. Both ships are very expensive.

Why is it so hard to kill one of them? What's their strongest counter?

Triple jumps was weaker in some regards.

each jumpmaster was significantly worse than nym or miranda, but you had to deal with 3 of them. also jumps alpha striked then mopped up as opposed to trolling with tlt for 5 turns. personally i wont play against either, as opponents who dont want to play a fun game are missing the point entirely. i ussually skip this kind of net listed garbage.

You can call them 'bad', 'overpowered', 'dangerous' or 'nerf-worthy', but I have respect for the person that comes up with the list that shakes up the meta so unforgivingly. Every time a new 'OP' list is triggering people, I just like the idea that X-wing is changing.

Better analogy would be the new Dengaroo.

Those ships seem fragile, especially Nym, like 2-3 harpoons from something with Deadeye and you just killed one of them. Or punch hard and regen, like Norra, and you'll win.

What am I missing here?

6 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Those ships seem fragile, especially Nym, like 2-3 harpoons from something with Deadeye and you just killed one of them. Or punch hard and regen, like Norra, and you'll win.

What am I missing here?

Nym has 5 hull and 5 shields, and attacks first in most situations.

He has a pretty good chance of sticking you with a critical damage card thanks to his Geniused Proton Bomb, possibly causing Blinded Pilots or Weapons Malfunctions, plus another point of damage from Sabine. Then he gets to launch a Harpoon at you, potentially followed by another Harpoon from Miranda, who can spend a shield to make it a 5-die attack. If Miranda rolls a critical hit and hits with her own Harpoon, then the first one detonates to deal an additional damage to everyone within range 1. If that's enough damage to kill the target, then that's a second detonation on everyone else in range.

It's a pretty crazy alpha strike for only two ships.

No because Kylo makes it go home.

*Hint: Not the Kylo Your Thinking About...

47 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

Seems like it's a combination of things:

1) Nym using Genius to launch two Proton or Ion Bombs at PS10, with pretty good knowledge of whether they'll hit and without requiring an action.

2) Both ships being able to use Long-Range Scanners to acquire Target Locks on turn 1, with only Black One being able to thwart the ensuing Harpoons.

3) Harpoons don't require one to spend the Target Lock, allowing a highly accurate 4-die attack.

4) TLT being allowed to trigger Harpoon detonations using the RAW.

5) Typical Miranda regen.

6) Sabine adding to the damage output of all bombs.

7) They're small-based ships, so they don't give up half-points.

I like your post. After playing and seeing a lot of games, i think they are strong cause of the combination of all factors.

As i said before, trajectory is not the piece i would nerf.

But i would definitivly like a nerf to poons or miranda (can regen only from he 2 die shot for example).

Also Sabine...

FFG should maybe think about either removing the half point rule or apply it to all ships.

20 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Those ships seem fragile, especially Nym, like 2-3 harpoons from something with Deadeye and you just killed one of them. Or punch hard and regen, like Norra, and you'll win.

What am I missing here?

Experience actually facing them.

They are quite brutal. I went to regionals on Saturday and heard nymiranda described as “heinous” and “cancer”- and this was coming from 2 of the guys flying the list.

Typical round one engagement consists of Nym genius-launching a bomb for 2 unavoidable damage (1+Sabine) against 1 ship, followed up by 2 high-PS fully modded Harpoons. That’s usually enough to alpha strike something off the board.

Following that, they tend to kite/bomb as needed, with Nym dishing out obscene amounts of damage if you ignore him thanks to Traj/sim and TLTs and Harpoons, and Miranda regenerating and doing Miranda things if you ignore her. Either way, if you’re lucky enough to kill one of them then by that point half your list has probably been wrecked, and the remaining ship mops up the rest.

I flew Nymranda against a good local player last night. I am an actively poor Miranda player (I tend to get her trapped and demolished), and it was literally the first time I've flown a Scurrg. The player asked me to fly the list against him as part of his Regionals/SO prep. He was flying a QD, OL, Deadeye Rho list.

He pulled off two really good blocks, one of them resulting in good shots against Miranda. Nym soloed the Rho in two rounds ... a Bomblet for two hits, a Harpoon, then a TLT followup as the Rho desperately fled. Miranda Cluster Bombed OL, and Nym finished OL with a Bomblet. Nym did die to a perfect QD retaliation shot (and a point from his own Bomblet), but at that point it was QD with three HP versus Miranda with no damage (and unused Harpoons), and he conceded.

The game was not even close ... again, I had literally zero experience with the list, and he's been flying his list for a month. I didn't fly well, and he did. Dice were on my side, but only on the attacks against Miranda, and she ended up at full HP anyway. I tend to be a pessimistic player, constantly envisioning ways in which I can lose games, but in this game there was simply never a doubt in my mind, from the second I saw his list. Not even a flicker of any way in which I could lose.

It's an oppressive list, and it was not fun for me to fly or for him to fly against. I don't know how he felt about it, but I felt like it was an hour of my life wasted.

How does this keep happening?

If by triple jumps you mean the thing everyone is whining and crying about then yes.

- Harpoons need to be Range 1-2

- TLTs need to be FAQd to not work with Harpoons

- Bombs need to be FAQd as well. -> "Every ship can only place 1 bomb token or bomb token sets in the play area, per round."

- Nym needs to lose his EPT, like pretty much most other bombers.

Problems solved. FFG, make it happen!

4 minutes ago, Captain Pellaeon said:

- Bombs need to be FAQd as well. -> "Every ship can only place 1 bomb token or bomb token sets in the play area, per round."

I think that is already the case Captain.

4 minutes ago, tangoraven said:

I think that is already the case Captain.

But...

PhantomFO

1) Nym using Genius to launch two Proton or Ion Bombs at PS10, with pretty good knowledge of whether they'll hit and without requiring an action.

I just think that players need to get usued to, and get to counter it.

No, they're no way at the level of triple jumps.

But I hope that, at this point, FFG will take off the 50% points on large ships. It gets no sense at all in this meta. We have small ships at 50ish points, which are way more maneuvrable. I think those times were passed away, and it's time to just remove again this rule.

37 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I flew Nymranda against a good local player last night. I am an actively poor Miranda player (I tend to get her trapped and demolished), and it was literally the first time I've flown a Scurrg. The player asked me to fly the list against him as part of his Regionals/SO prep. He was flying a QD, OL, Deadeye Rho list.

He pulled off two really good blocks, one of them resulting in good shots against Miranda. Nym soloed the Rho in two rounds ... a Bomblet for two hits, a Harpoon, then a TLT followup as the Rho desperately fled. Miranda Cluster Bombed OL, and Nym finished OL with a Bomblet. Nym did die to a perfect QD retaliation shot (and a point from his own Bomblet), but at that point it was QD with three HP versus Miranda with no damage (and unused Harpoons), and he conceded.

The game was not even close ... again, I had literally zero experience with the list, and he's been flying his list for a month. I didn't fly well, and he did. Dice were on my side, but only on the attacks against Miranda, and she ended up at full HP anyway. I tend to be a pessimistic player, constantly envisioning ways in which I can lose games, but in this game there was simply never a doubt in my mind, from the second I saw his list. Not even a flicker of any way in which I could lose.

It's an oppressive list, and it was not fun for me to fly or for him to fly against. I don't know how he felt about it, but I felt like it was an hour of my life wasted.

How does this keep happening?

For what it's worth, this list is a nightmare scenario for any list featuring OL. OL is 26 points of fragile dead weight that doesn't provide much in the way of punishment to high HP/low agi lists. Even without TS this is a nightmare matchup, since the Rho can be PS killed so easily and QD/OL are going to average only 4 or so damage per turn that they both have a ship in arc.

Making a pretty good case for an alternate format with a squadbuilding rule like: No more than 1 primary weapon turret or equipped [turret] upgrade is allowed.

Not sure if mobile firing arcs should count or not, but you get the idea. Clamp down on turret spam. Get the emphasis back on jousting, with turrets being a support mechanic rather than the main show.

2 minutes ago, Cerve said:

I just think that players need to get usued to, and get to counter it.

No, they're no way at the level of triple jumps.

But I hope that, at this point, FFG will take off the 50% points on large ships. It gets no sense at all in this meta. We have small ships at 50ish points, which are way more maneuvrable. I think those times were passed away, and it's time to just remove again this rule.

I think half-points for ALL ships is the best solution. Makes dice variance matter a little less for MoV as well, since an ace licking out of a bad spot with 1hp isn't 35+ points of saved MoV anymore.

I think the few edge cases half-points on all could hurt is more than worth it to make fat regen ships less dominant.

Just now, RampancyTW said:

I think half-points for ALL ships is the best solution. Makes dice variance matter a little less for MoV as well, since an ace licking out of a bad spot with 1hp isn't 35+ points of saved MoV anymore.

I think the few edge cases half-points on all could hurt is more than worth it to make fat regen ships less dominant.

Yeah, it sounds good too. Maybe even better. 50% MoV for all the ships.

Maybe it will helps a bit to get more swarms in the game.

I think what is being seen was the Meta typical see this and swing with it. Now FFG is waiting to see if now that there is data and practice and the competitive players have seen it as an actual list and not a theory the might be poepular, what if any counter is developed. They did the same with the Jumpmaster, the problem was the count was simple another variation of the same, so they had to adjust, it didn’t do enough so they did a bit more, then finally the axe hit,, as they saw no other options. So they are seeing if it works itself out before doing something as a knee jerk reaction.

Is this as as bad as Torp scouts or other similar JMK5 list. surface says it has that potential, now it’s time to see if any counter can be made and from where.

I second the 50% for all rule change. Both the k-wing and the scurrg have more HP than an aggressor, yet you need to take them out completely for any point scored.

Lambda class, Firespray, (jm5k), similar story

Edit: poepular - typo or intentional? ^^