I really like Madine and want to take another crack at a Madine Liberty fleet after reading some other recent topics in the forums. I've been fiddling with various combinations of the Officer and 2 Turbolaser slots and settled on this. It's got a good bid, but I also feel like the MC30c's are a bit lacking in defensive capabilities. Does anyone have any better ideas? Feedback is welcome.

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 388/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 171 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 72 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 72 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)

As someone who has been doing this for a long time, the basic problem is that as you increase the upgrades on your ships, you decrease the quantity of your ships and/or squad cover.

A couple of points: If you're going to run a Star Cruiser, you can afford to go much leaner. You already get a lot of accuracies off the blue dice, so there's not much need to create more with H9 and QTC. In particular, the H9/QTC combo works best for down range red dice, and therefore is better on the Battle Cruiser, which suddenly has about a 60% chance of locking a flotilla's evade and scatter, and doing enough damage to kill it. Much more if you're Raymus CFing, though that's a hard one to get right. If you're not going to do Mon Karren, I'd do XI7 and maybe DTT on a Star. The battle cruiser can create a bit more of an anti-squad push with two black dice, and the extended threat from the reds is also big.

On the MC30s, I think they are just underupgraded to hold up. Sure, you're going to win some games because you could remove an activation with the Liberty, and then Last/First an enemy off of them. Here's a helpful piece of advice: think of your list in terms of answering questions posed by opponent's lists. How do I kill an MSU? How do I kill a large ship? How do I kill a mass squadron set-up? In this respect, I think you'll have options some of the time against MSUs, but are probably going to struggle against the ones that are really well played. You're ok against large ships, especially as first, thanks to the MC30s. Mass squadrons are the ones that I really about in your set-up.

About objectives: You won't need them much of the time, but Planetary Ion Cannons is so much better with strategic. Hyperspace Assault is what you'd want with MC30s. Superior Positions gets you far less than Solar Corona, and might back-fire into a big win for the opponent.

Ninja'd by Verg

Not much to add to that, all solid stuff.

Thanks! It looks like I've got some things to think about now.

I went with the SC/SW7 + H9/QTC combination because it gives me a guaranteed minimum 4+ damage with 2 accuracies. Is this overpriced? It seemed like a good investment to me, but I have not played this combo yet.

38 minutes ago, racknut said:

Thanks! It looks like I've got some things to think about now.

I went with the SC/SW7 + H9/QTC combination because it gives me a guaranteed minimum 4+ damage with 2 accuracies. Is this overpriced? It seemed like a good investment to me, but I have not played this combo yet.

In my opinion, quite a bit overpriced.

An SW-7, often paired with Mon Karen, can hit 7 damage reasonably, especially with a DTT or CF token, and then it stops up all but one token.

A BC with H9/QTC/LS is going to be more expensive, but will also typically hit 7 damage at medium range, while having some pretty good dice manipulation with H9/QTC, all of which become rerollable if you don't need accuracies through LS.

Your Mk/SW-7 builds can do that by shaving off 10 points of costs, whereas your BC builds will run about as much as you've got here, but will produce much better down-range results. So you're basically paying about the same cost in the end, but you're getting results that are a little behind the curve actually.

14 hours ago, Vergilius said:

In my opinion, quite a bit overpriced.

An SW-7, often paired with Mon Karen, can hit 7 damage reasonably, especially with a DTT or CF token, and then it stops up all but one token.

A BC with H9/QTC/LS is going to be more expensive, but will also typically hit 7 damage at medium range, while having some pretty good dice manipulation with H9/QTC, all of which become rerollable if you don't need accuracies through LS.

Your Mk/SW-7 builds can do that by shaving off 10 points of costs, whereas your BC builds will run about as much as you've got here, but will produce much better down-range results. So you're basically paying about the same cost in the end, but you're getting results that are a little behind the curve actually.

Ah, I see now! I had to roll some dice to run through some scenarios and fully understand all the interactions, but now I understand. Very cool. Thank you.