21 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

VSDs are what this title is made for, in my estimation.

ISDs are too big to make use of this title except on the approach (too easy to shoot into the side). Paired GSDs could use this, if you want to save points and want to explore something that isnt' Demolisher (Twin GSDs with D-Racks, Ordnance Experts). But I think a VSD wall on close-ranks approach could use this as it is closing to shed away some damage while it is closing.

VSDs don't have a super-desired title to compete with the 7th fleet ones, so it's not like you're missing much by taking 7th fleet (Warlord's it really).

I think so as well. Trips VSD’s with the titles, my main concern being that without a defensive retrofit your covering a weakness vs building a strength.

I also thought maybe a cymoon with shields to max and covering vsd’s on the flanks. Of course, you’d be hamstringing your ISD’s manueverability by shackling them to VSD’s. But so many points...I dunno. I dont get deep into listbuilding until I see the whole set anyway. These are just off the cuff thoughts I had.

4 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I think so as well. Trips VSD’s with the titles, my main concern being that without a defensive retrofit your covering a weakness vs building a strength.

I also thought maybe a cymoon with shields to max and covering vsd’s on the flanks. Of course, you’d be hamstringing your ISD’s manueverability by shackling them to VSD’s. But so many points...I dunno. I dont get deep into listbuilding until I see the whole set anyway. These are just off the cuff thoughts I had.

Remember 1-4 is a pretty big distance.

18 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Remember 1-4 is a pretty big distance.

True. In my head tho i have them sticking in close formation but you’re right thats an artificial limitation of my own design.

7th fleet would be "ok" if it worked for attacks from all directions.

But 5 points for each ship that work only against attacks in the front? No way.
This way it a rather bad card for the GSD. It is really only good on a swarm of VSDs. But 5 points for each VSD make this really an expensive gamble.

Chimaera+stm for the same price. But this combo wont prevent an early death... we will see. For 3 points, id probably use them, but not for 5.

7 hours ago, Madaghmire said:

I dont understand how its only good if your opponent splits fire?

Cause you need 2 titles to prevent 1 dmg. Basically the idea around the critics is that you will find yourself using x-1 titles where X is the number of titles in your fleet so 5 points are wasted. Splitting fire allows using every title so that would be the good scenario.

1 title = useless

2 titles = inefficient if fire is focused

3+ titles = useful against focused fire but is still inefficient.

7 hours ago, hulldown said:

I hadn't really considered gladiators (because Demolisher) but this suddenly gives me an odd ball idea. ISD with a GladDoctor or two.

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer - Ordnance Experts - Projection Experts - External Racks - Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (74)

Having one or two of these protecting a fully kitted ISD's flanks, absorbing damage with 7th fleet and throwing it shields could be interesting. Maybe even put Grint or Wulff on there.

You also could upgrade then to gladII. AA fire!

OK so how much damage I need to kill your ISD?

Hmm 1 hull left + 3 thanks to Motti + obstructed + nearby 7th fleet mate + brace + 1 shield to redirect... you simply cannot. That's gonna activate before dying for sure.

I am not completely sold on this title but I think some positive thinking is also needed.

Don't forget it's post-brace.

So that 1 pt can often be 2 incoming dmg.

(clearly this will bring Tagge to the top admirals tier again)

It is good much the same way Major Derlin is good.

Vics are the ones who want this I think. Glads don't have wide enough of a front arc to make good use of it and ISDs are just too expensive to get multiples. A Triple VSD carrier fleet though? I could see that working. @CaribbeanNinja time to resurrect that fleet.

VSDs may want the 7th fleet upgrade but they are also the least able to keep the enemy on their front shields. They have a low speed and poor yaw values.

Moff JerJerrod or Konstantine with tractors could make it more use but I still think kitting out 2-3 ships with 7th fleet is too expensive.

As one of the few people to consistently run 3 "Star Destroyers" and win tournaments with it, I don't see this title being all too useful. My current build is a Vic II, Demo, Insidious, 2 Raiders, and a Comms Net.

By removing both my titles, I have 13 points, and I'm sure I could find something to cut to get 2 points for 15 total. So now I have 3 7th fleet ships and I can start reducing damage. But now I have lost Demo, which is equivalent of a long range attack, and Insidious, which is medium. I've severely restricted my ability to use black dice beyond close range, which means I removed 2 of my threats. I'd also anticipate the Vic being the one who will be using this upgrade since it's front is so big, while the Glads are rather narrow and easy to hit the side arcs, which also happen to be the arc it wants to attack with.

If I actually wanted to reduce any damage, I'm far better off taking Demo and sitting outside of long range before jumping into close and attacking. Dropping Demo for 7th fleet will be a mistake every time.

Triple Vic is interesting and much more likely to work as @Truthiness says. However, 3 Vics means 3 activations and a bunch of squads. The best way to beat a low activation carrier fleet is to have more activations, since the carriers must activate and waste Squad commands. So simply taking 5 ships, which is normal, will give you an advantage up until engagement, and you should be able to navigate around the front arc, even if they take JJ. Or grab XI7 and watch them wither away. A Vic with no shields is a dead Vic.

Just the thoughts of someone who loves Vics.

49 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

Vics are the ones who want this I think. Glads don't have wide enough of a front arc to make good use of it and ISDs are just too expensive to get multiples. A Triple VSD carrier fleet though? I could see that working. @CaribbeanNinja time to resurrect that fleet.

Quad. 4x VSD I with 7th Fleet and 3x Quad Battery. Combined with Konstantine and you are left with 50 points. This is enough for a few squadrons or two Gozanti with Comms Net.

The only problem that remains: it only work against front attack. And this is to easy to bypass. It can easy happen that you wasted 20 points in an upgrade that does nothing in the match.

Edit: and a petition for the next FAQ.
The Gozanti-Class cruiser should be renamed to Gozanti-Class Star Destroyer .

I don't think it's going to be tremendously useful right out the gate (it's best used on 3+ star destroyers), but as more types of star destroyers and/or updated/expanded star destroyer options (like if the VSD ever gets the Chimaera treatment) become available, it could become more relevant.

Nothing necessarily wrong with that. H9 Turbolasers were garbage until suddenly they weren't.

Non max squad Sloane list runs a deadly screen which means ships do not need to fear squads. So if you outfit these lists with gladiator, which are ok carriers, you can add 7th fleet to make your ships sturdy against enemy fire too.

Where is the flaw in adding multiple damage prevention measures?

Is it helpful to start a topic to discuss the negatives rather than looking at the positives and being constructive? Half the battle is looking at things from a positive perspective.

1 hour ago, Tokra said:

Edit: and a petition for the next FAQ.
The Gozanti-Class cruiser should be renamed to Gozanti-Class Star Destroyer .

It's called Bright hope.

It only costs 2 points and works from 2 more hull zones, it doesn't exhaust or require you to purchase several and keep them near each other.

Just now, Mad Cat said:

It's called Bright hope.

It only costs 2 points and works from 2 more hull zones, it doesn't exhaust or need you to purchase several and keep them near each other.

But it’s also unique and only protects a flotilla.

My problem with 7th fleet (and for that matter the MC title) is that you have to give up the good titles that we already use. Does anyone want to use a Gladiator with out Demo on it? All for the chance of blocking 1 damage to the front arc? If these could be used on top of regular titles...maybe.

31 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

My problem with 7th fleet (and for that matter the MC title) is that you have to give up the good titles that we already use. Does anyone want to use a Gladiator with out Demo on it? All for the chance of blocking 1 damage to the front arc? If these could be used on top of regular titles...maybe.

What good Victory titles? ?

I mean, I don’t think I’ve used Corruptor since 2015...

25 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

What good Victory titles? ?

If Dominator didnt have the stupid range restriction, it would be an excellent title. And since its 12 points and costs shields to trigger, I dont even think it needs any other adjustments.

Corrupter will be good as soon as Imps get a slow, high damage bomber. Annnnnny day now.

Warlord is too expensive and imps simply have better dice mods.

I feel like these were the first titles ffg worked on at all, and they wanted to make sure they didnt overdo it.

Like with Yavaris.

13 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

Like with Yavaris.

35 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

If Dominator didnt have the stupid range restriction, it would be an excellent title. And since its 12 points and costs shields to trigger, I dont even think it needs any other adjustments.

Nope. It would go great with either version as well if it worked at long range.

Quote

Corrupter will be good as soon as Imps get a slow, high damage bomber. Annnnnny day now.

Was there an FAQ about this maxing at 5? I'm certain there is but I haven't even looked at this title in so long.

Quote

I feel like these were the first titles ffg worked on at all, and they wanted to make sure they didnt overdo it.

Like with Yavaris.

Yeah corrupter maxes at 5.

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

What good Victory titles? ?

I mean, I don’t think I’ve used Corruptor since 2015...

Well obviously not Vics. I can't remember the last time I put a title on a Vic. Warlord is too expensive, Corrupter would be loved by the rebels, but almost unnecessary for the Imps, and Dominator is ok, but the range restriction and the self sacrificial aspect coupled with the extreme cost makes it a no-go. While the Vic is an OK candidate for this, it's highly limited. If you combine Vics with other destroyers...well, those other destroyers have better titles. And Vics by themselves could be a good team if used right, but sacrificing 15 points to block minimal damage from one specific arc that your enemy wants to avoid anyways makes it pointless.

So while Vics don't have a go-to title, I think they exist in a state where no title is the go-to title for them.

Group titles need to belong to lower cost ships. Take a group title with 3 ships. Remove any one of those ships from play and you have also weakened the effect of 2 other ships titles by 50%. The value of those titles diminish as the numbers of their formation fall. Take out another ship and you've entirely negated the living ship's title. I'd argue that other ship titles increase in value as fellow ships are removed from play as that ship is having to bear more of the burden for the fleet.

This doesn't affect small ships like HHs as you expect to lose them, account for that, and the overall diminishing value issue is lessoned due to them being a smaller part of your overall plan. When you are tying your only 3 ships together with a group title, you're locking yourself into a very obvious and very dangerous situation.