Since we haven’t had much from FFG concerning multiplayer rules, our group of 4 players are giving our version a shot.

We just finished a game with 4 players and are about to start another one again with a few tweaks. My wife wants to jump in with her Crane, so we will have a 5 Player game next. —-The 4 Clans in the first game were Dragon, Lion, Scorpion and Crab. Scorpion was the first to be defeated through loss of Provinces, followed by my Dragon through loss of Honor and Lion ended up winning through breaking Crab’s Stronghold. Total game time was 2 hours and 30mins. —-

I’ll post our setup rules and gameplay sometime tomorrow. Having the Imperial Favor was huge!!!

Hope this will be fun for all of us involved. ?

I am partway through something multiplayer as well. Do you mind if we make this a thread for ideas?

2 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I am partway through something multiplayer as well. Do you mind if we make this a thread for ideas?

Oh absolutely! Go for it. ?

Im posting my review of our games soon.

So, I have put together something inspired by the Game of Thrones multiplayer rules but also taking a suggestion I say in an earlier thread.

Important points:

• Use 2 sets of rings (1 Military, 1 Political) to enable sufficient conflicts.
• Use Position cards to limit piling-on to someone on a weak turn.
• Use Position cards instead of the favour
• During the card draw phase, each player passes honour to one person, and receives it from someone else, simultaneously.

The full rules are here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YyRJPwMMDIuaItclU5aVnxbLBtdUdLhyEdevcDeM600/edit?usp=sharing

With 3 or 4 players, there will be unused positions. What about the players who give or take from those positions? Also, with 3 players, it's possible for a player to have no rivals and be pretty much excluded from the conflict phase, since they can neither attack nor be attacked. That seems like something to be avoided (because it's boring).

We ended up playing 3 games total on Sunday, each being more interesting than the previous. In our first game, we had a total of 4 players, with our homebrewed tweaks to allow multiple players – this went rather smoothly, other than triggers and determining the Imperial Favor… In our second game we tried 5 players, and this didn’t go past the 1^st turn…. In our 3^rd game, we played 4 players, and this went faster than we anticipated. (very cut-throat!)

The rules (tweaks) that we decided to incorporate were a bit complicated, added a whole new level of strategical thinking and angst, and changed the makeup of the game fully. This cannot be stressed enough.

Our small group had a good time, though certainly more tweaking is needed.

4-Player Rules (tweaks)

Dynasty deck 50 – 60 cards (my deck had 51 cards)

Conflict deck 50 – 60 cards (my deck had 53 cards)

2 Sets of Rings, thus a total of 10 Rings….. 5 Political, 5 Military

A player that loses their Stronghold is removed from the match.

A player that is down to 0 Honor is removed from the match.

A player that attains 25 Honor is the winner of the match.

A player that pops a neighbor’s Stronghold gains +2 Honor and +2 Fate.

= All players are arranged so that each has a ‘neighbor’ to his left and right; for our group we sat at a round table, so all of us were arranged as such during our first game. (Crab, Dragon, Scorpion, Lion)

= First Player is determined randomly (Crab during 1^st game). The player sitting straight across gains an additional 1 Fate (Scorpion during 1^st game).

= 1^st Dynasty Phase… All players, starting with Crab, are given their regular allotments of Fate, Honor, Dynasty cards are flipped over, and a single round of Dynasty is played out. NOTE- Only Dynasty characters are played; there will not be any attacks conducted against any other player…. All players, starting with Crab, can take a Dynasty turn. During this 1^st Dynasty Phase, all players can play a character, pass, etc…. First player to pass gains a Fate. (as normal rules)

NOTE-à Dynasty characters played during the 1^st Dynasty phase do NOT lose/remove any Fate at the conclusion of this round.

= 2^nd Dynasty Phase (Start of Game)…. All players, again starting with Crab as in our 1^st game, are given their allotment of Fate ONLY, and Provinces are re-filled if prior Dynasty characters were played from that given Province, and each player begins their ‘regular’ Dynasty phase….. Game now reverts to a ‘regular’ flow.

NOTE- Thus, there are 2 Dynasty phases; during the 1^st Dynasty, all players can take a Dynasty turn, play characters from their Provinces, play Way of the Crab for instance, but cannot initiate any Military or Political conflicts….. As designed/tweaked, each player will have a minimum of 14 Fate prior to the start of the multiplayer game…… Once again, Characters played during Dynasty phase do NOT lose any Fate during the end of the 1^st Dynasty phase – this is very important.

During our first game, when we finished our “2^nd Dynasty” phase, Crab had 5 characters out, I had 5 characters as well, Scorpion had 6 characters, and Lion had 9 characters iirc. It made for some tense looks at one another’s board.

Draw Phase

Each player selects a number on their dial as normal, per the regular rules. However, when dials are revealed, only the highest bid and lowest bid exchange Honor. If 2 or more players are tied for the highest, then they each lose an equivalent amount of Honor. If/when two players are tied for the lowest bid, then both gain a single Honor….

Example 1): Crab bid 2, Dragon bid 5, Scorpion bid 2, Lion bid 1…. Dragon removes 4 Honor, and Lion gains 4 Honor… No other Honor is exchanged among any of the other players.

Example 2): Crab bids 1, Dragon bids 3, Scorpion bids 3, Lion bids 1…. Dragon and Scorpion remove 2 Honor each, while Lion and Crab both gain 2 Honor each.

Example 3): Crab bids 2, Dragon bids 3, Scorpion bids 2, Lion bids 2…. Dragon loses an Honor, while Crab, Scorpion and Lion gain 1 Honor each….

Example 4): Crab bids 2, Dragon bids 4, Scorpion bids 3, Lion bids 2…. Dragon loses 2 Honor, while Crab and Lion gain 1 Honor each…. No other Honor is exchanged among any of the other players.

Example 5): Crab bids 2, Dragon bids 5, Scorpion bids 5, Lion bids 2… Dragon and Scorpion each lose 3 Honor, while Crab and Lion gain 1 Honor each.

Example 6): Crab bids 1, Dragon bids 2, Scorpion bids 3, Lion bids 4… Lion loses 3 Honor, Crab gains 3 Honor… No other Honor is exchanged among any of the other players.

Example 7): Crab bids 3, Dragon bids 5, Scorpion bids 5, Lion bids 2…. Scorpion and Dragon each lose 3 Honor, Lion gets 3 Honor…. No other Honor is exchanged among any of the other players.

After bids are revealed and Honor is lost/gained, 1^st Player gains 1 Honor OR 1 Fate. (we actually forgot about this after the first or second round, I think)

Conflicts

= Each player can initiate only 1 Political and 1 Military conflict total, per round, against one of their neighbors…. If I, as Dragon, attack with Military against Scorpion, I can only attack Crab with Political in a later turn.

= Play proceeds as normal, with each player, beginning with 1^st Player, chooses to initiate a Military or Political conflict versus one of their neighbors, either to their left or to their right.

= Players may play a single Conflict card on their neighbors per round. Thus, as I was Dragon in our match, I could play one Conflict card against Crab, and one Conflict card against Scorpion, per round.

= Players can not attack the player to their immediate front, as they are not neighbors/adjacent to them. (this changes when a player is defeated)

=During all Military and Political Conflicts, a player may ask for support when being attacked (defensive support) or when attacking (offensive support)…. The neighbor not involved in the conflict may send a single character as ‘support’ for either a Military or Political conflict taking place at the given province. The ‘supporting’ neighbor chooses a single character and moves it to the given province to defend/attack….. Conflict cards are not allowed to be used by supporting Clans…

Example 1): Dragon initiated a Military conflict against Scorpion. Scorpion asked for support from Lion, and Lion says no…. Dragon asked Lion for support, and Lion agreed and sent a single character to aid in the Attack on Scorpion’s Province…. after the conflict resolved, Lion’s character moved back home, bowed, and play continued…

Example 2): Scorpion initiated a Political conflict against Lion….. Lion asks for support from Crab, and Crab agreed… Crab sent a character to aid Scorpion’s attack… after the conflict resolved (Scorpion won that conflict), Crab’s character moved back home, bowed..…

Example 3): Crab initiated a Military conflict against Dragon… Crab asks for support from Scorpion, and Scorpion refuses…. Dragon asks for support, and Scorpion again refuses…. Crab and Dragon play out the conflict per normal.

Imperial Favor (hardest aspect in multiplayer)

This part was the most continually debated, fought over, generally disagreed about section of our tweaks. We decided to go with a compromised version that took everyone’s concerns into account. Strongly suspect for this to change come next time we play L5R.

Control of the Imperial Favor is worked out as follows:

Count the number of rings you own….

Add the amount of Glory on ready characters…

Add your bid amount…. (yes, bid amount, which varies from 1-5... not used in our games)

Highest total gains the Imperial Favor.

If 2 or more are tied, and one of those players currently owns the Imperial Favor, then the Imperial Favor remains with the player who currently owns it.

If 2 or more are tied, and neither/none of those players currently owns the Imperial Favor, then the Imperial Favor is given to the next tied player to the left of the 1st Player token. (this was by far the most confusing aspect to fully implement during play)

Example 1): 1^st player Crab has a count of 5, Dragon has a count of 1, Scorpion has a count of 2, Lion has a count of 3… Crab has the highest total….Crab gains Imperial Favor.

Example 2): Crab has a count of 4, 1^st player Dragon has a count of 4, Scorpion has a count of 1, Lion has a count of 3…. Since Crab already controls the Imperial Favor, Crab maintains control.

Example 3): Crab has a count of 1, Dragon has a count of 3, 1^st player Scorpion has a count of 3, Lion has a count of 1….. Crab controls the Imperial Favor..… Dragon is given control of the Imperial Favor. (Dragon was the first player to the left of the current 1^st Player, which was Scorpion)

Example 4): Crab has a count of 3, Dragon has a count of 2, Scorpion has a count of 1, 1^st player Lion has a count of 3….. Dragon had the Imperial Favor, now Crab gains control of the Imperial Favor.

Example 5): 1^st player Crab has a count of 3, Dragon has a count of 2, Scorpion has a count of 3, Lion has a count of 1…. Crab had the Imperial Favor, so Crab maintains control of the Imperial Favor.

Example 6): Crab has a count of 1, 1^st Player Dragon has a count of 3, Scorpion has a count of 1, Lion has a count of 3…. Crab has the Imperial Favor but Dragon is 1^st Player, but Lion gains it as Lion is the next player to the left of Dragon with a total of 3 glory count.

16 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

With 3 or 4 players, there will be unused positions. What about the players who give or take from those positions? Also, with 3 players, it's possible for a player to have no rivals and be pretty much excluded from the conflict phase, since they can neither attack nor be attacked. That seems like something to be avoided (because it's boring).

If you're giving to an unused position, check where that position would give their honour and continue on. With 4 players it should be obvious, with 3, it might require some checking to be sure. The aim is for everyone to give and receive.

The other thing, that's a good point. I'll need to think about that.

@LordBlunt

Why did you feel the need for the build-up turn? That was one aspect of the CCG that I feel was a good thing for the LCG to do away with. I also feel that things may be a bit more complex than needed. Then again, this is for how you and your friends play, so it might be perfect.

6 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

@LordBlunt

Why did you feel the need for the build-up turn? That was one aspect of the CCG that I feel was a good thing for the LCG to do away with. I also feel that things may be a bit more complex than needed. Then again, this is for how you and your friends play, so it might be perfect.

The extra Dynasty phase was borne out of the belief that, if I can quote verbatim the group members, "there aren't enough characters on the board to ensure the grandness of the battle," or some such. We tossed the idea around and all of us approved it.

We did have a dry run prior to our first game, to test the workings of a 4 player group. It went rather well, but all of us were sitting on the sidelines waiting for someone else to commit the first conflict, so that we can better assess odds prior to jumping in, and this made the game rather slow and defensive in the first 2 rounds. When we added the extra Dynasty phase, allowing more characters onto the field, players were more open to aggression and out right barbarism.... a trait that is often preferred in our card games.

The main headache was the Imperial Favor, followed by the amount of Conflict cards that a player can throw at his opponent. Needless to say, this is something that is still in progress.

On 2018/1/17 at 2:06 AM, LordBlunt said:

We ended up playing 3 games total on Sunday, each being more interesting than the previous. In our first game, we had a total of 4 players, with our homebrewed tweaks to allow multiple players – this went rather smoothly, other than triggers and determining the Imperial Favor… In our second game we tried 5 players, and this didn’t go past the 1^st turn…. In our 3^rd game, we played 4 players, and this went faster than we anticipated. (very cut-throat!)

The rules (tweaks) that we decided to incorporate were a bit complicated, added a whole new level of strategical thinking and angst, and changed the makeup of the game fully. This cannot be stressed enough.

Our small group had a good time, though certainly more tweaking is needed.

4-Player Rules (tweaks)

Dynasty deck 50 – 60 cards (my deck had 51 cards)

Conflict deck 50 – 60 cards (my deck had 53 cards)

2 Sets of Rings, thus a total of 10 Rings….. 5 Political, 5 Military

A player that loses their Stronghold is removed from the match.

A player that is down to 0 Honor is removed from the match.

A player that attains 25 Honor is the winner of the match.

A player that pops a neighbor’s Stronghold gains +2 Honor and +2 Fate.

= All players are arranged so that each has a ‘neighbor’ to his left and right; for our group we sat at a round table, so all of us were arranged as such during our first game. (Crab, Dragon, Scorpion, Lion)

= First Player is determined randomly (Crab during 1^st game). The player sitting straight across gains an additional 1 Fate (Scorpion during 1^st game).

= 1^st Dynasty Phase… All players, starting with Crab, are given their regular allotments of Fate, Honor, Dynasty cards are flipped over, and a single round of Dynasty is played out. NOTE- Only Dynasty characters are played; there will not be any attacks conducted against any other player…. All players, starting with Crab, can take a Dynasty turn. During this 1^st Dynasty Phase, all players can play a character, pass, etc…. First player to pass gains a Fate. (as normal rules)

NOTE-à Dynasty characters played during the 1^st Dynasty phase do NOT lose/remove any Fate at the conclusion of this round.

= 2^nd Dynasty Phase (Start of Game)…. All players, again starting with Crab as in our 1^st game, are given their allotment of Fate ONLY, and Provinces are re-filled if prior Dynasty characters were played from that given Province, and each player begins their ‘regular’ Dynasty phase….. Game now reverts to a ‘regular’ flow.

NOTE- Thus, there are 2 Dynasty phases; during the 1^st Dynasty, all players can take a Dynasty turn, play characters from their Provinces, play Way of the Crab for instance, but cannot initiate any Military or Political conflicts….. As designed/tweaked, each player will have a minimum of 14 Fate prior to the start of the multiplayer game…… Once again, Characters played during Dynasty phase do NOT lose any Fate during the end of the 1^st Dynasty phase – this is very important.

During our first game, when we finished our “2^nd Dynasty” phase, Crab had 5 characters out, I had 5 characters as well, Scorpion had 6 characters, and Lion had 9 characters iirc. It made for some tense looks at one another’s board.

Draw Phase

Each player selects a number on their dial as normal, per the regular rules. However, when dials are revealed, only the highest bid and lowest bid exchange Honor. If 2 or more players are tied for the highest, then they each lose an equivalent amount of Honor. If/when two players are tied for the lowest bid, then both gain a single Honor….

Example 1): Crab bid 2, Dragon bid 5, Scorpion bid 2, Lion bid 1…. Dragon removes 4 Honor, and Lion gains 4 Honor… No other Honor is exchanged among any of the other players.

Example 2): Crab bids 1, Dragon bids 3, Scorpion bids 3, Lion bids 1…. Dragon and Scorpion remove 2 Honor each, while Lion and Crab both gain 2 Honor each.

Example 3): Crab bids 2, Dragon bids 3, Scorpion bids 2, Lion bids 2…. Dragon loses an Honor, while Crab, Scorpion and Lion gain 1 Honor each….

Example 4): Crab bids 2, Dragon bids 4, Scorpion bids 3, Lion bids 2…. Dragon loses 2 Honor, while Crab and Lion gain 1 Honor each…. No other Honor is exchanged among any of the other players.

Example 5): Crab bids 2, Dragon bids 5, Scorpion bids 5, Lion bids 2… Dragon and Scorpion each lose 3 Honor, while Crab and Lion gain 1 Honor each.

Example 6): Crab bids 1, Dragon bids 2, Scorpion bids 3, Lion bids 4… Lion loses 3 Honor, Crab gains 3 Honor… No other Honor is exchanged among any of the other players.

Example 7): Crab bids 3, Dragon bids 5, Scorpion bids 5, Lion bids 2…. Scorpion and Dragon each lose 3 Honor, Lion gets 3 Honor…. No other Honor is exchanged among any of the other players.

After bids are revealed and Honor is lost/gained, 1^st Player gains 1 Honor OR 1 Fate. (we actually forgot about this after the first or second round, I think)

Conflicts

= Each player can initiate only 1 Political and 1 Military conflict total, per round, against one of their neighbors…. If I, as Dragon, attack with Military against Scorpion, I can only attack Crab with Political in a later turn.

= Play proceeds as normal, with each player, beginning with 1^st Player, chooses to initiate a Military or Political conflict versus one of their neighbors, either to their left or to their right.

= Players may play a single Conflict card on their neighbors per round. Thus, as I was Dragon in our match, I could play one Conflict card against Crab, and one Conflict card against Scorpion, per round.

= Players can not attack the player to their immediate front, as they are not neighbors/adjacent to them. (this changes when a player is defeated)

=During all Military and Political Conflicts, a player may ask for support when being attacked (defensive support) or when attacking (offensive support)…. The neighbor not involved in the conflict may send a single character as ‘support’ for either a Military or Political conflict taking place at the given province. The ‘supporting’ neighbor chooses a single character and moves it to the given province to defend/attack….. Conflict cards are not allowed to be used by supporting Clans…

Example 1): Dragon initiated a Military conflict against Scorpion. Scorpion asked for support from Lion, and Lion says no…. Dragon asked Lion for support, and Lion agreed and sent a single character to aid in the Attack on Scorpion’s Province…. after the conflict resolved, Lion’s character moved back home, bowed, and play continued…

Example 2): Scorpion initiated a Political conflict against Lion….. Lion asks for support from Crab, and Crab agreed… Crab sent a character to aid Scorpion’s attack… after the conflict resolved (Scorpion won that conflict), Crab’s character moved back home, bowed..…

Example 3): Crab initiated a Military conflict against Dragon… Crab asks for support from Scorpion, and Scorpion refuses…. Dragon asks for support, and Scorpion again refuses…. Crab and Dragon play out the conflict per normal.

Imperial Favor (hardest aspect in multiplayer)

This part was the most continually debated, fought over, generally disagreed about section of our tweaks. We decided to go with a compromised version that took everyone’s concerns into account. Strongly suspect for this to change come next time we play L5R.

Control of the Imperial Favor is worked out as follows:

Count the number of rings you own….

Add the amount of Glory on ready characters…

Add your bid amount…. (yes, bid amount, which varies from 1-5... not used in our games)

Highest total gains the Imperial Favor.

If 2 or more are tied, and one of those players currently owns the Imperial Favor, then the Imperial Favor remains with the player who currently owns it.

If 2 or more are tied, and neither/none of those players currently owns the Imperial Favor, then the Imperial Favor is given to the next tied player to the left of the 1st Player token. (this was by far the most confusing aspect to fully implement during play)

Example 1): 1^st player Crab has a count of 5, Dragon has a count of 1, Scorpion has a count of 2, Lion has a count of 3… Crab has the highest total….Crab gains Imperial Favor.

Example 2): Crab has a count of 4, 1^st player Dragon has a count of 4, Scorpion has a count of 1, Lion has a count of 3…. Since Crab already controls the Imperial Favor, Crab maintains control.

Example 3): Crab has a count of 1, Dragon has a count of 3, 1^st player Scorpion has a count of 3, Lion has a count of 1….. Crab controls the Imperial Favor..… Dragon is given control of the Imperial Favor. (Dragon was the first player to the left of the current 1^st Player, which was Scorpion)

Example 4): Crab has a count of 3, Dragon has a count of 2, Scorpion has a count of 1, 1^st player Lion has a count of 3….. Dragon had the Imperial Favor, now Crab gains control of the Imperial Favor.

Example 5): 1^st player Crab has a count of 3, Dragon has a count of 2, Scorpion has a count of 3, Lion has a count of 1…. Crab had the Imperial Favor, so Crab maintains control of the Imperial Favor.

Example 6): Crab has a count of 1, 1^st Player Dragon has a count of 3, Scorpion has a count of 1, Lion has a count of 3…. Crab has the Imperial Favor but Dragon is 1^st Player, but Lion gains it as Lion is the next player to the left of Dragon with a total of 3 glory count.

Example 2): Crab bids 1, Dragon bids 3, Scorpion bids 3, Lion bids 1…. Dragon and Scorpion remove 2 Honor each, while Lion and Crab both gain 2 Honor each.

Example 5): Crab bids 2, Dragon bids 5, Scorpion bids 5, Lion bids 2… Dragon and Scorpion each lose 3 Honor, while Crab and Lion gain 1 Honor each.

Can't understand this…

@kainveus Good question. It seems that example 2) was wrongly stated. Both Lion and Crab should gain 1 Honor each. (I mis-wrote 2 Honor)

Once again, if 2 or more players are tied for the lowest bid, then those players only ever receive 1 Honor.

Since I’m here I might share the following, assuming it helps someone reading this thread.

This past Wednesday we played a couple of 3-Player games with these rules. Mostly, it went smoothly, but the aspect of “vulturing” became the norm.... as soon as one player is seen as being weak, the other 2 jump on him/her and brutally remove them. It wasn’t fun to see or experience, but we all took part in it. ?

In our first game I played Dragon versus Crane (my wife’s deck) and Crab. I mainly attacked Crab, Crab mainly attacked me, and Crane was fending off attacks from both other opponents, while always trying to snipe a Province from Crab/Dragon when appropriate,... the whole complexion of the game was quite different; it just wasn’t a 1 vs 1 game, and it wasn’t a ‘multiplayer’ game neither. It was something in between. The Conflict phase was the most tense period of gaming I’ve experienced in this game. !!! (Crab won, Dragon lost on Honor, Crane had no Military game left)

In our second game, my Phoenix deck went up against Scorpion and Lion.... long story short, Lion was ousted at the beginning of turn 3, and Phoenix (through incredible card draw, as I bid 4 each time) bested ? by breaking its Stronghold through sheer shugenja power, through a Political Conflict. An insane game, because Scorpion’s low bidding throughout the game didn’t help him when he was not able to draw enough Conflict characters to see him through vs Phoenix.

In summary, the multiplayer game format, starting with bidding through to Conflict declarations, takes on a whole different dimension. Further, the ability for a player to declare a military Earth Conflict, then choose a political Earth Conflict is incredible. (assuming that player wins both conflicts)

Overall, in my humble opinion, the rules work. It might not be a pretty sight with 3 players as players are inclined to “vulture” their opponents, but the experience is second to none - assuming you’re into card games.