10 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:Don't quote that garbage to me
Come on, even Star Wars movies you don't like can be farmed for memes (I actually like TLJ, but I don't like most of the prequels while breathing prequel memes). I can't wait to be snarky with the "Amazing, everything you just said was wrong" thing.
43 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:Don't quote that garbage to me
I picture Snoke interrupting him with that exact response.
Honestly, I like the bullseye arc but I don't get why they did it the way they did. If it was defined by a means that didn't need specifically marked cardboard inserts (make it the width of a movement tool 'straight' for example) it would have been far, far easier to retroactively add it to ships where it would play to or improve the playstyle.
Just like Talon Roll/Segnors' loop (which was put in the core rules as a standard 'thing' and the game is better for it), if you could fire a bundle of photocopied stuff back to the original core set designers, bullseye arc would definitely have been a thing to suggest to them. Maybe not making it 'ignore defensive tokens' by default, but just having a 'centreline' arc defined that you could attach rules to later would open up a lot of design space.
7 hours ago, markcsoul said:Sad thing is many feel even with that title the ship is still lacking. Just not bottom of the barrel anymore.
The title would get more use if there were more worthwhile 0-1 point mods so you're not adding to your ship cost.
There are. The ability to carry
at a net cost of 0 points, plus a torpedo with a 1 point discount, is one heck of a package deal.
just off the top of my head. Integrated Astromech is an awesome card but occupying the modifications slot is painful in a lot of cases.
Myself and a few others once had a conversation about fixing Xwing and it kinda went like this:
Knowing all that you know now, you are sent back in time and confronted with the design team of X wing at FFG. The starter set is in the design phase and you have convinced them that, for the love of the game, certain things need to be addressed BEFORE wave 14 and they believe you.
Taking into consideration the majority of the "fixes" people have proclaimed over the years, the starter set would be:
1 T65B X wing
2 TIE/ln Starfighters
Major changes:
X wing pilot card would specifically identify this ship as a "T65B Xwing Starfighter" as opposed to just an Xwing.
TIE Pilot card would specifically identify this ship as a "TIE/ln Starfighter" as opposed to just a TIE Fighter.
Rookie X wing would cost 19 points
Red Squadron would be 21
Biggs would be "At the beginning of the combat phase, you may spend a focus to . . (normal ability). This keeps him decent but has counter play, i.e if he doesn't have focus, he cannot use his ability so stress/bumps/token stealing, etc all work against him.
Luke's ability would be "When defending, you may change any focus results to evade results."
Academy Pilots would be 10 points
Obsidian Pilots would be 13 points but would double the effect of "Howlrunner" if in the same fleet (i.e Range 1 - 2, may re-roll up to two dice)
Night Beast and Dark Curse would both have access to the EPT upgrades.
All torps and missiles would not require the spending of the target lock, just that you have one on the defender.
"Integrated Astromech" would be a rule for all astromechs as standard, not as a card.
R2-F2 would be lightweight frame and remain at 2 points
Deadeye would be small ship only from the start.
Marksmenship would be 1 point.
The first wave, the Y wing and TIE/Advanced
Naturally, Gold and Gray would stay the same. Dutch and Horton would get access to the EPT upgrades and due to the Integrated Astromech being standard for all astromechs, get a slight increase in health.
R5-D8 would be simply an action to remove a facedown damage card, not random.
The Advanced would be made cheaper:
Tempest would be 19
Storm would be 21
Maarek would be 26
Vader would still be 29
The pack would include the TIE/Advanced x1 title card which has the same wording as Advanced Targeting computer.
Clusters and Concussion would retain their abilities but again, you don't need to spend the lock to use them, just have one.
Expert Handling would be 1 point and not hand out a stress.
Now the issue we have here, whilst all the above is very much welcome and likely useful in today's meta, how would this impact the game back then?
10 TIE swarm would be a legit beast.
5 T65b swarm would also be a thing and would likely still be relevant now. Maybe.
Torps would be very good early on and a worth while investment.
Luke would be dominating and almost impossible to kill unless rolling blanks or actually throwing 20 dice at him.
Vader would be the best counter to Luke, being range one and able to put out three dice plus a crit, means he will chew through Luke eventually. EVENTUALLY.
Four Storm Squardons with Concussion Missiles would be insanely accurate for the time and likely the best counter for five Rookies, especially since after their missiles, they default to their ATC which still provides the much needed punch.
Now with all the above, would you still have bought into the game?
7 hours ago, DagobahDave said:Well in X-Wing 2.0 or whatever, we'd have ordnance that actually delivers damage reliably, like how we can count on Harpoons. So assume that we're talking about an X-Wing game where ordnance is good and worth the points you pay for it.
It's a pretty common feature in dogfighting games (and maybe in real fighter planes, I dunno) that you have to track your target long enough to get a missile lock. The reward for lining up that shot is a high-power once-per-battle attack. I think the bullseye arc represents this extra-effort-for-extra-reward nicely, and also influences aggressive flying to try to line up or avoid that perfect shot -- which makes for deeper tactical considerations for both players.
Well, beside harpoons, cruise missiles and prockets are both pretty reliable, and I think this will only get worse/better.
IRL, there are 2 types of rockets: ones that the pilot guides (LOS tracking, wire-guided) and fire-and-forget (like the one that chased Poe over Jakku). They could easily be modeled differently in the game; Bullseye Rockets would be more like the former type.
What XWM needs now is ordnance countermeasures: deflective plating for bombs (universally) and chaff for rockets. It would be the natural progression in an arms race, and a good listbuilding consideration for the metagame.
18 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:DEAR GOD NO. What an awful idea.
If anything, the X-Wing (and the TIE Interceptor) should get access to the Bullseye firing arc.
I know that's the "cool" response around these forums. But do me a favor and actually proxy this for >1 game against something like Dash-Miranda before giving me the standard #2post knee-jerk "no" response.
Also, I do like your suggestion of the bullseye firing arc, even if you don't like mine. That could be interesting with FAA x-wings too.
16 minutes ago, Gibbilo said:I know that's the "cool" response around these forums. But do me a favor and actually proxy this for >1 game against something like Dash-Miranda before giving me the standard #2post knee-jerk "no" response.
Also, I do like your suggestion of the bullseye firing arc, even if you don't like mine. That could be interesting with FAA x-wings too.
Well, since your idea is this:
18 hours ago, Gibbilo said:Change "Harpoon Missiles" to
"Harpoon Torpedoes, X-wing only", keep everything else the same.
r... if you still don't think that's enough...change point cost of Harpoon Torpedo, X-wing only, from 4 points to 3 points! Which would allow for something like THIS:
Rookie pilot (x4)
Harpoon Torpedo (3points), Flight assist astromech, integrated astromech
Red Squadron Veteran (x3)
Harpoon Torpedo (3 points), Crackshot (or Deadeye), AO, FAA, integrated astromech,
and there's this:
18 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:[(Take Favorite Chassis) + (Add Super Weapon) = (Fixed)] is usually going to work out.
I'm just going to reiterate the above.
Also, a 1-chassis-only weapon makes no thematic sense, and x-wings are known for proton torpedoes in the lore.
Edited by Darth MeanieThe super-Harpoons are silly, but I like an X-Wing fix including Torpedoes, for thematic reasons. Bullseye would be a strong mechanical fix, however.
[Untitled X-Wing Title], 0 points. When attacking with a Torpedo weapon, you may change one of your Blank results to a Focus. Reduce the cost of your Torpedo upgrades by 1, or by 2 if you do not have a Tech upgrade on your bar.
So it works best with Proton Torpedoes, but helps any other torp if you can increase your action economy. It's usable but weaker on a T-70, and pretty good on Poe, if you can stand giving up Black One. X-Wings will still have issues getting low-PS target locks, however. Maybe we'll see a reasonable short range Torpedo at some point in the future, though.
Most importantly, include a few copies of Flight Assist Astromech and Integrated Astromech in whatever expansion this would come in.
X-wing aces are quite good.... and don't really need a fix beyond whats available.
They are harder to fly then say the falcon or Miranda but they are **** good.
Wes, Wedge, luke are all insanely good pilots that can hold their own just fine.
On 1/11/2018 at 9:17 AM, Darth Meanie said:Well, since your idea is this:
and there's this:
I'm just going to reiterate the above.
Also, a 1-chassis-only weapon makes no thematic sense, and x-wings are known for proton torpedoes in the lore.
To a few of your points:
The only reason the thread above exists is because people are able to able to run poons on ships that *aren't* bad at baseline (Nym, QD, Talonbane,) etc. Most people are not complaining about 4x Vaksai Poons (the closest equivalent to rookie pilot).
Which leads me to the next point, this isn't "take your favorite chassis and add super weapon." Maybe if 4xVaksai poons was leading the meta right now, that argument *might* have sway here but it doesn't. Even in that thread above there is healthy debate about whether poons are even a "super weapon" vs. a really good weapon.
And lastly, related to thematic sense on the chassis only weapon. I doubt I'll be able to convince you that it might actually make sense as this seems like a matter of personal preference.... I'm only going to say, we have chassis specific titles and also chassis specific modifications, so to me chassis specific weapons doesn't seem like a problem either.
Edited by GibbiloI kinda wish Flight Assist Astromech had been a title. X-wings would be worth their points then.
4 hours ago, Estarriol said:I kinda wish Flight Assist Astromech had been a title. X-wings would be worth their points then.
I was thinking that myself; “Flight Assist System” would’ve been a good title.