8 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

VSD-IIs have come into favor due to Disposable Capacitors, but VSD-Is were far and away the superior VSD for many waves. The important thing to keep in mind is the black dice are a deterrent. You won't get regular use from them in general (about 0-2 times per game I'd say). You can have a very affordable little pain triangle with just QBTs and External Racks for a very reasonable 81 points (Gunnery Team optional, but brings it up to 90).

I know @geek19 has had some success using 2 Torpedo Hammerheads and 1 Scout Hammerhead in a 3-man group, all with Task Force Organa. Throw a Gunnery Team, QBTs, and D Caps on the Scout Hammerhead and it can lay down more spray and pray than you'd think (especially with commander Leia for the concentrate fire +die and reroll) and can generally rely on the Torp Hammerheads' Task Force Organa 2-dice rerolls when necessary, as the Torps are frequently maneuvering in for close ranged attacks on the turn the Scout goes all-out.

In terms of running them en masse, I'm not sure it's a great plan. Intensify Firepower might change that, but we'll see.

Overall I also prefer the Star Cruiser, but a Battle Cruiser outfitted to excel at long range (usually with Spinals, Leading Shots, H9s, and Gunnery Team) can get it done in ways a Battle Cruiser can't, should long range excellence be a thing you're willing to pay (big) for. In general the Star Cruiser is an easier fit as it doesn't want as many upgrades and most people want the LMC80 for battlecruiser/half-ISD duties, which it does perfectly well.

Dangit, now I gotta squeeze in a scout to that list of mine....

6 hours ago, IronNerd said:

I'd love to be convinced of their worth, but outside of the first couple games where people tried them, they don't show up in lists around here.

As far as non-Command Pelta builds, I ran a Sato MC 30 Scout list with an Assault Pelta and Entrapment formation for a while. My thought on that was slow rolling for black crits at long range with mc30s (same as everyone else and their mothers at the time), followed by a burst of speed (Entrapment plus Nav command) to get behind the target and finish them off from the flank.

I got it to work, but never to excel. I want go back and refine the style of play for that list.

I find it interesting that 2 of my favorite ships are coming up.

MC-80BC w/ leading shots , XI7, and spinal (or enhanced arm) works very well for me. 2 black AA shreads TIE's too

RAF-A I use to support a flank and then swing wide. I like to drive it through fighter screens after my fighters engage where the extra AA does good. One of the few places I will consider QLT if I'm runing light squadrons. Afterwards, with a dial it does the same from every arc so it can then swing wide and hit flanks.

I can't seem to find a place where I like hammerheads (either). They don't seem to pull their weight to me, would rather a CR90B w/ SW7 everytime I try them. Always seems to end just out of black range or I roll bad, and I don't want to add OE for like 1 round when I pop External racks.

MC30s:
Ackbar, TRC, and Intel Officer.
Pack a heck of a wallop in a small frame.

Combat Refit.
I've had a lot of success running one in one of two formats.

1: ISD Support "Heavy Cruiser"
Combat Refit w/DCaps ,Projection Experts, Targeting Scrambler
-Great ship for softening up or finishing off an ISD target while easily staying in formation with.
-Very forgiving ship for Rookie Imp Admirals

2: Medium Carrier.
Combat Refit with Expanded Hanger bay and other upgrades
-High hull, good defensive suite, Blue and Black anti squadron means it can wade into a squadron fight and support squads.
-Can command 3 Squads base or 4 with a token(easy to get with Comms Net Goz or Yularen)

13 hours ago, IronNerd said:

Is it just because I don't like heavy squadron lists? Even then, why does it beat out the AFmk2B? I completely don't understand. It's slow and it doesn't swing very hard...

I'd love to be convinced of their worth, but outside of the first couple games where people tried them, they don't show up in lists around here.

Try one or two of them with Disposable Capacitors, Projection Experts, and Shields to Maximum next to a Liberty. Quite fun.

GSD2 - I’ve upgraded the stock Demo (Demo, Int/Skilled Officer, Ord Experts, ETs and Ord Upgarde) to a GSD2 to go with a cheap fight screen (48-60pts)... it’s gotten work done. Flak before and after the attack run (frequently right after I’ve made my pass since many heavy squad groups target the Demo).

Add in the Jonus angle and it can be worth it in some situations.

16 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Victory-class star destroyers of any kind

DCaps, and H9s!

Assault Gonzatis. Can't figure out why theyre even a thing. The other version of the Quasar, never even put it down on the table yet.

I run the AFMK2A when I run heavy bombers or few squads - equip H9s + Ruthless with Toryn somewhere behind her, and you're going to do 2 damage even to scatter aces. It's main drawback for using it this way - that's a ton of points spent on a great AA ship, that won't be able to do a whole lot against other ships. Neb-B Escort can do practically the same thing, with Yavaris as insurance...

but my current favorite AA is the ISD II built with: Kallus and H9s - (also activate Mauler) that's 3 damage onto all the Scatter aces in range. Goodbye Soontir, Howlrunner, Valen, Enemy Mauler, and all those other aceholes....what I like about the ISD it's so well rounded, it's still a threat to other ships built this way.

Arquitens. Always gets blown away. Perhaps I need more than one but it just tends to get in one long range shot then gets closed with and destroyed.

Raider. Using it as fighter support sees it being mobbed by the enemy fighters and destroyed. Operating as a close in "knife fighter" against capital ships it gets one decent blow in but then gets destroyed.

The Interdictor I do better with but its single redirect and brace tokens mean it flatters to deceive when it comes to defending itself.

I'm not saying these ships are underpowered, it's clearly me who isn't building them quite right or using them optimally.

18 hours ago, Church14 said:

-GSD2

Does anyone have:

A) Builds for these variants that have worked?

DemoNger Squad (383/400)
=======================
Imperial I-class Star Destroyer (110 + 36)
+ Moff Jerjerrod (23)
+ Skilled First Officer (1)
+ Boarding Troopers (3)
+ Leading Shots (4)
+ Avenger (5)
Gladiator II-class Star Destroyer (62 + 28)
+ Skilled First Officer (1)
+ Ordnance Experts (4)
+ Engine Techs (8)
+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
+ Demolisher (10)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
Ciena Ree (17)
Mauler Mithel (15)
Valen Rudor (13)
Jumpmaster 5000 (12)
Black Squadron (9)
Tie Fighter Squadron (8)
Advanced Gunnery
Hyperspace assault
Solar Corona

Is there a ship variant I have not found a good use for?

Why yes!

The following list pretty much covers it:

• Assault FRigate Mk.II A
• Assault FRigate Mk.II B
• CR90 Corvette A
• CR90 Corvette B
• Nebulon-B Support Refit
• Nebulon-B Escort Frigate
• MC80 Assault Cruiser
• MC80 Command Cruiser
• MC30C Scout Frigate
• MC30C Torpedo Frigate
• GR-75 Medium Transports
• GR-75 Combat Retrofits
• MC80 Star Cruiser
• MC80 Battle Cruiser
• Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship
• Modified Pelta-class Command Ship
• Hammerhead Scout Corvette
• Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette
• MC75 Armored Cruiser
• MC75 Ordnance Cruiser

Tbh there are only 3 ok ships in the game

ISD-2

Demo-I

Gozanti (there exists only one version)

18 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Gozanti (there exists only one version)

"There can be only one!"

1 hour ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

"There can be only one!"

"Always two there are, no more, no less."

37 minutes ago, Ritalbringer said:

"Always two there are, no more, no less."

Four you mean

23 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Victory-class star destroyers of any kind

Sorry, I can't hear you over all the engine rumbling!

2 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Is there a ship variant I have not found a good use for?

Why yes!

The following list pretty much covers it:

• Assault FRigate Mk.II A
• Assault FRigate Mk.II B
• CR90 Corvette A
• CR90 Corvette B
• Nebulon-B Support Refit
• Nebulon-B Escort Frigate
• MC80 Assault Cruiser
• MC80 Command Cruiser
• MC30C Scout Frigate
• MC30C Torpedo Frigate
• GR-75 Medium Transports
• GR-75 Combat Retrofits
• MC80 Star Cruiser
• MC80 Battle Cruiser
• Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship
• Modified Pelta-class Command Ship
• Hammerhead Scout Corvette
• Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette
• MC75 Armored Cruiser
• MC75 Ordnance Cruiser

These are all excellent for target practice.

6 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

DemoNger Squad (383/400)
=======================
Imperial I-class Star Destroyer (110 + 36)
+ Moff Jerjerrod (23)
+ Skilled First Officer (1)
+ Boarding Troopers (3)
+ Leading Shots (4)
+ Avenger (5)
Gladiator II-class Star Destroyer (62 + 28)
+ Skilled First Officer (1)
+ Ordnance Experts (4)
+ Engine Techs (8)
+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
+ Demolisher (10)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2)
+ Comms Net (2)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
Ciena Ree (17)
Mauler Mithel (15)
Valen Rudor (13)
Jumpmaster 5000 (12)
Black Squadron (9)
Tie Fighter Squadron (8)
Advanced Gunnery
Hyperspace assault
Solar Corona

So with that many squads and no Jonus, why GSD2 over GSD1?

I do get the Jonus/GSD2 theory even if we never get it to work on the table.

3 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Is there a ship variant I have not found a good use for?

Why yes!

The following list pretty much covers it:

• Assault FRigate Mk.II A
• Assault FRigate Mk.II B
• CR90 Corvette A
• CR90 Corvette B
• Nebulon-B Support Refit
• Nebulon-B Escort Frigate
• MC80 Assault Cruiser
• MC80 Command Cruiser
• MC30C Scout Frigate
• MC30C Torpedo Frigate
• GR-75 Medium Transports
• GR-75 Combat Retrofits
• MC80 Star Cruiser
• MC80 Battle Cruiser
• Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship
• Modified Pelta-class Command Ship
• Hammerhead Scout Corvette
• Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette
• MC75 Armored Cruiser
• MC75 Ordnance Cruiser

Strange, I'm seeing a trend here.

Why so much hate (more like mild distain honestly) on the MC80 liberty round here? I'm legit curious.

22 minutes ago, Church14 said:

So with that many squads and no Jonus, why GSD2 over GSD1?

I do get the Jonus/GSD2 theory even if we never get it to work on the table.

Anti squadron fire.

Those "many" squadrons are just 6. One escort that will stand one shot and done. The TIE and the Jump will die quickly. They are to engage and put damage but they are just not enough against 134 of squadrons. Demo helps in those pairings.

I thought on Jonus but he doesn't engage nor makes damage against squadrons.

However that was the fleet I brought to the national. It is waiting for corrections after its competitive adventure. But GladII->GladI is not one of them. Seriously those blue dice are great with Demo (everything is great with Demo). I will agree gladI is a better option if you don't need AA fire though.

Joke already done.

(Great post and topic! Thanks OP.)

Owed to the secret gladiator...

I'm drawn to the Glad-II because of the 2 AA dice (and 2 Squadron Command). I played a 'janky' list for a CC campaign with Ruthless Strategists, TIE-B's, and a set of Glad-II's. The squadron game was glorious and the thought "Stay on Target" wouldn't leave my mind. The bombers usually hit their target early in turn 3 without any further troubles from the cap (except maybe dodging the debris).

Maybe it was not top tier, but I think it surprised all the veterans in the campaign that the non-Demo Glad-II could be a monster Squadron enabler.

9 hours ago, Bolshevik65 said:

Arquitens. Always gets blown away. Perhaps I need more than one but it just tends to get in one long range shot then gets closed with and destroyed.

Had this the othe day myself. Was the first time I used them tho. 2 of these did not do hardly any significant damage.

33 minutes ago, ISD Avenger said:

Had this the othe day myself. Was the first time I used them tho. 2 of these did not do hardly any significant damage.

The important thing with Arquitens is to make sure you gang up on something. They have a difficult time double-arcing so if they only get the one side-arc shot on a single target that's otherwise not getting attacked that round, it's going to suck (due to defense tokens). They work better when they pick on something that's getting attacked by other sources as well so that their damage sticks better.

Instead of/in addition to that, Intel Officers are fairly legit choices for them to limit the effectiveness of defense tokens.