3 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Run multiple intel officers.

Teach them a lesson.

Job done.

Yes it really is that simple. Juggernauts detest intel officers.

Taking more than 1-2 combat ships that actually get mileage out of IO requires lots of points. Especially if you start going mediums or heavy smalls. Then you start scrimping on your own activations, or your squadron defense.. and we're back to triangle where you lose to max squadrons, which is still prevalent with Sloane. And no one is saying YGH 2+3 is bad, its just not present, for a lot of people for the reason that its extremely good, they just don;t want to run it anymore.

Though, IO is also good vs Flots. The problem is getting enough firepower behind it to make it worth while. I even avoided dropping any tokens to two IO Arquitens.

8 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Taking more than 1-2 combat ships that actually get mileage out of IO requires lots of points. Especially if you start going mediums or heavy smalls. Then you start scrimping on your own activations, or your squadron defense.. and we're back to triangle where you lose to max squadrons, which is still prevalent with Sloane. And no one is saying YGH 2+3 is bad, its just not present, for a lot of people for the reason that its extremely good, they just don;t want to run it anymore.

Though, IO is also good vs Flots. The problem is getting enough firepower behind it to make it worth while. I even avoided dropping any tokens to two IO Arquitens.

If you have the mindset that you must have x y and z then you will never learn.

IO works. It needs multiple combat ships.

Ok now build the list. There are no other requirements other than your preconceived ideas.

14 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

If you have the mindset that you must have x y and z then you will never learn.

IO works. It needs multiple combat ships.

Ok now build the list. There are no other requirements other than your preconceived ideas.

Warms my heart I swear.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

Warms my heart I swear.

This absolutely wrecks juggernaut lists. Doesnt like facing multiple combat ships at all. So it depends what you want.

Queequeg
Author: Ginkapo

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 382/400

Commander: Admiral Ozzel

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Sensor Net

[ flagship ] Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier (54 points)
- Admiral Ozzel ( 20 points)
- Squall ( 3 points)
= 77 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 66 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 66 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)
= 92 total ship cost

1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
3 Lambda-class Shuttles ( 45 points)

Card view link

I won Thunder Bay....went 9-9-8

Name: Sloane Igggg aces
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Sloane

Assault: Most Wanted
Defense: Capture the VIP
Navigation: Superior Positions

Imperial I (110)
• Admiral Sloane (24)
• Minister Tua (2)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Leading Shots (4)
• H9 Turbolasers (8)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
= 160 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Comms Net (2)
= 25 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
= 28 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 25 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
= 23 Points

Squadrons:
• Darth Vader (21)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Saber Squadron (12)
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Lambda Shuttle (15)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
= 134 Points

Total Points: 395

I've used this basic list a lot for Q kit play and was very successful with it. I don't believe the lists were grabbed by anyone. This is not what I ran at Fargo and got second with. I decided that it was likely to expect a larger concentration of sqns and I was right...I think every list had near max sqns in it.

First game. 2 hh ext racks. 117? points of generics and Jan orrs. Mc 30 which never fired. And 2 flotillas. Salvation. And corvette cracken. I went 2nd. Capture vip. 9-2 (nick)

2nd game vs a Sloane Mirror list with a quasar fc with one less gozanti. VIP me second. 9-2 (Adam) ended up in top 4.

Then final list was a double vsd. 1 was a 2 with dcaps. JJ list with aces. Raider with flechettes. And 2 goz. I chose hyper assault. He put the dcaps in. And I just sped up and moved away the token with strat. He dropped right away. But I managed to charge ahead. Kill a flotilla all the sqns and the admiral vsd 1. 8-3 (Steven ended up in 2nd overall) Ironically his Flechette torpedo raider actually worked to activate marek, jendon and valen late game which probably saved his other VSD from being nuked. I could have killed the remaining flotilla on turn 5 but I had to choose to shoot out my rear at the VSD that I eventually did destroy as I needed every shot I could to take it down or it would maybe get away.

All 3 games I won the sqn fight only usually losing 3 sqns myself (Vader or marek, mauler and sabre) I only lost 2 goz in one game as sacrifices to prevent the mc 30 and CorvetteA from coming in from behind. Worked perfectly died from ramming and I think one TRC vette shot. the other just eventually ran out of room vs a HH>

There was only 7 players.

I think one player was running Rieekan aces but I never faced him (the US nats version my buddy Mat L ran) but I never got a chance to really look at anyone else list or to confirm that it was indeed full rieekan aces. He got top 4 as well.

And I can confirm that even that set of measuring sticks were all short as well.

8 minutes ago, Mogrok said:

I've used this basic list a lot for Q kit play and was very successful with it. I don't believe the lists were grabbed by anyone. This is not what I ran at Fargo and got second with. I decided that it was likely to expect a larger concentration of sqns and I was right...I think every list had near max sqns in it.

8 minutes ago, Mogrok said:

think one player was running Rieekan aces but I never faced him (the US nats version my buddy Mat L ran) but I never got a chance to really look at anyone else list or to confirm that it was indeed full rieekan aces. He got top 4 as well.

In other news I found a list vs Rebel squadrons. Its 1 ISD + 4 flottillas and 134 squadrons of my own. The counter to squadrons is more squadrons. All big hip hip hooooray for 1+4.

On 1/13/2018 at 11:34 PM, pheaver said:

WV had 36 players! I came in 4th with 3 AFIIA w/ Gunnery Team, 2 flotilla, 4 VCX, Ackbar. Ran Targeting Bacon, Fire Lanes, and Sensor Net.

This sounds very cool. Why the mk2-As instead of Bs? Is it mostly for the 2 blue anti-squadron?

Yup, strictly to have some game against the hordes of squadrons I expected to see. I put a little list explanation in the squad list section.

The flotilla bloating of lists is real

5 hours ago, MandalorianMoose said:

Can we please stop hijacking every thread with this?

Eh, to be fair, the thread is basically pre-hijacked by it.

DFW/ Burleson and Thunder Bay both won by an ISD and 4x Gozers, with second place at DFW an MC80 and 4x GR75s.

Flotilla spam is getting a bit silly.

33 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Eh, to be fair, the thread is basically pre-hijacked by it.

DFW/ Burleson and Thunder Bay both won by an ISD and 4x Gozers, with second place at DFW an MC80 and 4x GR75s.

Flotilla spam is getting a bit silly.

Good thing big ships with big arcs and Gunnery teams can swat them out of the sky with little to no effort...

and dcap Vic’s

and squads

and h9 torpedoes

and Ackbar frigates

and raiders

and CR90rambos

and other flotillas that can just run over them

11 hours ago, MandalorianMoose said:

Good thing big ships with big arcs and Gunnery teams can swat them out of the sky with little to no effort...

and dcap Vic’s

and squads

and h9 torpedoes

and Ackbar frigates

and raiders

and CR90rambos

and other flotillas that can just run over them

Except you have to get in range of them. Relay makes that pretty hard to do without going completely out of the fight just to kill a 18-23 point ship. The data was already skewing toward flotilla heavy fleets, which this weekend is solidifying. The simplest solution is for flotillas to just not count toward tabling and my preferred solution. It's a very small rule change that doesn't invalidate anything, but makes 2+3 or 1+4 very risky.

Just now, Truthiness said:

Except you have to get in range of them. Relay makes that pretty hard to do without going completely out of the fight just to kill a 18-23 point ships. The data was already skewing toward flotilla heavy fleets, which this weekend is solidifying. The simplest solution is for flotillas to just not count toward tabling and my preferred solution. It's a very small rule change that doesn't invalidate anything, but makes 2+3 or 1+4 very risky.

I agree that would definitely help. However, for the time being sometimes the best option is farming the opponents 134+however many flotillas you can bag and then jam out of there. If you are out activated (especially as second player) it can be a fools errand to attempt to go toe to toe with an enemy big unless properly equipped to do so (read: Motti ISD, Lando on anything), so adjust your strategy. 160 points from flotillas and squads nets you the same tournament points that killing a 160 point christmas tree would.

It may not be a sexy win, but it's still a win

Its often really hard to chase down 160 points of small stuff and one of the major difficulties with flotillas is killing them at long range. Specially if the guy keeps his flotillas and squadrons tucked in close to his bruiser, which is the smart play if you expect the enemy to try and nip off a few points and run.

For everyone who throws out the H-9 idea, it is often hard to get enough actual damage to go through from red range once you create the accuracy. You need at least 3 hits to hurt a flotilla at red range because you spend one for a Acc. then one gets evaded, leaving 1 damage. This is a super inefficient use of one of your limited opportunities in a 6 turn game to fire your weapons, only to get 1/4 of the way through a flotilla. No one is arguing that flotillas are hard to kill in at blue range with a little dice manipulation, but flotillas are actively trying to run away from you and maintain red range in most cases, specially if they are empty activations or relay platforms. Relay really turned the usefulness of these ships up to 11 and that is when they went crazy...

13 hours ago, xanderf said:

Eh, to be fair, the thread is basically pre-hijacked by it.

DFW/ Burleson and Thunder Bay both won by an ISD and 4x Gozers, with second place at DFW an MC80 and 4x GR75s.

Flotilla spam is getting a bit silly.

Oh noes! Flotillas are OP! Someone's gotta do something or Armada will be dead!

For my part, I'm fairly certain that this too shall pass, once the meta evolves into fewer squadrons needing less squadron commandeering.

7 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Oh noes! Flotillas are OP! Someone's gotta do something or Armada will be dead!

For my part, I'm fairly certain that this too shall pass, once the meta evolves into fewer squadrons needing less squadron commandeering.

I have not played against multiple flotillas, locally no one owns enough or wants to fly that, and I do not know how good/bad they are (I don't like the idea of them) but I don't want to see a situation like X-Wing where you have a ship or two ruin the meta and the play experience of players and either do nothing or stupid errata in an attempt to fix (and fail and try another and another until the next meta ruining ship is released).

15 hours ago, ripper998 said:

The flotilla bloating of lists is real

As is almost all, if not all, ace squadrons.

49 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Oh noes! Flotillas are OP! Someone's gotta do something or Armada will be dead!

For my part, I'm fairly certain that this too shall pass, once the meta evolves into fewer squadrons needing less squadron commandeering.

Mmmm... for my part, I feel less bad if all the flotillas are actually pushing squads, or are somewhat near the battle. I agree they are not hard to pop with dedicated combat ships if they are in medium range.

The problem (imo of course) is when no-squadron lists are taking 4+ flotillas purely for activation padding. Also when all of those flotillas are hiding in different corners of the board.

Yes, max of 2-3 aces per list would be a nice change. Uniques are just so much tougher because of the tokens, regardless of their abilities. Makes generics hard to justify when for 5-10 more points you could have the same frame with 2 defense tokens, never mind what else special they get.

CC is great for making generics worth it again.

16 minutes ago, Space_Cowboy17 said:

Yes, max of 2-3 aces per list would be a nice change. Uniques are just so much tougher because of the tokens, regardless of their abilities. Makes generics hard to justify when for 5-10 more points you could have the same frame with 2 defense tokens, never mind what else special they get.

Why do we need to limit aces?

49 minutes ago, Thraug said:

As is almost all, if not all, ace squadrons.

@Vergilius was running all generics. I can confirm that squad loadout is scary as heck. At least for my list, I'm picking the aces that bring utility I need (Rhymer for positioning, Howlrunner to make the generics better, Saber to snipe key squads, etc). Pretty sure that's how a lot of the top lists go.

9 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Why do we need to limit aces?

Apparently nothing is balanced in armada.

So:

We need to limit aces, flotillae, deployments, activations, bid, lack of bid, relay, admirals, faction, the moon, fish, etc. until the entire game is reduced to one universally accepted and agreed upon list, objective choice, deployment, style of dice rolling, and pre-approved outcome.

Caption: by late 2018 most of the balance issues brought up on the forums had been resolved by rigorous and iterative play testing and balancing leading FFG to releasing a revised core set containing a mere two dice, one red, one blue. Armada players wasted no time in taking to the forums to immediately proclaim the blue die as clearly being OP.

2 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

Apparently nothing is balanced in armada.

So:

We need to limit aces, flotillae, deployments, activations, bid, lack of bid, relay, admirals, faction, the moon, fish, etc. until the entire game is reduced to one universally accepted and agreed upon list, objective choice, deployment, style of dice rolling, and pre-approved outcome.

Caption: by late 2018 most of the balance issues brought up on the forums had been resolved by rigorous and iterative play testing and balancing leading FFG to releasing a revised core set containing a mere two dice, one red, one blue. Armada players wasted no time in taking to the forums to immediately proclaim the blue die as clearly being OP.

My red dice keeps rolling blanks.

52 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Mmmm... for my part, I feel less bad if all the flotillas are actually pushing squads, or are somewhat near the battle. I agree they are not hard to pop with dedicated combat ships if they are in medium range.

The problem (imo of course) is when no-squadron lists are taking 4+ flotillas purely for activation padding. Also when all of those flotillas are hiding in different corners of the board.

I have 2 for token generation, 1 for repair, and 1 for padding. I'd like to drop the last one, but it's simply the best 23 pts I can spend.