This time we had about a month. A month since the new wave hit the shelves. A month of experimenting, trying out interesting new ideas. A honeymoon period when for just a while it seemed like the meta was open and anything's possible.

And then it ended. Last weekend's regionals were dominated by one particular list (Nymiranda) to a degree unprecedented since the very worst days of Paratanni craziness. Not only did it win almost all of the regionals, in some cases literally 50% of the top 8 were identical clones of the very same list and it resulted in a painfully predictable set of mirror matches.

I hate to be the guy who's bitter about it, but after the rather toxic experience of last wave who's idea was it to buff Nym even more? It took literally 5 minutes after it's reveal and the community (correctly) singled out trajectory projector as a potentially problematic upgrade. And guess what - it is. Was it really that hard for devs to see it coming?

/rant over

Oh well. Sorry Kylo. You looked like fun to fly. Unfortunately your green dice won't help you against proton bombs launched by a ship that's not even in you range :/

I think the list has a couple of problematic areas. One is the interaction between Genius and Trajectory Simulator. The second is the interaction between TLT and Harpoon Missiles.

Those are both (possibly unintentionally) very strong. Couple that with the inate resilience of Miranda and Nyms ability then the control aspect of the list is really pretty remarkable.

I would be surprised if this isn’t the ‘go to’ list for a long long while to come.

21 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

Last weekend's regionals were dominated by one particular list (Nymiranda) to a degree unprecedented since the very worst days of Paratanni craziness. Not only did it win almost all of the regionals, in some cases literally 50% of the top 8 were identical clones of the very same list and it resulted in a painfully predictable set of mirror matches.

More than that - Cardiff (UK) Regionals had 7 Nymanda in the top 8. The only other one didn't make it to top 4 so it was mirror matches after that.

I think we're experiencing the typical post-drop shift in the meta. FFG seems unwilling to bring out big changes at anything other than mid-way through crucial game periods (In the Australian Nats I lost to 3 lists that were massively nerfed on the next day). I expect that within another month we'll see a much better meta.

I still have faith in the developers, and I can see what they're going for now - an equal amount of OP-ness for every strategy. Alphas, jousters, aces and turrets all have their place now.

If Nymanda is such a threat then Ion turrets are going to start popping up. Heck, even TIE/ds with Ion cannons can dominate as a nym/miranda counter. Failing ion, both tractor beams and stress can totally shut down the manoeuvrability of both ships, and negate all their upsides.

7 minutes ago, Astech said:

I think we're experiencing the typical post-drop shift in the meta. FFG seems unwilling to bring out big changes at anything other than mid-way through crucial game periods (In the Australian Nats I lost to 3 lists that were massively nerfed on the next day). I expect that within another month we'll see a much better meta.

I still have faith in the developers, and I can see what they're going for now - an equal amount of OP-ness for every strategy. Alphas, jousters, aces and turrets all have their place now.

If Nymanda is such a threat then Ion turrets are going to start popping up. Heck, even TIE/ds with Ion cannons can dominate as a nym/miranda counter. Failing ion, both tractor beams and stress can totally shut down the manoeuvrability of both ships, and negate all their upsides.

Possibly, it depends if Tie Ds / ion / stress lists don’t get filtered out before hand. Some of the traditionally most effective weapon types (TLT, bombs + Sabine and an Alpha missile) all co-exist on two pretty beefy ships. I don’t really see any current reason ‘not’ to take it.

24 minutes ago, Tam Palso said:

The second is the interaction between TLT and Harpoon Missiles.

This is good? Could it work with two TLT Aggressors and a Harpoon Gunboat and maybe a pocket ace?

2 minutes ago, Tam Palso said:

Possibly, it depends if Tie Ds / ion / stress lists don’t get filtered out before hand. Some of the traditionally most effective weapon types (TLT, bombs + Sabine and an Alpha missile) all co-exist on two pretty beefy ships. I don’t really see any current reason ‘not’ to take it.

If we're really dealing with a JM5K-like "this is definitevely better than everything else" scenario, then the meta is going to devolve into variations of it and counters. Ion simply destroys Nym, and severely hinders Miranda. Ion and stress together pretty much disable the list.

Stressbots, TIE/Ds and so on are excellent because they've also got great uses in other matchups. Both Miranda and Nym can be destroyed in a single turn of fire.

Dash is also a solid counter to both Nym and Miranda, since he can easily stay at R3 and wins the turret exchange, even against two TLTs.

12 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

This is good? Could it work with two TLT Aggressors and a Harpoon Gunboat and maybe a pocket ace?

Pretty sure it is more incidental and not a basis for a squad. Worth a try, but Miranda and Nym are so much more solid chassis than TIE Agressors that it probably won't pay off.

35 minutes ago, Astech said:

If we're really dealing with a JM5K-like "this is definitevely better than everything else" scenario, then the meta is going to devolve into variations of it and counters. Ion simply destroys Nym, and severely hinders Miranda. Ion and stress together pretty much disable the list.

Stressbots, TIE/Ds and so on are excellent because they've also got great uses in other matchups. Both Miranda and Nym can be destroyed in a single turn of fire.

Dash is also a solid counter to both Nym and Miranda, since he can easily stay at R3 and wins the turret exchange, even against two TLTs.

I’d agree Dash is pretty solid, have seen a few DashNym archetypes doing fairly well which supports that.

You could be right on stress/ion combo I guess we won’t know until we see a few more results as the year progresses. What squads have you had the most success with so far against NymMiranda?

Could FFG be ruining their own competitive game? I mean if you know you have to take X List to be competetive, then it will probably just be a mirror anyway, would you even go to events?

Because you can take the thing that counters it ... or the counter to the counter ... the trick is in finding something that can counter the bogeyman that doesn't fold to the rest of the field.

Right now a forerunner appears to be Kanan Fenn ... it can neuter the offense, boosting to range 1 and deploying both pilot abilities before unloading the Ghost's primary weapon into the 1 agi ships all the while merrily eating bombs with its enormous hull value.

7 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

Could FFG be ruining their own competitive game? I mean if you know you have to take X List to be competetive, then it will probably just be a mirror anyway, would you even go to events?

No. In a competitive environment, people will naturally try to tailor their squad for maximum efficiency, and when results come in people will then naturally gravitate towards proven, successful lists. If you're going to blame anything for stifling diversity in the competitive game, blame the internet.

Just now, FTS Gecko said:

No. In a competitive environment, people will naturally try to tailor their squad for maximum efficiency, and when results come in people will then naturally gravitate towards proven, successful lists. If you're going to blame anything for stifling diversity in the competitive game, blame the internet.

Not blaming anything, just a thought.

Guys, it’s not really over.... Palp Aces just won a System Open AND a Hyperspace Qualifier, with no losses at all.

Just now, Archangelspiv said:

Not blaming anything, just a thought.

Don't worry, I was posting tongue firmly in cheek.

1. Which of these things do you not enjoy flying against?

A) TLT

B) trajectory bombs

C) Harpoons

D) Regen

E) all of the above aka Nym Miranda

But in all seriousness, it’s just going to take a bit to adapt. Miranda Nym is not very much fun to fly against for the listed reasons, and on top of that, without purposely poking the ego of anyone who has done well with the list, anything that can do as much as it does while having TLT to lean on after ALL of that, is likely to be an easy pick and play list. It’s usage may even go up at this point.

BUT... it usually takes a showing like these last two weekends before players look to directly counter a list. Don’t be surprised to see gunboats with ion cannons or similar gimmicks to deal with the squad.

I think a month is not enough time to shake out five new ships. A little patience, please.

Worst case, we, we will see a Crimson Specialist timing stapled to Trajectories or "when you reveal your dial" etc.

Just removes the genius interaction

16 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Guys, it’s not really over.... Palp Aces just won a System Open AND a Hyperspace Qualifier, with no losses at all.

Thanks @ScummyRebel for reminding us that there is hope.

Miranda was and is stupid, and the light nerf to Advanced Slam just killed her children, not her. It's her Regen dovetailing with the OP that is TLT that illuminates her game-breaking stupid-ness, nothing else really.

NYM was just given an OP chassis, with him having the only bomber that has access to an EPT attached to, once again, a turret, makes him stupid. That ship shouldn't of had a turret or an EPT; there, fixed, it would be wholesome.

3 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

NYM was just given an OP chassis, with him having the only bomber that has access to an EPT attached to, once again, a turret, makes him stupid. That ship shouldn't of had a turret or an EPT; there, fixed, it would be wholesome.

It would probably be trash, actually.

I would agree that Tie D's are the way to go for a counter. While I have not played Nymanda yet, this list has done well against most lists I have faced. My current list is GSP w/ Tractor, Ryad w/ Ion, and a wingman that I am still settling on. I have used Zeta Leader, a Nu w/ Flechette, and Countdown. I want to try out Double Edge w/ Unguided Rockets before settling on the list.

5 minutes ago, Panzeh said:

It would probably be trash, actually.

What you mean is: it would then be a Punisher.....

28 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Guys, it’s not really over.... Palp Aces just won a System Open AND a Hyperspace Qualifier, with no losses at all.

Hope... Counter-meta lists are built on hope.

I know that I'll be trying R3-A2/Gunner on Braylen or Ezra. Maybe Braylen/Fenn/Jess?

Just now, clanofwolves said:

What you mean is: it would then be a Punisher.....

Neither of us are wrong.

If a bomber is going to work it needs something to do when it's not dropping bombs.

1 minute ago, Panzeh said:

Neither of us are wrong.

If a bomber is going to work it needs something to do when it's not dropping bombs.

I agree in the current game, but I disagree that your statement is good for the game's longevity.

Yeah, we can't have ships locked into one thing (like 80 degree arcs) and therefore rely on setups and great flying to get back into another attack; ships should be able to do damage no mater where they are and what direction they are flying (add a heaping of dripping sarcasm over this sentence please).

I'm not being salty about your retorts, they're dead on and true, I'm just salty about the fact that good turrets (I'm looking at your stupid a** expansion Miranda) destroying what the game is all about: flying and positioning, three steps ahead to gain a strong and viable attack... the game has lost its heart in many ways. There is a glimmer of hope, albeit small, and Harpoons are actually lending to the solution more than the problem.