5 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:I think it might be easier to win with R2-D2, but that's not to say that winning with BB-8 is impossible (or that much harder).
It's not impossible. You can win with anything, really. I'm just speaking in terms of doing consistently well in "regionals or higher" tier event.
BB-8 Poe versus R2-D2 Poe comes down to this, IMO: BB-8 Poe can be punished past recovery (not necessarily to immediate destruction, just where destruction becomes vastly easier) by a single -- literally one -- mistake, while R2-D2 Poe usually cannot be.
R2-D2 Poe is more forgiving. It's that simple.
(I personally find BB-8 Poe more fun than R2-D2 Poe, and I similarly find BB-8 Norra more fun than R2-D2 Norra, but if my primary goal in a serious tournament were a high finish, I'd take R2-D2 versions. No question.)
4 hours ago, gennataos said:That doesn't remotely answer the question of whether top players have tested out BB-8 post-Wave 12/13. I'm not even sure which side you're arguing. It won a regional! (Good!) It was a 36-person regional. (bad!...?)
What? It totally does. It says right there the top performing squads that have actually done well in tournaments since Wave 12 dropped which include BB-8. And the answer is yes, BB-8 has been put on the table in tournament play since Wave 12 dropped and has seen some success.
How is there a side to your question? It's a yes or no question, unless your actual question is which droid is better?
2 hours ago, Chumbalaya said:BB-8 Poe is cute and fun, but regen Poe is the one you take if you're trying to win.
It is known.
It has been known. Is it still known? Is any of your crew trying it or just rolling with what's historically been working? I'd get that, why switch if it's still working.
28 minutes ago, Tvboy said:What? It totally does. It says right there the top performing squads that have actually done well in tournaments since Wave 12 dropped which include BB-8. And the answer is yes, BB-8 has been put on the table in tournament play since Wave 12 dropped and has seen some success.
How is there a side to your question? It's a yes or no question, unless your actual question is which droid is better?
It won one 36-person regional and made the cut in one bigger one. Of note, if you click "More Squadrons", my latest store kit run is #3 on the list. I don't think you can go by this small data sample. Unless you want to nominate me for the third best BB-8 Poe player in the world...in which case, I'm on board!
11 minutes ago, gennataos said:It has been known. Is it still known? Is any of your crew trying it or just rolling with what's historically been working?
This
11 hours ago, Thormind said:wow, useful comment
Actually, it got the OP to give a little more context, so I'm gonna go with the idea it was.
I'll grant it was high sodium, and not for those with weak hearts.
Edited by Darth MeanieOn 11/01/2018 at 7:03 AM, BlodVargarna said:If he’s moving before Vader, Kylo, or Quckdraw all that maneuverability is not especially useful.
Until the PS War goes away, my PS 9 Poe has VI stapled to him.
I hate having to use VI to fight the PS war too, I wish FFG would have a PS cap as has been suggested in a thousand threads. PTL doesnt matter if you cant shoot your opponent. VI Poe can boost away, not giving you a shot ready to try another engagement angle. With Black One there isnt any reason to TL VI Poe, he will boost to drop it as most likely he will have Advanced Optics and have a Focus anyway.
Stapling VI goes with Vader as well, hate that I have to do it, but sometimes you just have to.
On 1/10/2018 at 4:30 PM, Kieransi said:
The only thing I saw in this diagram:
1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:Actually, it got the OP to give a little more context, so I'm gonna go with the idea it was.
I'll grant it was high sodium, and not for those with weak hearts.
At least it wasn’t ‘git gud’.
1 minute ago, GrimmyV said:The only thing I saw in this diagram:
Yeah, bunnies that barrel roll. . .not good.
Can you say enchephalocytozoon with extreme torticollus?
On 10.1.2018 at 8:52 PM, Kieransi said:I personally think BB-8/PTL is the only Poe. Here's everywhere he can go with just a 1-bank-left dialed in:
Now, whether or not you count me as a "top player" is a different question.
I play Poe+PTL+BB-8 since the very beginning. With AO out, I just consider dropping PTL for something else but it's not worth it. Even against higher PS, the sheer unpredictability of the build is extremely powerful (if played well).
Part of the problem with why VI is so good is that it's broadly useful AND cheap. If you had to pay PTL/Predator prices for VI, you'd see a much more even PS curve.
Top players take regen when they can cause tournaments are a points game (hence wookiee nation as well). See Miranda. See Corran aka Nathan Eide. See top Poe lists.
BB8/BlackOne Poe is really good and CAN do great in top events (top 8 in Poland regionals, and won in a small Netherlands regional) but having regen Poe almost guarantees you the win if you are up on points and 20 minutes is left in the game.
Guaranteed damage prevention, which is what regen is, will always be top meta. Its why reinforce is strong, its why Asajj is strong, Kanan is strong, Low is strong, Rex is strong. It's why Biggs was strong. Erasing a TL doesnt guarantee Dash isnt gonna throw 4 paint anyways, or thweek without his FCS lock isnt gonna tear you apart anyways. It certainly gives you a chance by lowering their percentages, but you leave it in the dice gods hands. It only guarantees a non-deadeye, lower PS ship wont fire a missile. Regen is guaranteed, and players want that consistency. Keyword: consistency
Im sure the "top" players have tried it, just like everybody else, and as results have shown, they prefer R2D2. Three just in the top 8 top 16 at arizona regionals.
3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Part of the problem with why VI is so good is that it's broadly useful AND cheap. If you had to pay PTL/Predator prices for VI, you'd see a much more even PS curve.
Getting off topic: but VI is a lame EPT. The game would be much better off and probably more fun if this EPT never hit the table.
But, we’re stuck with it, and unfortunately I don’t see an end to it ever.
By the way, looking at the BB8 PTL analog display, the nearly exact same range of maneuvers can be accomplished with Advanced Optics and BB8 with EPT of choice (if you dial in a green bank).
21 minutes ago, wurms said:Im sure the "top" players have tried it, just like everybody else, and as results have shown, they prefer R2D2. Three just in the
top 8top 16 at arizona regionals.
I don't think they have since Wave 12/13, at least not in the US. That's okay, why fix what's not broken? I just don't think they have.
20 hours ago, theBitterFig said:For Lone Wolf vs. Predator, you have to ask what you'd want more: a consistent bonus to offense only, or an inconsistent bonus to both offense and defense. I think that's something every player needs to decide for themselves. I think I'm more on the LW side (I want to protect my 50+ point investment), but there's a reasonable case for either.
Or go with Expertise and get a very consistent bonus to offense with a variable bonus to defense by always saving focus to defend with. I say it boils down to points available, other upgrades (Rey crew), and play style.
3 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:Or go with Expertise and get a very consistent bonus to offense with a variable bonus to defense by always saving focus to defend with. I say it boils down to points available, other upgrades (Rey crew), and play style.
The thing about Expertise, to me, is that you have do decide in the activation phase whether you want to take a Focus or TL action. TL doubles-down on offense, Focus is only usable defensively. With Predator or Lone Wolf, you will usually just take a Focus action, and you can make the choice for offense or defense as the turn unfolds. Personally, I value that flexibility on a lot of ships.
Points available and other upgrades certainly are huge, though.
17 hours ago, gennataos said:It has been known. Is it still known? Is any of your crew trying it or just rolling with what's historically been working? I'd get that, why switch if it's still working.
It won one 36-person regional and made the cut in one bigger one. Of note, if you click "More Squadrons", my latest store kit run is #3 on the list. I don't think you can go by this small data sample. Unless you want to nominate me for the third best BB-8 Poe player in the world...in which case, I'm on board!
In this case the absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence because we know that all the major tournaments get entered into List Juggler. I'm sure there is similar data you can look at for the Vassal League. Why would good players use BB-8 in casual play but not in tournaments if they thought he was the right answer? There is no secret underground X-Wing cagefighting dojo where people are using secretly good lists without bringing them to tournaments.
Maybe I'm confused by your question, "are any experienced players putting BB-8 on the table right now?" That's a yes or no question. The answer is yes. 2 people. But maybe your actual question is more like "will the best X players that fly BB-8 Poe (but obviously don't bring him to tournaments) post here about their experiences"?
You could find out who the 2 players are that did better than you did with BB-8 and contact them and find out what they think about BB-8. Do they not qualify as "experienced players that put BB-8 on the table"? Does their existence not answer your question with a "yes"? Putting out an open call on the forums is only going to get you what you are seeing right now, a forum debate between anons claiming expertise and randos claiming insight about which droid is better.
Just trying to help align your goal with your methodology, felt like there was a bit of a mismatch there.
2 hours ago, Tvboy said:Putting out an open call on the forums is only going to get you what you are seeing right now, a forum debate between anons claiming expertise and randos claiming insight about which droid is better.
I'm painfully aware that posting in the forums is probably a waste of time. If you think you've contributed to the conversation in some meaningful way, you're mistaken.
Rasta just won a large ~130players UK regional with IntensityBB8 Poe + Dash.
1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:Rasta just won a large ~130players UK regional with IntensityBB8 Poe + Dash.
What are the odds? Today Poetensity (with BB8 and CR)/Dash won the Barcelona regional (123 players) as well.
Edited by darthlurker11 minutes ago, darthlurker said:What are the odds? Today Poetensity (with BB8 and CR)/Dash won the Barcelona regional (123 players) as well.
Right, I forgot about Barcelona. Poor @gennataos - he wasn't taken as seriously as he should have been in this thread! Looks like BB8 Poe is pretty good, too.
But at least Rasta needed the points for EU + bid as far as I see his build. Otherwise I don't understand why he would not prefer R2D2 tbh. With the moves he used in the final he would have regenerated at least 2 shield, and he boosted anyway which would have gotten him intensity, too. I'm not sure about positional advantage, but I don't think BB8 was really necessary. Then again, it adds so many options that the ships is harder to predict, and we can't say how much that influenced the two players.
9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Right, I forgot about Barcelona. Poor @gennataos - he wasn't taken as seriously as he should have been in this thread! Looks like BB8 Poe is pretty good, too.
But at least Rasta needed the points for EU + bid as far as I see his build. Otherwise I don't understand why he would not prefer R2D2 tbh. With the moves he used in the final he would have regenerated at least 2 shield, and he boosted anyway which would have gotten him intensity, too. I'm not sure about positional advantage, but I don't think BB8 was really necessary. Then again, it adds so many options that the ships is harder to predict, and we can't say how much that influenced the two players.
Get them on the Mynock podcast and ask them!!!
19 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Right, I forgot about Barcelona. Poor @gennataos - he wasn't taken as seriously as he should have been in this thread! Looks like BB8 Poe is pretty good, too.
But at least Rasta needed the points for EU + bid as far as I see his build. Otherwise I don't understand why he would not prefer R2D2 tbh. With the moves he used in the final he would have regenerated at least 2 shield, and he boosted anyway which would have gotten him intensity, too. I'm not sure about positional advantage, but I don't think BB8 was really necessary. Then again, it adds so many options that the ships is harder to predict, and we can't say how much that influenced the two players.
I think the bolded observations answer your question pretty well. Bid + unpredictability + a little extra force protection is huge.
4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:Rasta just won a large ~130players UK regional with IntensityBB8 Poe + Dash.
3 hours ago, darthlurker said:What are the odds? Today Poetensity (with BB8 and CR)/Dash won the Barcelona regional (123 players) as well.
