49 minutes ago, QuasarJones said:

I'm new to the game, and planning on going to a small local casual tournament. Considering running a Dash/Poe list with BB-8 to shed as many TLs as possible early on at PS11. Is that a bad move with Dash as other ship?

If you're running lone wolf Dash then it's somewhat anti-synergistic as you want Poe to be near Dash to help him ditch the locks but you want Dash far from Poe to get the defensive rerolls that greatly extend his life. PTL/Kanan Dash on the other hand would be fine but is hard to fit in a list with a PS11 decked out Poe. You can in theory pre-move BR/boost at R1 then execute your move out to R3 but other than as a, predictable after being seen once, setup move it's not likely to happen.

BB-8 Poe with LW Dash isn't bad, they're both good ships, but dropping 2 target locks shouldn't be your primary reason for choosing BB-8 over R2-D2 since in practice you'll often not reap that benefit

1 hour ago, BlodVargarna said:

I’d wager that Poe even with regen won’t win that matchup. But both could run forever.

In my Poe +1 lists I usually find he's not doing the work that the other ship is. But if he can dance around at range 3, he’s going to survive and put some damage here and there. If he’s drawing fire at this ideal engagement even better.

BB-8 Poe is an awesome point bunker for those games that go to MOV. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing for the game.

2 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

No. It’s probably a good move. What’s your Dash build?

Was considering Predator, Rey, HLC, Title, Countermeasures and Burnout Slam or Rigged Cargo. Figured (as someone else said) that lone wolf wouldn't synergize well with Poe trying to remove target locks.

2 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

3 hours ago, QuasarJones said:

I'm new to the game,

You just saw this:

3 hours ago, Kieransi said:

You need PTL to boost before you move (which is what half of those do). Here's the flowchart for PTL/BB-8 Poe. Notice that without the second action you lost half the options. Basically, he does a green move after he pushes the limit, so he clears the stress (and still gets his actual action).

and you're still here??

You're braver than I thought.

(P.S. We'll be posting a unique flow chart for all 300 pilots' in-game actions. Quiz Friday.)

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

You just saw this:

and you're still here??

You're braver than I thought.

(P.S. We'll be posting a unique flow chart for all 300 pilots' in-game actions. Quiz Friday.)

Haha, you're right, maybe I should stick with R2-D2. I'm happy enough when I remember that autothrusters should trigger... my brain would probably explode trying to consider eveth possible movement option.

1 hour ago, QuasarJones said:

Was considering Predator, Rey, HLC, Title, Countermeasures and Burnout Slam or Rigged Cargo. Figured (as someone else said) that lone wolf wouldn't synergize well with Poe trying to remove target locks.

That’s a decent build for Dash. The thing with. Lone Wolf is that if it’s not working every round, it’s still a decent upgrade.

Also if your Dash has Countermeasures, he can protect himself from a target lock on a crucial round.

I’d practice with both Dash and Poe builds and see what you like.

11 hours ago, The Penguin UK said:

My problem with BB-8 Poe is that 2 green dice just isn't enough. With all the movement options in the world, if you wind up at range 1 or 2 of a turret ship, or near Dash or just can't get out of the way, then you take the damage. Chasing down a Han or a Dash with BB-8 is difficult. With R2, it's significantly easier.

I think that's a big part of it. It's the same reason I love my 5 strikers but I never really want to try "Duchess".

"Duchess" with Veteran Instincts is PS10 with a sort-of-free boost for the price of a pretty much base-level Push The Limit TIE interceptor. Add in her amazingly flexible red dial and she can dance as well as, or even better than, Soontir Fel.

So why isn't she any good? Because no amount of repositioning means jack if you have to assume that...let's say every other game?....a significant chunk of your opponent's squad will have either a 180' or 360' arc of fire, meaning there is virtually nowhere you can place yourself to get a shot where your opponent will not get a shot back, meaning arc-dodging is fine, but only really for the autothrusters crowd, where 'arc dodging' a turret is still a meaningful thing.

Bb8 poe is superior in this era of missile spike damage in my humble opinion. It’s no use those tGunboats having reload if they can’t fire their harpoons

I always find that I can Regen once, maybe twice, but if I’d had the evade that intensity supplies it would’ve worked just as well with the intrinsic action denial that black one gives you.

However

Despite the fact that he is everywhere, I’m coming to the conclusion that he isn’t that good just now.

3 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Despite the fact that he is everywhere, I’m coming to the conclusion that he isn’t that good just now.

Oh, now that's a sentiment with which I cannot agree. Advanced Optics is probably the best thing to come out of the entire wave and Poe has the most to benefit from it. I think he was represented in at least one top cut squad from each regional last weekend and was on two squads which won. On metawing, he's been catapulted to the #4 spot behind Miranda, Lowhhrick and Quickdraw. He's really good right now.

18 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Why don't you just fly it and find out for yourself?

wow, useful comment

17 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

I’ll be putting my droid where my mouth is next week at Regionals, so I’ll report back what I learned in a very competitive tournament.

Cudos to you! I'll be doing the same thing at the Systems Open in Copenhagen in February.

I really think that both archetypes have merit, but as Biophysical noted, they have very different roles and win conditions. They also require different teammates. I'll be flying mine besides PS 11 Wedge and Fenn.

2 minutes ago, JaceDK said:

Cudos to you! I'll be doing the same thing at the Systems Open in Copenhagen in February.

I really think that both archetypes have merit, but as Biophysical noted, they have very different roles and win conditions. They also require different teammates. I'll be flying mine besides PS 11 Wedge and Fenn.

Fair warning...I flew Poe/Wedge/Fenn for a while and it is good, but lacked some staying power against heavy ordnance. Part of that was probably unimaginative flying on my part, but it's something to consider.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

wow, useful comment

It's about as useful as a comment could be actually. There's no way for you to find out unless you put in the work and do it.

18 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

It's about as useful as a comment could be actually. There's no way for you to find out unless you put in the work and do it.

Actually, no...in the context of the question I asked, it wasn't useful. I've done the work, I wanted to know if any top players had done the work and, if so, what their conclusions were.

I'm relatively confident I won't get the answers I'm seeking. That's okay.

2 hours ago, gennataos said:

Fair warning...I flew Poe/Wedge/Fenn for a while and it is good, but lacked some staying power against heavy ordnance. Part of that was probably unimaginative flying on my part, but it's something to consider.

I most likely have the same feeling about it which prompted you to start this topic. It really want it to be good, despite so many experienced players telling me to run regen point fortresses instead.

My gut tells me it’s a great list for standard dogfights, but hard to win with in a timed tournament where you’re out by your second loss. I run HotCop and FAA on Fenn, which really helps to nerf the opponents offense, but any of those ships just goes poof at the first mistake.

2 hours ago, JaceDK said:

Cudos to you! I'll be doing the same thing at the Systems Open in Copenhagen in February.

I really think that both archetypes have merit, but as Biophysical noted, they have very different roles and win conditions. They also require different teammates. I'll be flying mine besides PS 11 Wedge and Fenn.

I forgot to caveat my statement with "I am NOT a top tier player."

Just now, BlodVargarna said:

I forgot to caveat my statement with "I am NOT a top tier player."

Well, neither am I ?

This is not a difficult question to answer anymore:

http://meta-wing.com/upgrades/144?

1 hour ago, Tvboy said:

This is not a difficult question to answer anymore:

http://meta-wing.com/upgrades/144?

That doesn't remotely answer the question of whether top players have tested out BB-8 post-Wave 12/13. I'm not even sure which side you're arguing. It won a regional! (Good!) It was a 36-person regional. (bad!...?)

Meta wing is a tricky thing to trust. All it really shows is what people are more likely to fly, and when something's hard to fly, the data gets skewed because so many newer players fly it and get curbstomped, even if that thing is truly devastating in the hands of a player who knows how to use it.

On the flipside, the truly good players could win with just about anything. If Paul Heaver took Lieutenant Lorrir to worlds, I wouldn't be surprised if he placed somewhere in the top 8. And then all the people on the forums would be yelling "nerf Lorrir" and all the newbies at the FLGS would be complaining that Imperial Aces is out of print and they can't buy Lorrir for less than $20 on eBay.

I used ListJuggler here http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/search to search for "p=Poe AND u=BB" and only got a few high results at regionals. Top 8 in Krakow with Jess and Lowhhrick, a win in Utrecht at a smaller regional with Chewie as a partner. Not too many lower results, either.

I guess it doesn't look like there are too many top-players are flying BB-8 Poe. Doesn't mean he's not good, necessarily, but just not what they fly. I mean, Nathan Eide is still flying Corran Horn.

And Advanced Optics is pretty new.

//

That's the best I can do for "top players." For myself, a lot is probably practice, but I think BB-8 Poe seems like he's not as strong at arc dodging as someone like Soontir was, or Kylo is. The map of where PTL/BB-8 Poe can go is kinda impressive. The map for PTL/Advanced Sensors Kylo is far more impressive, and Kylo can pull reds more easily. And without Regen, they're both 6 HP ships with Autothrusters. Kylo has 3 Dice, Poe has his pilot ability and Black One. Granted, you can't fly Kylo with Dash, but Kylo and BB-8 Poe seem pretty similar.

R2-D2 Poe, however, does something utterly unlike a Kylo. Perhaps the reason fewer folks seem to be flying BB-8 at the top levels is not because he's weaker, but because there are substitutes like Kylo, but there's no real substitute for a regen Poe. Folks either don't have regen, or fly entirely differently (like Corran or Norra).

20 hours ago, QuasarJones said:

Was considering Predator, Rey, HLC, Title, Countermeasures and Burnout Slam or Rigged Cargo. Figured (as someone else said) that lone wolf wouldn't synergize well with Poe trying to remove target locks.

For Lone Wolf vs. Predator, you have to ask what you'd want more: a consistent bonus to offense only, or an inconsistent bonus to both offense and defense. I think that's something every player needs to decide for themselves. I think I'm more on the LW side (I want to protect my 50+ point investment), but there's a reasonable case for either.

BB-8 Poe is cute and fun, but regen Poe is the one you take if you're trying to win.

It is known.

39 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:

BB-8 Poe is cute and fun, but regen Poe is the one you take if you're trying to win.

It is known.

I think it might be easier to win with R2-D2, but that's not to say that winning with BB-8 is impossible (or that much harder).