Quick question for anyone who is more knowledgeable than me...

anyone who has played Armada knows the importance of activation count. I’m wondering how significant it is in this game? Loading up with heavy expensive toys won’t achieve much if they don’t get to hit much because the enemy hangs back out if your range. I’m wondering how this is catered for in this game? Or if it’s even an issue given you move\shoot rather than the armada system.

there is an "overwatch" reaction mechanic (see the combat article) and i'd assume you could also just not use your actions.

Activation count will be important, but with it being random after commands probably not *as* important as Armada, especially as any unit that doesn't have compulsory moves chooses it's move/attack order. In fact high activation counts with mixed forces could be detrimental.

No pass mechanic that I’m aware of. I anticipate activation numbers being very important....if somebody goes to heavy on expensive pieces it’ll be easy to double, triple or even quadruple tap them at the end of the turn.

That said, it’s pretty different to Armada due to the command cards and different turn order.

Higher activation count is probably useful, but there are some pretty significant differences from Armada. In my opinion, there are some very good rules and mechanics in place that should address some of the frustrations Armada players sometime experience. I think you'll probably have to actually play (or watch) a few games after it comes out to really decide.

As you know, in Armada, you must shoot and then move; because of this, you can end up moving into range of an un-activated enemy without having a chance to shoot. But in Legion, your units can move and then shoot, or shoot and then move. Your trooper units can take a standby action (the "overwatch" mechanic @Ralgon is referring to, which is mention near the end of this movement article) essentially allowing them to save their shots for any targets that move withing a certain range.

Trooper units are really what the game is built around. They are less expensive and the primary contributor to your activation count, but they can be suppressed, which causes them to lose an action (so a suppressed unit of Rebel Troopers can move or shoot, but not both.) Vehicles, which tend to be more expensive, cannot be suppressed, though there are specialized upgrades that are more effective when dealing with them.

Also there are hard limits on how many units of a certain type you can take, so that already prevents a certain amount of potential list-building shenanigans.

Activations will matter for sure, and as stated above taking the standby action coupled with the aim/dodge action will stall a unit if you really need to hold back. The game, however, is not a kill game, it's an objectives game. As such taking and holding objective points is going to be your main focus. FFG has suggsted that you get very few, if any, points for taking out enemy units.

The objective aspect is actually why I think (and games so far support this) activations are so strong. For anybody familiar with Malifaux, there’s a lot of similarity in how much power activation control gives over objective scoring.

Being able to activate multiple units in a row after the enemy is done to grab objective points is pretty big. You can immediately take control of scoring areas since it’s scored by how many unit leaders each player has in range. Even if you had zero for the whole turn while the enemy was acting, you can just stroll up 2-3 and nab it almost at will.

Its certainly not th be all and end all, but it is very strong for scoring. He enemy really, really needs to kill off some units very fast to avoid falling behind in victory points.

I do think that the ability to somewhat control activation order via the command cards will reduce the worst abuses for early game activation shenanigans. You could even prioritize particular unit combinations to ensure that your critical units are activating later in the round when necessary.

On 1/13/2018 at 4:38 PM, beefcake4000 said:

Quick question for anyone who is more knowledgeable than me...

anyone who has played Armada knows the importance of activation count. I’m wondering how significant it is in this game? Loading up with heavy expensive toys won’t achieve much if they don’t get to hit much because the enemy hangs back out if your range. I’m wondering how this is catered for in this game? Or if it’s even an issue given you move\shoot rather than the armada system.

As has been said, activation count will matter. But there is a pseudo random activation mechanic to prevent activation abuse like last/first Demo.

At the start of each round, you and your opponent "bid" for first player with 1 of 7 cards you start with. Each card has pips that determine who goes first. And on each card tells you how many units you can activate whenever you want during your turn. Otherwise, you draw tokens randomly and activate a corresponding unit.

So if you bring an AT-ST, roughly 25% of your points, you'll want to always activate it when you want so you'll always try to pair a command card with it. Otherwise, you run the risk of having it activate too early and being less effective.

It's a brilliant system IMO. You can read the article yourself.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/12/1/orders-from-high-command/

Technically it doesn’t stop a double tap like first/last Demo.

You can just make sure one of your “guaranteed” activations is your double tapping unit, as the last activation of the turn. Then play a fast initiative/low orders command card last tu n and activate the same unit first. Sorted.

What it does do though is mean you have to sacrifice a lot of control over the rest of your turns to pull this off, unlike Armada where there is really very little penalty.

So it’s a definite improvement IMO...leaves a tactic viable but with important trade offs. As it should be!

3 minutes ago, Extropia said:

You can just make sure one of your “guaranteed” activations is your double tapping unit, as the last activation of the turn. Then play a fast initiative/low orders command card last tu n and activate the same unit first. Sorted.

What it does do though is mean you have to sacrifice a lot of control over the rest of your turns to pull this off, unlike Armada where there is really very little penalty.

Your opponent can challenge you for priority by matching, beating, or withholding (to beat on subsequent turns) whatever priority you've played. The best you can ever guarantee is a 50/50 gamble, in the event of a tie.

In Armada, the act itself has little penalty, but to execute it at all requires you to bid for first, playing the other player's objectives, and to have more activations than they do. If you bid 8 points but they bid 9, and/or they out-activate you, and/or their objectives are good enough to make up for the loss, then that bid/activation investment is wasted.

Thing is, it’s obvious when someone is going to last/first double tap. He is almost always going to take an initiative 1 command card. You can either choose to fight it with your own 1 unit command card, in which case it’s a 50/50 chance, or give it up and take a init 3 card and give orders to more units.

A good commander know when to plan for this and mitigate it as much as possible. It’s also possible to intentionally let your opppnent double tap at one of your valuable so that he wastes his init 1 command card. You give up a valuable unit but in turn you might have the initiate advantage when fighting over an objective.

11 minutes ago, Extropia said:

Technically it doesn’t stop a double tap like first/last Demo.

You can just make sure one of your “guaranteed” activations is your double tapping unit, as the last activation of the turn. Then play a fast initiative/low orders command card last tu n and activate the same unit first. Sorted.

What it does do though is mean you have to sacrifice a lot of control over the rest of your turns to pull this off, unlike Armada where there is really very little penalty.

So it’s a definite improvement IMO...leaves a tactic viable but with important trade offs. As it should be!

Agreed. I'm fine with 1 round of last/first, but not every round. And even then, I'm allowing it to happen with my own bid. And you do lose control of your forces by playing Ambush, so I could counter play with Standing Orders, which activates 4 units?

Really cool mechanic.

5 minutes ago, svelok said:

In Armada, the act itself has little penalty, but to execute it at all requires you to bid for first, playing the other player's objectives, and to have more activations than they do. If you bid 8 points but they bid 9, and/or they out-activate you, and/or their objectives are good enough to make up for the loss, then that bid/activation investment is wasted.

Nah. Just run 6 activations at 400 points. Let your opponent make the decision for you and take strong objectives. That's what I've done and won a few tournaments n placed top 4 in the others.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

Nah. Just run 6 activations at 400 points. Let your opponent make the decision for you and take strong objectives. That's what I've done and won a few tournaments n placed top 4 in the others.

That's exactly my point. There's no penalty for last/firsting, mostly - only exception being if you're forced to sacrifice a ship that's threatened by not activating it instead, or whatever.

But in order to set up the last/first, you do pay a price. You've gotta bid, knowing your opponent might outbid you - making it pointless - or might go 400 and have a hefty points advantage, and that you could have both happen if you go too far one way or the other. You've gotta take high activations, knowing if your opponent takes the same as you do, or more, then it was all pointless. You're committed to wanting to go first, playing into your opponent's objectives, and conceding the advantage there in order to gain a different one.

In Legion, there's no such cost to set up a last/first; instead, there's a greater risk and penalty in the act itself. You could lose the priority contest, or suffer from a random activation due to handing out few commands.

6 minutes ago, svelok said:

That's exactly my point. There's no penalty for last/firsting, mostly - only exception being if you're forced to sacrifice a ship that's threatened by not activating it instead, or whatever.

But in order to set up the last/first, you do pay a price. You've gotta bid, knowing your opponent might outbid you - making it pointless - or might go 400 and have a hefty points advantage, and that you could have both happen if you go too far one way or the other. You've gotta take high activations, knowing if your opponent takes the same as you do, or more, then it was all pointless. You're committed to wanting to go first, playing into your opponent's objectives, and conceding the advantage there in order to gain a different one.

In Legion, there's no such cost to set up a last/first; instead, there's a greater risk and penalty in the act itself. You could lose the priority contest, or suffer from a random activation due to handing out few commands.

I think that's why Legion will be much more fun to play with less gamey parts like massive bids or over-used objectives.

20 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I think that's why Legion will be much more fun to play with less gamey parts like massive bids or over-used objectives.

It's just a more tactical, less strategic direction. Different games for different focuses.

7 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

Agreed. I'm fine with 1 round of last/first, but not every round. And even then, I'm allowing it to happen with my own bid. And you do lose control of your forces by playing Ambush, so I could counter play with Standing Orders, which activates 4 units?

Really cool mechanic.

8 minutes ago, Orcdruid said:

Even worse. Just 1.

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Even worse. Just 1.

Of course, it's a stall card. Unlike the other command cards which are one offs this one can be used multiple times. It's good for turn one, but not much else.

As I understand:

The pips in the top left are who goes first, highest being 4 and highest goes first. Not too sure about a draw.

The 1 Unit represents the number of units you can activate without drawing a random token.

After that you draw random tokens and activate the unit type represented by the token.

Some order cards are specific to a given commander and may have rather distinct advantages for a certain build of army. Perhaps too different commanders have different numbers of command cards, Darth Vader may have 4 while Veers may have 3. Also, there are 4 generic command cards Standing Orders is one of them. In general I expect that the pips and units given a command would add to 5, so 1 pip =4 Units, 2 pips=3 Units and so on.

Also speculating, but the commanders cards are use once per game, the generic ones will probably return to hand.

5 hours ago, Amanal said:

As I understand:

The pips in the top left are who goes first, highest being 4 and highest goes first. Not too sure about a draw.

The 1 Unit represents the number of units you can activate without drawing a random token.

After that you draw random tokens and activate the unit type represented by the token.

Some order cards are specific to a given commander and may have rather distinct advantages for a certain build of army. Perhaps too different commanders have different numbers of command cards, Darth Vader may have 4 while Veers may have 3. Also, there are 4 generic command cards Standing Orders is one of them. In general I expect that the pips and units given a command would add to 5, so 1 pip =4 Units, 2 pips=3 Units and so on.

Also speculating, but the commanders cards are use once per game, the generic ones will probably return to hand.

"every commander in Star Wars: Legion also comes with three unique command cards"

"In the upper-left corner of every command card, you will see a number of pips. If your command card has fewer pips than your opponent’s, you win priority—the chance to act first throughout the round! "

"You and your opponent will alternate activating units, and every time it’s your turn, you face a choice. You could activate a unit that you issued orders to, sending your plans cascading into action as Rebel Troopers open fire or Darth Vader stalks unstoppably forward. Or, you may draw a random order token from your unused order tokens and activate any unit with the corresponding rank."

"You can’t use command cards over and over, however. After a command card is used, it’s discarded and can never be used again during this game!"

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/12/1/orders-from-high-command/