macd21 said:

I don't blame them for not releasing another. Regardless, I like to be surprised.

I know, but I liked it. Besides, it would be a nice way to prove a point and rise aboe it all...

macd21 said:

Yeah, I must say I am amused with how many people here would not be able to handle the kind of delays that go on in the video game market. Seriously, compared to any major video game company, Fantasy Flight's actually relatively punctual.

I'd like to see a supplement that contains three sections: New character options and the cut-out content for Ship Roles, new character equipment (containing some items that would have been considered a bit too 'high powered' back when the Inquisitor's Handbook was being compiled, but avoiding too much duplication with the IH), and a section containing new ship hulls and - more importantly - more ship components. Slews of them. Also, at the end of the ship component section, a smaller selection of Xenos hulls and components. The hulls can provide game masters with NPC vessel examples, and the components can be used for both NPC vessels and as xenotech components for PC vessels when appropriate.

Another supplement I'd like would be a Creatures Anathema equivalent for the Expanse. However, for each space-faring group or species listed, there should be a good representation of ship hulls and components that they use.

In short, I need more examples of ships and ship components to help me with the eyeballing work I need to do when making up my own ship material. The selection we have right now is very, very limited. My Dark Heresy collection (and experience with gamemastering it) has me set with examples that I'm good for making up any other categories of stuff I need.

MILLANDSON said:

One of the marines depicted on the Deathwatch page has wings on his head, meaning he's a Dark Angel. Ultramarines are the most popular "vanilla" chapter, so they are most likely in. Black Templars would be the only chapter that has it's own 40K codex that isn't represented in DW if they aren't included, so they're probably in. I'd think that Iron Hands are also likely to be included, as non of the other chapters really have a technical knack like they do to fill the role of techmarine.

So we have:

1. Blood Angels.

2. Dark Angels.

3. Space Wolves.

4. Ultramarines

5. Black Templars

6. Iron Hands.

Yanma said:

But most Space Marine Chapters can have Tech-Marines so Iron Hands would actually surprise me some.

l support the need for a Handbook-style supplement. What really sets this game apart from DH for me is the shipborne combat, and the commercial system, so I'd like to see both of those expanded. Also, psykers seemed kinda lacking in this system compared to DH. That could use a bit of dressing up with some supplemental disciplines or something.

FoxPhoenix135 said:

Except that Astropaths aren't the same as psykers. All they do is have mental powers, meaning telepathy, telekinesis, and divination. They don't have the wide selection of powers that sanctioned psykers have, but instead have a greater chance of succeeding in manifesting the powers without bad-stuff happening. I wouldn't expect disciplines like biomancy, pyromancy, etc, to show up any time soon.

Well then putting in sanctioned psykers as a new career choice in the same style as the IH would be good. I'm just saying that there is a definite lack of psykers in RT that DH had an abundance of. Of course, I suppose you could just make a DH character and convert it to RT, but that wouldn't be as much fun!

MILLANDSON said:

All? They are incredible poweful pskers, truly gifted. But heavily limited.

With acension there'll be nothing to stop people taking a fairly powerful sanctioned psyker on board (unless RT's get very worried about that).

Face Eater said:

By "all", I meant that they were limited to the "mentalist" sort of powers, rather than having access to all sorts of powers.

And yea... Sanctioned Psykers have always been the domain of Inquisitors and Imperial Guard (and Space Marines with Librarians, to a certain degree). How would a Rogue Trader get hold of one without making himself an outlaw in the first place?

MILLANDSON said:

The same way they get hold of everything else without being labelled outlaws I'd say: They use a mixture of their Emperor-given authority that is equal to that of a Space Marine chapter Master, Inquisitor and Imperial Commanders, bribery, their natural charm, lies, favours owed and given, hundreds of millions of Thrones, promises, threats, luck, panache, flattery, cheekiness and good people knowledge.

edit: Hope this doesn't come over as too abrasive. No insult intendet

Gokerz said:

Nah, it's all good Just that with Sanctioned Psykers being probably one of the most regulated "items" in the entire Imperium, I don't see them letting them wander off with a Rogue Trader when they could be fighting in the Imperial Guard or assisting Inquisitors.

Plus, with Psykers being covered in DH, I can't see them releasing entire new rules for them in RT. Your best chance really is to just use the DH psykers.

MILLANDSON said:

This is defnitely a way to see it. It's just that in my opinion, this makes Rogue Trader appear too much like nothing more than glorified traders and privateers, when I think that for most imperial institutions they are much, much more.

They are the voice of the Imperium that brings light to the heathens, the lone servants of the Imperium beyond its borders, the hand that reaches where none else dares to go. Being a Rogue Trader is an immensly honorable thing to be and I think there is no imperial Commander, no Space Marine Chapter Master, no Arch-Magus of the Adeptus Mechanicus und no Grand Deacon of the Adeptus Ministorum who doesn't have at least some small part of hir power bound in supporting some Rogue Traders. In total that is still not nearly enough to make sure that every Rogue Trader is fully supported, which is why in most cases the PCs won't start with a Cruiser + Escort, one or more IG regiments and a group of Space Marines. Still, I think it's too easy for some to forget that, despite all the defensive wars it fights and which always get the Spotlight in most articles, that the Imperium is based on proseletyzing and and annexation of new grounds. In the modern age, Rogue Traders are the main Instruments for this, and I think there is no imperial official who wouldn't lose face if he didn't support the institution that is Rogue Traders.

So if an honourable and trustworthy Rogue Trader with enough resources asks for an imperial Psyker he probably has good chances of getting one, because he is doing one of the most important things any member of the Imperium can do: to cross the Frontier to the unknown, bring his on earth's light to strange new worlds, to seek out and exploit new life and tithe new civilizations; to boldly go where no Imperial has gone before. And that is worth supporting.

The thing is, they are pretty much glorified traders/explorers/conquerors. If you read the RT rulebook, you'll see that a large number of people who get "promoted" with a Warrant of Trade are troublemakers and political opponents, people who you need rid of but are too important to simply have killed. Being sent out as a Rogue Trader, to a large number of people "promoted" in such a way, is a dead-end for their career.

If you want rid of someone, why would you give them an incredibly powerful, mostly proscribed "item" such as a Sanctioned Psyker, when they can be put to much better use elsewhere?

Also, looking at it practically... where is the incentive for FFG to convert/reprint a load of rules from DH just for RT, when it's just as easy to slap some extra characteristic increases on a DH psyker at char-gen, as well as a few extra skills, and have them work with RT just fine?

MILLANDSON said:

Well that is how a Rogue Trader dynasty begins at least (some of them). But your run of the mill 500XP new rogue trader character more then likely inherited that warrant of trade.

I see no reason why a Rogue Trader, who at times has space marines, storm troopers, imperial cruisers, navigators, astropaths and other specialized and valued assets at their disposal wouldnt be able to get a sanctioned psyker.

MILLANDSON said:

A free PDF of conversion rules, or a single chapter in a upcoming book for each game, such as an appendix add on, would not be too big of a request or task for FFG to undertake. All three core rulebooks are going to have about 50+ pages of reprinted stuff anyway, so why not a little black box saying "In order to properly transfer a career over from RT to DH, add +5 to all characteristics, begin with an additional 100XP and add the following extra step to the origin path" with that extra step being 6 or so options/choices that give the character 5-7 new skills/talents.

The biggest difference is the XP cost for skills and talents on the advance charts in RT tend to be higher then the ones in DH. Probably an easy fix for that, such as charging double the XP for advances or something.

MILLANDSON said:

It's still a promotion though, and everyone is pretty clear on that. Just because you promote the person to a job where shi will no longer be in a position to interact with you and that is pretty dangerous doesn't make it less of one. Some of the people might have preferred their careers to go in a different direction, but noone can deny that the power, potential for fame, honour, riches and freedom this promotion gives them is one of a kind.

In the modern Imperium, where so much of their resources has to be waged on defensive wars, Rogue Trader are one of the few remaining shimmers of the old times. Of the times when the Emperor strode forth, his Sons at his side, and conquered what is now the Glorious Imperium of Mankind.

There is no "better" use a Psyker can be put to. There might be things that demand more immediate attention for the survival of the Imperium, but no necessary war of defense or rooting out of heretics approaches the honour, meaning and glory that can be achieved in service to a Rogue Trader. Only the Grand Crusades under command of a Warlord, that bring entire new Sectors in the the fold of the Imperium, top that. Wether there are enough Psykers left after counting out those used in defensive wars or by the Inquisition is a different question. I'd say there are. If there are enough Cruisers that at least a few Rogue Traders can sport them, then there are enough Psykers that at least a few Rogue Traders can have one in their retinue. Not many, sure, but a few. Enough that one might be in a group of Rogue Trader PCs (for which it really is sufficient if only one in a few million Rogue Traders is accompanied by a Psyker).

Your second paragraph also creates the impression that all Rogue Traders got their job because someone wanted to "get rid of them" by promotion to Rogue Trader status. There are many honourable and heroic Rogue Traders who well deserved the Warrant of Trade they received. Don't make the exception into the rule. "Not giving things to someone you wanted to get rid of" can't be an argument in most cases.

I'm not sure about your last sentence, is it directed at FoxPhoenix135?

Now that I think about it, we're also all hitting on another mechanic FFG could cover for a RT supplement, the Rogue Trader's dynasty itself. While the part about lineages and bloodlines could be covered in some good roleplaying, mechanics for the kind of holdings a RT could acquire might be interesting. Granted, owning your own shipyard is an option for only the wealthest of Rogue Traders. But fairly successful ones might be able to develop a few prosperous colonies here and there, own a controlling interest on a Imperial starbase in the middle of a busy trade lane, or set up a repair base somewhere convienent....

An Eldar sourcebook with some detailed rules for PC creation and their unique customs, technology and spacecraft would be spiffing.

Hmmm, RT's aren't the only Imperial institutions to step beyond it's borders, there are (to name a few): Wars of Faith, Grand Crusades, Imperial Envoy's, Explorator Fleets, Imperial Assasins, SM Chapters etc.