I just can't see how its going to be mathematically effective. 10 its to reduce dmg by 1 ONLY to front every turn? If your enemy is smart and focus fires one SD. If they're not and spreading fire among VSDs or ISDs... well, you didn't need the 1 point help to each ship there. (I could see Glads MAYBE using this.)

I think it works better the smaller the ship it's on. I doubt you'll see it at all on ISD's, vic's might use it but could be cost prohibitive. I think the same about the MC one, but seem pretty mediocre

Good point. But I think the MC one is slightly more malleable. And it combos with plenty of other upgrades.

Eng Team + token + dial = 5 + 3 = 8 +2 more for MC exodus = 10 engineering points a turn. Whooo. 5 shields and that's focused on whatever is actually dying.

for jank, add projection experts.

The rule of thumb I've used for damage reduction in the past is one point of damage reduction per 3 points spent. So on the surface, that looks bad for only taking two titles, unless you can get them to shoot at BOTH of your ships with the title on the front hull zone. What gets interesting is if you can take 3-4 of these titles, because they allow you to chain a lot of damage reduction to one ship, and in quantities that might do an awful lot to keeping that ship alive. The break-even point seems to be around 3 turns, but with 3-4 titles, you're also likely to keep triggering the ability after the first ship with the upgrade has blown up. And I think it can combine very well with the engineering command, Motti, STM, and other upgrades that extend the number of rounds a ship stays on the board. Despite the fact that 4 of these at 20 points look crazy, there is probably some list out there that can put 7+ damage reduction out of them, making them start looking seriously point efficient.

10 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Good point. But I think the MC one is slightly more malleable. And it combos with plenty of other upgrades.

Eng Team + token + dial = 5 + 3 = 8 +2 more for MC exodus = 10 engineering points a turn. Whooo. 5 shields and that's focused on whatever is actually dying.

for jank, add projection experts.

isnt Dial + Token + eng team = 4 + 2 + 1 = 7?

+2 for MCEF and +1 for Redemption gets us 10!

I'm pretty profoundly underwhelmed by it.

It's expensive, limits your list options significantly and only works to its full effectiveness if your opponent is splitting his fire across your entire fleet while simultaneously engaging your strongest arcs.

And as a bonus, if you want to really spam it you'll need to buy multiple Chimaera expansions (probably?)

A local player has big plans for it and maybe it'll be better than it looks on paper but I can't help but feel it was a wasted opportunity.

I think that it will shine in CC. A triple ISD list or the like becomes really tanky. Add in Motti and you're looking at 14 hull + shields. Every point counts. If you're focusing one ISD, they get the chance to potentially use 2 titles, which will reduce the damage by 2-3 depending on brace usage.

Along with that, over the course of the match you'll likely only pull down one of these beasts. It's 60 points max to repair, which is really cheap in the scheme of things. You should have plenty of extra for upgrades.

9 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

isnt Dial + Token + eng team = 4 + 2 + 1 = 7?

+2 for MCEF and +1 for Redemption gets us 10!

Nope! Armada math for you!

Eng Team raises eng value by 1 = 5.

Token gives you the larger half of your eng value = 5/2 = 3.

Weird right?

10 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Nope! Armada math for you!

Eng Team raises eng value by 1 = 5.

Token gives you the larger half of your eng value = 5/2 = 3.

Weird right?

It doesn't increase your engineering value, actually. Engineering team just adds one point to the total number of engineering points you get when you resolve a command; and token+dial is still just one command

8 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Nope! Armada math for you!

Eng Team raises eng value by 1 = 5.

Token gives you the larger half of your eng value = 5/2 = 3.

Weird right?

Fairly certain Engineering Teams gains you an additional engineering point, not increase your Engineering Value (printed on ship card).

I’m not sold on it, but a couple things;

I dont understand how its only good if your opponent splits fire? In order to gain its effect, you exhaust a copy of the card on another friendly ship. Lets say you have an isd and 2 glads with the title, and your opponent fires two salvos into your isds front arc. First salvo, you exhaust card on glad a, second, exhaust card on glad b, for a total of two reduced damage for the round. What am I missing here?

Second, I think it will combine well with Shields to Max, although well enough to be competitive is an open question.

6 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I’m not sold on it, but a couple things;

I dont understand how its only good if your opponent splits fire? In order to gain its effect, you exhaust a copy of the card on another friendly ship. Lets say you have an isd and 2 glads with the title, and your opponent fires two salvos into your isds front arc. First salvo, you exhaust card on glad a, second, exhaust card on glad b, for a total of two reduced damage for the round. What am I missing here?

Second, I think it will combine well with Shields to Max, although well enough to be competitive is an open question.

That's not splitting fire.

7 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

Fairly certain Engineering Teams gains you an additional engineering point, not increase your Engineering Value (printed on ship card).

oop, you might be right.

9 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I’m not sold on it, but a couple things;

I dont understand how its only good if your opponent splits fire? In order to gain its effect, you exhaust a copy of the card on another friendly ship. Lets say you have an isd and 2 glads with the title, and your opponent fires two salvos into your isds front arc. First salvo, you exhaust card on glad a, second, exhaust card on glad b, for a total of two reduced damage for the round. What am I missing here?

Second, I think it will combine well with Shields to Max, although well enough to be competitive is an open question.

Most people are talking about only two imperial star destroyers at this point, since gladiators might as well have demolisher glued to them and a lot of people are still wary of running VSDs. That being said, 3 has generally proven to be the magic number for Hammerheads, and I suspect the same will prove true for the new task force style titles as well. Triple ISD is probably a bad idea in 400 points, but 3 victories (Or two or them and an ISD) might make good use of it if you can get around the Victories' weaknesses (And at least some people se3m to be doing so post wave VI).

36 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

The rule of thumb I've used for damage reduction in the past is one point of damage reduction per 3 points spent.

Keep in mind that reactive damage prevention is more valuable than damage recovery. Damage prevention keeps potentially crippling crits off the hull where damage recovery may or may not remedy that crit or the effects thereof.

Prevention also keeps ships on the board that recovery would lose, in the scenario:

damage taken > ship survivability

and

(damage taken - damage prevented/recovered) < survivability

And that's not only applicable to flimsy corvettes. I have had numerous games in which my shrimps had to burn down an Interdictor or MC80 tank during the delay between one tank activation and the next to keep it from getting that huge burst of repair, where prevention keeps the target on the table but recovery does not.

This being not only prevention but distributed reactive prevention makes it very valuable in those kinds of scenarios. It gives the ISD a unique option for joining the ranks of those super-tank builds like the MC80 and Interdictor fortresses.

11 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

That's not splitting fire.

No its not. Thats my point.

8 minutes ago, Squark said:

Most people are talking about only two imperial star destroyers at this point, since gladiators might as well have demolisher glued to them and a lot of people are still wary of running VSDs. That being said, 3 has generally proven to be the magic number for Hammerheads, and I suspect the same will prove true for the new task force style titles as well. Triple ISD is probably a bad idea in 400 points, but 3 victories (Or two or them and an ISD) might make good use of it if you can get around the Victories' weaknesses (And at least some people se3m to be doing so post wave VI).

I see. I looked at this as something that required 3 instances to be worth running anyway.

17 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I dont understand how its only good if your opponent splits fire? In order to gain its effect, you exhaust a copy of the card on another friendly ship. Lets say you have an isd and 2 glads with the title, and your opponent fires two salvos into your isds front arc. First salvo, you exhaust card on glad a, second, exhaust card on glad b, for a total of two reduced damage for the round. What am I missing here?

Second, I think it will combine well with Shields to Max, although well enough to be competitive is an open question.

I hadn't really considered gladiators (because Demolisher) but this suddenly gives me an odd ball idea. ISD with a GladDoctor or two.

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer - Ordnance Experts - Projection Experts - External Racks - Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (74)

Having one or two of these protecting a fully kitted ISD's flanks, absorbing damage with 7th fleet and throwing it shields could be interesting. Maybe even put Grint or Wulff on there.

26 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Keep in mind that reactive damage prevention is more valuable than damage recovery. Damage prevention keeps potentially crippling crits off the hull where damage recovery may or may not remedy that crit or the effects thereof.

Prevention also keeps ships on the board that recovery would lose, in the scenario:

damage taken > ship survivability

and

(damage taken - damage prevented/recovered) < survivability

And that's not only applicable to flimsy corvettes. I have had numerous games in which my shrimps had to burn down an Interdictor or MC80 tank during the delay between one tank activation and the next to keep it from getting that huge burst of repair, where prevention keeps the target on the table but recovery does not.

This being not only prevention but distributed reactive prevention makes it very valuable in those kinds of scenarios. It gives the ISD a unique option for joining the ranks of those super-tank builds like the MC80 and Interdictor fortresses.

Theoretically with Thrawn you could do an ISD and 2 VSDs just navving and con firing all day. Ugh, frightening. Why won't they DIE?

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Why are we considering using Engineering Teams?

3 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Why are we considering using Engineering Teams?

VSDs are what this title is made for, in my estimation.

ISDs are too big to make use of this title except on the approach (too easy to shoot into the side). Paired GSDs could use this, if you want to save points and want to explore something that isnt' Demolisher (Twin GSDs with D-Racks, Ordnance Experts). But I think a VSD wall on close-ranks approach could use this as it is closing to shed away some damage while it is closing.

VSDs don't have a super-desired title to compete with the 7th fleet ones, so it's not like you're missing much by taking 7th fleet (Warlord's it really).

Just now, Norsehound said:

VSDs are what this title is made for, in my estimation.

ISDs are too big to make use of this title except on the approach (too easy to shoot into the side). Paired GSDs could use this, if you want to save points and want to explore something that isnt' Demolisher (Twin GSDs with D-Racks, Ordnance Experts). But I think a VSD wall on close-ranks approach could use this as it is closing to shed away some damage while it is closing.

VSDs don't have a super-desired title to compete with the 7th fleet ones, so it's not like you're missing much by taking 7th fleet (Warlord's it really).

The only issue I have with using GSDs is that they don't have the best front arcs either. Though I suppose you can just strip your front shields via redirects if you want. (also flash backing to the Wave 1 article preview for those Star Destroyers. Ah Memories)

I'm inclined to agree. However, the GSD is another star destroyer and being cheaper than the VSD, it means you can take more of them and so, more use out of the 7th fleet title while you're on the approach. Between the evade token and the 7th fleet title you could at least cancel damage at long range before the charge.

Also, an arc is an arc to shoot at. If your opponent gets around it by attacking the side, you can just pull from the front with a redirect. *shrug*

Not optimal for the GSD just means it's that much better for the VSD.

4 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

Also, an arc is an arc to shoot at. If your opponent gets around it by attacking the side, you can just pull from the front with a redirect. *shrug*

Not optimal for the GSD just means it's that much better for the VSD.

Yea I mentioned the whole redirect stuff. Maybe pair with a Cymoon and STM to make them slightly more durable or IF for more consistent damage with reds out the front. Or bring GSD 2s for the 2 blue AS.