Hi! I need a little clarity about the Force Powers in this game. If a PC performs the Move power to lift a boulder for example, generates only dark points and chooses not to use them... What happens from a narrative point of view? Does she manages to use the Force but the boulder is too heavy? Is her concentration disturbed by her fears or other dark thoughts? Or does she choose simply not to activate the power at all? I never understood this from the books...

Check out page 280 of the F&D core rulebook. It says:

Quote

A Force power is always "successfully" activated, even if the check does not generate any Force points to spend on the power.

Let's use Enhance as an example. A player wants to activate the Enhance basic power to gain successes or advantages on their Athletics check. The player roles their Athletics check along with the Force Die. If the Force Die generates black pips and they choose not to convert them, their Athletics check doesn't benefit from Enhance. So, the power was activated, but didn't benefit the roll it was used on.

Move would be affected similarly. Using your example: The power is activated, but nothing occurs. It could be that their concentration was disrupted, the boulder was beyond their ability, the character recognizes that they are conflicted (represented by the presence of black pips), or any number of other things. Hope this helps.

16 minutes ago, ForceUser said:

Does she manages to use the Force but the boulder is too heavy? Is her concentration disturbed by her fears or other dark thoughts? Or does she choose simply not to activate the power at all?

Mechanically speaking , the power was "activated," so narratively-speaking she at least tried to reach out with the Force. What happens after that could be any of the above that you suggest, or whatever else the player can come up with. Maybe she felt the temptation of the dark side and pulled back sharply. Maybe she exerted all the mental power she had but only managed to make the rock shudder a little before giving up. Maybe her thoughts are elsewhere, and it's a discipline issue. Maybe a nearby blast throws off her concentration.

2 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Mechanically speaking , the power was "activated," so narratively-speaking she at least tried to reach out with the Force. What happens after that could be any of the above that you suggest, or whatever else the player can come up with. Maybe she felt the temptation of the dark side and pulled back sharply. Maybe she exerted all the mental power she had but only managed to make the rock shudder a little before giving up. Maybe her thoughts are elsewhere, and it's a discipline issue. Maybe a nearby blast throws off her concentration.

Came here to basically say this. The narrative description is however you like but the mechanical effect is that you don't gain the benefits if you don't pay the costs.

21 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Mechanically speaking , the power was "activated," so narratively-speaking she at least tried to reach out with the Force. What happens after that could be any of the above that you suggest, or whatever else the player can come up with. Maybe she felt the temptation of the dark side and pulled back sharply. Maybe she exerted all the mental power she had but only managed to make the rock shudder a little before giving up. Maybe her thoughts are elsewhere, and it's a discipline issue. Maybe a nearby blast throws off her concentration.

Yep, pretty much this. Mechanically, nothing happens. Narratively, it's up to the player on how to describe it (or you if they are leaving it up to you). Personally, I usually go for either the "You strain but just can't seem to focus enough, due to your anxiety and fear, and other emotions, clouding your focus." or "You reach out to the Force, but you feel the Dark Side reaching back, hearing the call of your fear and anxiety (etc). Feeling that encroaching dread nearing your heart, you turn away from the power, losing your link to the object you were reaching out to."

In the end, either way is just window dressing. Nothing bad happens to the player (related to not using the power at least) no matter how you describe it.

As others have said the Force Power activates but the desired effect doesn't occur. So in your example the PC Moves the stone just not far enough or high enough or misses the target or whatever.

Whatever you choose is up to you but I would suggest that you always describe it as having done the action just without any positive results. By doing this you maintain the suspension of disbelief and you Player(s) will generally be happier even though they failed their roll.

1 hour ago, FuriousGreg said:

As others have said the Force Power activates but the desired effect doesn't occur. So in your example the PC Moves the stone just not far enough or high enough or misses the target or whatever.

Eh, I would slightly disagree with this, especially if the player actively declines to use the dark pips, or rolls zero in the first place. I would say it would, not be a case where the PC throws it and misses, but that all the PC is able to do, is make it twitch slightly. Like how it took obviously 3 tries on Luke's Move roll to actually pull that lightsaber out of the snowdrift. He kept rolling zero pips, or dark pips, and wasn't having it. So, all we see is a slight twitch in the hilt. Then, on turn 3, he FINALLY rolls pips he's willing to spend, and is able to yoink that thing to him.

46 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

Eh, I would slightly disagree with this, especially if the player actively declines to use the dark pips, or rolls zero in the first place. I would say it would, not be a case where the PC throws it and misses, but that all the PC is able to do, is make it twitch slightly. Like how it took obviously 3 tries on Luke's Move roll to actually pull that lightsaber out of the snowdrift. He kept rolling zero pips, or dark pips, and wasn't having it. So, all we see is a slight twitch in the hilt. Then, on turn 3, he FINALLY rolls pips he's willing to spend, and is able to yoink that thing to him.

I dunno, I don't see that scene taking three turns (it's 20-25 sec screen time). More like a success with a dramatic narration. In any case, something should happen even if you don't use Dark side pips, it could be that the rock only moves slightly and in your frustration you feel the Dark side but drop the rock instead of giving in or maybe you move it but as the strain builds you feel the Dark side or whatever, as long as you don't say "you failed, nothing happens".

We've gone with "you can't focus or concentrate long enough to [accomplish whatever]" - sometimes it's because they're feeling too much fear/anger/hate/suffering, sometimes it's because those pirates' blaster bolts are getting awfully close to their head, and it's been that critical injury they just took being a wee bit too painful.

One thing that I've come to do while GMing in regards to force powers is that if the character is not in structured time, uncontested, has all the time to keep trying an action with resting between attempts, and whatever they are doing is not a plot device, they just auto succeed at the basic power. Saves a little time if one of my players asks me if they can use a power, and I just narrate the results. If they've purchased the necessary upgrades and have FR = the bare number of pips necessary to do it, and all of the above conditions are true, I'll just allow that as well.

Because no one wants to see a force user try the same **** trick over and over again and gum up the narrative.

Also, I don't get why people are so resistant to using black pips. Just touch the darkside a little and use that as a good excuse to role play a meditation session on the ship to "re-center" yourself. Give yourself a reason to explain to the other PC's how the darkside affects force users and why you need to be careful if and when you decide to use it.

You will not irrevocably trash your character's morality from using 1 or 2 black pips in a session.

9 minutes ago, TrystramK said:

Also, I don't get why people are so resistant to using black pips. Just touch the darkside a little and use that as a good excuse to role play a meditation session on the ship to "re-center" yourself. Give yourself a reason to explain to the other PC's how the darkside affects force users and why you need to be careful if and when you decide to use it.

You will not irrevocably trash your character's morality from using 1 or 2 black pips in a session.

Despite a billion warnings, players of mine still don't remember "you have a 60% chance to not lose any Morality even if you take up to 5 Conflict in a session. You have a 50% chance to GAIN Morality!"'

Player apprehension to gaining Conflict is why I can't stand the RAW regarding intervening to ask "Are you sure you want to do that? You'll take Conflict". It affects their decision. It's the same as if they planned to attack an arms dealer to steal his shipment and I go "are you sure you want to do that? You might get injured." It's built-in meta-gaming.

18 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

Despite a billion warnings, players of mine still don't remember "you have a 60% chance to not lose any Morality even if you take up to 5 Conflict in a session. You have a 50% chance to GAIN Morality!"'

Player apprehension to gaining Conflict is why I can't stand the RAW regarding intervening to ask "Are you sure you want to do that? You'll take Conflict". It affects their decision. It's the same as if they planned to attack an arms dealer to steal his shipment and I go "are you sure you want to do that? You might get injured." It's built-in meta-gaming.

I think the conflict warning is there because the Force's (GM's) view of things may differ from that of the characters, or ever what happened an hour ago. A player knows that stealing from the arms dealer has various risks. It is harder to guess whether there will be conflict involved. I may think I'm stopping a terrible slaughter in the only way possible. The GM might think I'm a lousy thief who wants a lot of guns.

Regardless, theft still happened, which would accrue conflict. The only difference is whether you take 2 or 3 Conflict which IMO should be discussed at the end of the session rather than in the middle of things.

I phrase the question when my players say something that would be an action that would gain conflict, "Is that you discussing the option out of character, or is your character actually doing that?"

I refuse to follow the rulebook guidance you have to spell out conflict gaining actions all the time. Maybe for a story arc I'll give an overarching warning that they are about to embark on a story that will have situations that will garner major conflict based on their actions. But I've found as you all have alluded to, that there is too much of a meta game there.

One other thing I do is make Light side paragon/dark side user not automatic when they hit the threshold, but must involve something significant in the narrative that puts them firmly in the camp of that side of the force.