9 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Cause you need 2 titles to prevent 1 dmg. Basically the idea around the critics is that you will find yourself using x-1 titles where X is the number of titles in your fleet so 5 points are wasted. Splitting fire allows using every title so that would be the good scenario.

1 title = useless

2 titles = inefficient if fire is focused

3+ titles = useful against focused fire but is still inefficient.

My problem with this explaination is that while it may be technically true depending on how you define “efficient”, it has no real world application, or at best a misleading one.

If the damage prevention consistently saves your 70+ point ship, or feeds into a strategy that allows for that, or forces your opponent to behave suboptimally for them so you can win, its worth it.

If it doesn’t provide any impact, either by forcing your opponent to change their approach in a manner you can leverage, or the ship would have lived/died anyway, its not.

I don't think this card is any good for tourney play, and is also quite boring. Without much thought, it could have been interesting, and useful, as:

While defending against an attack that targets your left or right side, before you suffer damage, you may choose and exhaust a copy of this card on another friendly ship at long range to reduce the total damage by 2.

Not easy to manage, but worth attempting.

46 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

My problem with this explaination is that while it may be technically true depending on how you define “efficient”, it has no real world application, or at best a misleading one.

If the damage prevention consistently saves your 70+ point ship, or feeds into a strategy that allows for that, or forces your opponent to behave suboptimally for them so you can win, its worth it.

If it doesn’t provide any impact, either by forcing your opponent to change their approach in a manner you can leverage, or the ship would have lived/died anyway, its not.

That's exactly how I see the title. ISDs are tanky enough to make several uses of the title even if it is just one dmg per round. Also, the damage output needed to destroy it is already high. 1 single point could be incredibly unaffordable for many ships.

True, but can't you get more value for your 10-15 points, especially when an Avenger ISD can wreck almost any ship in the game with one volley.

• 10 points to stop 0-2 damage a game; not easy to manage
• 8 points to almost guarantee blowing up any target on the board; point & shoot

EDIT: 2 points for the7th Fleet title seems more reasonable?

This was what I am leaning toward for 7th Fleet.... it essentially forces you to play Most Wanted against 3 ships you don't want to play most wanted against. Admiral could go up to Vader or down to Motti for more or less points/bid.

7th Fleet
Author: Brobafett

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 396/400

Commander: Grand Admiral Thrawn

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Sensor Net

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
- Grand Admiral Thrawn ( 32 points)
- 7th Fleet ( 5 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- Shields to Maximum! ( 6 points)
= 178 total ship cost

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
- 7th Fleet ( 5 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 85 total ship cost

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
- 7th Fleet ( 5 points)

- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 78 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

2 Lambda-class Shuttles ( 30 points)

12 minutes ago, Thraug said:

True, but can't you get more value for your 10-15 points, especially when an Avenger ISD can wreck almost any ship in the game with one volley.

• 10 points to stop 0-2 damage a game; not easy to manage
• 8 points to almost guarantee blowing up any target on the board; point & shoot

EDIT: 2 points for the7th Fleet title seems more reasonable?

Maybe. I’m not arguing for the Seventh Fleet, just against arguments I’ve seen brought forth when I feel they don’t stand on their own.

Like this one!

1. 10 pts to stop 0-2 damage- If this is what happens, then sure. But you can argue agaisnt anything when you set the parameters so favorably for your own side. And if that two damage is the difference between the ship surviving or not, especially if the ship is an ISD...10 points to preserve 110+ is pretty good. But I mean, your max range on this is still on what I’d consider its minimum, unless its presence is forcing your opponent to take different shots, which as I’ve already said should be counted in its favor. You are also running less instances in this example then several posters have hypothesized to be the ideal number.

2. BTVenger is great, but not a great comparison. First of all, Seventh Fleet is a defensive title, Avenger is offensive, so the kind of fleet that is considering one probably isnt considering the other. Second, Avenger is soley an ISD title, where Seventh Fleet can be equipped by Imps, Vics and Glads. Not only that, but BTVenger is most effective on ISD-1’s, as the lower squad values on the Cymoon and Kuat refits mitigate its efficacy. Especially the Kuat, who would have otherwise completely supplanted the 1. The 2 suffers from having one less die, and a lower ceiling. Plus, BTVenger is going to be a high activation fleet in order to make it work, wheras I think seventh is not. So its not “should i get seventh fleet on this or btvenger” its “which fleet type do I want to build” (and sure, in a tourny its probably btvenger). Finally, Seventh is built around staying power, wheras BTVenger is often like an oversexed teenager; rushing in, blowing its load, rolling over and falling asleep for the rest of the match. And I think if you get to say “BTVenger” which by its nature is the combination effect of two distinct upgrades, the counter should be like Seventh and STM!, which is now ostensibly negating 2 damage a round. Which is kinda cute. You can do more to make your ISD an unassailable fortress too.

Which again, isnt me saying I think Seventh Fleet is a great card or anything. I’m very much of the opinion that the lack of cheap supplemental platform to get multiple instances, and its lack of synergy with the interdictor, is going to make it difficult to create the fleet it wants to be a part of, and keep it relegated to cameo appearances on the competitive scene. But saying why take it when you could take BTVenger is like saying why take Salvation when you could take Yavaris. Both are titles for the same ship, but that ship will be doing wildly different things.

8 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

This was what I am leaning toward for 7th Fleet.... it essentially forces you to play Most Wanted against 3 ships you don't want to play most wanted against. Admiral could go up to Vader or down to Motti for more or less points/bid.

7th Fleet
Author: Brobafett

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 396/400

Commander: Grand Admiral Thrawn

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Sensor Net

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
- Grand Admiral Thrawn ( 32 points)
- 7th Fleet ( 5 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- Shields to Maximum! ( 6 points)
= 178 total ship cost

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
- 7th Fleet ( 5 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 85 total ship cost

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
- 7th Fleet ( 5 points)

- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 78 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

2 Lambda-class Shuttles ( 30 points)

I like it, but;

TRCs wont work on the Cymoon, no evade.

Shara Bey would wreck your day. Take nets, stop strategic shenanigans. Honestly, any fleet carrying significant squadron support is going to simply take nets and blow your lambdas. If they have their own lambdas/vcxs, this could turn on you quickly. I get that you want to supplement with flak, but doing so is going to be easier on paper then on the table if you want to farm tokens.

I would just make you go first. 3 ships, I can probably activation shenanigan around you.

Creative tho. And I love glad doctors.

i wonder if there will even be enough copies in the box to make it worth while!

Just now, Irokenics said:

i wonder if there will even be enough copies in the box to make it worth while!

You mean you dont have six sets on preorder?! You’re not a real fan.

40 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

i wonder if there will even be enough copies in the box to make it worth while!

Believe it said there were two copies, though I may be misremembering. And I'm on mobile so too lazy to go check. Though the box seems tailored to support triple ISD play, with just one Chimaera, so it seems inconsistent to only have two of the titles designed for that...

1 hour ago, BrobaFett said:

This was what I am leaning toward for 7th Fleet.... it essentially forces you to play Most Wanted against 3 ships you don't want to play most wanted against. Admiral could go up to Vader or down to Motti for more or less points/bid.

7th Fleet
Author: Brobafett

(...)

This is pretty close to what I was thinking. Thrawn seems a natural addition since he allows you to engineer turns 2-5 and still perform your normal actions but Vader would work way better with the Cymoon (and could be paid for by dropping Ord Experts).

48 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

i wonder if there will even be enough copies in the box to make it worth while!

Annnd that's what I'm worried about. The preview spread implies there's only two in there, which is below what consensus seems to agree is actually useful. Buying one Chimaera brings me up to four ISDs as is, so I guess it'll have to be beg/borrow come tournament time.

But hey they're including three bases worth of the new refits in the box so, y'know, hope springs eternal.

1 hour ago, Madaghmire said:

I like it, but;

TRCs wont work on the Cymoon, no evade.

Oooo...then swap out Tua (and then ECMs) for Captain Needa! Drop Contain for Evade. Then put in XI7s along with TRCs. 1 point cheaper, very punchy, but a little less tanky without the ECMs.

Feel like you need more upgrades?

Dont want more of the ships they come with?

Heres the solution for you!

Talk to your FLGS today about creating a 'Donations fleet'.

Buy the ship, keep the upgrades and donate the rest to the fleet!

When new players come in looking to play a game, its no issue! Theres a donations fleet ready to go, with all the things bar upgrades needed to play - perfect for a new players fleet.

Helping your community and yourself.

Maybe wave 8 will have Tector "star destroyer" and "MC" 80 wingless Liberty and therefore additional copies of the two titles.

8 hours ago, Madaghmire said:

My problem with this explaination is that while it may be technically true depending on how you define “efficient”, it has no real world application, or at best a misleading one.

If the damage prevention consistently saves your 70+ point ship, or feeds into a strategy that allows for that, or forces your opponent to behave suboptimally for them so you can win, its worth it.

If it doesn’t provide any impact, either by forcing your opponent to change their approach in a manner you can leverage, or the ship would have lived/died anyway, its not.

This is the right case.

Repair Crews is not efficient.

9 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

This is the right case.

Repair Crews is not efficient.

Ok...but I thought we were talking about Seventh Fleet? I’m afraid your point went over my head.

8 hours ago, Thraug said:

I don't think this card is any good for tourney play, and is also quite boring. Without much thought, it could have been interesting, and useful, as:

While defending against an attack that targets your left or right side, before you suffer damage, you may choose and exhaust a copy of this card on another friendly ship at long range to reduce the total damage by 2.

Not easy to manage, but worth attempting.

Note the ffg also attempts to follow lore. Seventh fleet as seen in the shows were known for holding formation according to Thrawn's orders and keeping their front pointed at the rebels, which resulted in a good winning strategy until konstantine pulled stunts. Probably if they wanted to affect the sides as well the seventh fleet name would be changed to another name.

Also, not to say that a variant of what u propose is impossible, but it makes Isds that much harder to break, since even with flanking it is that much harder to get damage in. maybe reduce the total damage by 1 instead like the current title, but to sides, and only happens when the attacker is at long range. Makes trc90s weaker. Or if only happens at close range, makes squadrons weaker. (All baseless speculation ofc )

I'm not sure how I feel about the card, because you need to spend at least 10 points to make it work and you will have if you play it right 3 rounds of them shooting your front so in total you will dump 3 damage so if used effectively it gives you just as much as motti dose and he costs 24 and with smart maneuvering you could maybe get that up to 4 so I think it will have it's useses I'm still up in the air about it I'll have to play it to really get a feel for it I think.

The ultimate slow roll.. could sub for Motti as well

EMPIRE FLEET 399

1 • Victory II-class Star Destroyer - Victory-class Star Destroyer (85) - Moff Jerjerrod (23) - Gunnery Team (7) - Disposable Capacitors (3) - Leading Shots (4) - Quad Battery Turrets (5) - Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (5)
• Total : 132 • Code : e2c16w1g7i3t11f44
2 • Victory II-class Star Destroyer - Victory-class Star Destroyer (85) - Gunnery Team (7) - Disposable Capacitors (3) - Leading Shots (4) - Quad Battery Turrets (5) - Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (5)
• Total : 109 • Code : e2w1g7i3t11f44
3 • Victory II-class Star Destroyer - Victory-class Star Destroyer (85) - Gunnery Team (7) - Disposable Capacitors (3) - Leading Shots (4) - Quad Battery Turrets (5) - Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (5)
• Total : 109 • Code : e2w1g7i3t11f44
4 • Gozanti-class Cruisers - Gozanti (23) - Repair Crews (4)
• Total : 27 • Code : e27b4
5 • TIE Interceptor Squadron - TIE Interceptor (11)
• Total : 11 • Code : e7
6 • TIE Interceptor Squadron - TIE Interceptor (11)
• Total : 11 • Code : e7