I really don't care for a debate on BB-8 vs. regen. Regen has historically been the consensus better version, that's fine. I just want to know, maybe challenge(?), top players to confirm that's this is still the case now that Advanced Optics is out. I'm not asking for theory-crafting or head-simming, I'm asking about ships on a table (or in Vassal) and actually seeing if BB-8 Poe has a place in an A or S-tier list.

These are the benefits I see. You can measure the number of shields you regen in a game, but you can't measure the number of shields you never had to regen due to pulling off additional TLs, being out of arc, killing stuff faster because you're on target more, etc.

• More time on target
• More use of title
• Better ability to dodge arcs
• Less likely to be blocked
• Better range/approach control
• Cheaper

Why don't you just fly it and find out for yourself?

I personally think BB-8/PTL is the only Poe. Here's everywhere he can go with just a 1-bank-left dialed in:

Now, whether or not you count me as a "top player" is a different question.

9 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I personally think BB-8/PTL is the only Poe. Here's everywhere he can go with just a 1-bank-left dialed in:

Now, whether or not you count me as a "top player" is a different question.

If he’s moving before Vader, Kylo, or Quckdraw all that maneuverability is not especially useful.

Until the PS War goes away, my PS 9 Poe has VI stapled to him.

I blew up one at Regionals... that count for much? Would it help to say Wedge took the shot that killed Poe?

Edit: No. Just no. This post does not deserve 'likes.' It's jerkish, even for me. Poor attempt at humour.

2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Why don't you just fly it and find out for yourself?

I have and do...a lot. I do exceptionally well with Rey/Poe locally. I brought that to the Chicago regional after a ton of practice and scrubbed out. Regen wouldn't have saved me, only practice against a wider variety of lists. I could have rolled against almost any ordnance list I saw, but the match-ups didn't work out that way and I lacked the preparation to deal with some of the match-ups I did have. I then had decent to good match-ups during the Redemption event and did just fine.

I'm not a top player and I was curious if top players, instead of just assuming that what has always been the best is still the best, has tried BB-8 Poe after Advanced Optics dropped. That's pretty much all.

19 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I personally think BB-8/PTL is the only Poe. Here's everywhere he can go with just a 1-bank-left dialed in:

Now, whether or not you count me as a "top player" is a different question.

Wow, an analog display. I can almost hear the tape hiss.

3 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I blew up one at Regionals... that count for much? Would it help to say Wedge took the shot that killed Poe?

No, not really. If it's helpful for you, I've played with and against that Rebel alpha list and would gladly have faced it.

44 minutes ago, gennataos said:

• More time on target
• More use of title
• Better ability to dodge arcs
• Less likely to be blocked
• Better range/approach control
• Cheaper

Top of this list should be: More Fun to fly.

1 minute ago, BlodVargarna said:

Top of this list should be: More Fun to fly.

Now that is definitely true. More fluffy as well!

Just now, BlodVargarna said:

Top of this list should be: More Fun to fly.

I don't disagree, but fun doesn't help win tournaments (OR DOES IT?!).

As an example for context, @Rytackle talked about BB-8 vs. R2-D2 on the latest Mynock podcast. He was very dismissive of BB-8 being better, and for Poe/Dash, I don't disagree. But has he tried BB-8 elsewhere?

I'm not trying to demand people go do research for me. I'm more so curious if anyone has even tried?

I also think that people are stuck in the mindset that Rebels have to win by endurance and going to time. It's possible that those are their only win conditions, but its also possible that a good Rebel aggression squad hasnt been develooed and deployed at a major event, but is quite possible. BB8 Poe may well serve that kind of squad better.

11 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I don't disagree, but fun doesn't help win tournaments (OR DOES IT?!).

As an example for context, @Rytackle talked about BB-8 vs. R2-D2 on the latest Mynock podcast. He was very dismissive of BB-8 being better, and for Poe/Dash, I don't disagree. But has he tried BB-8 elsewhere?

I'm not trying to demand people go do research for me. I'm more so curious if anyone has even tried?

I haven’t listened to that yet, but at 2 points cheaper and with more reposition options, I don’t believe him. I’ve played both versions with Dash a lot (back when Poetensity was a thing) and maybe it’s just my play style but I always did much better with BB8.

Now that Advanced Optics is a thing, There’s no way I’d put R2-D2 in my Poe.

I’ll be putting my droid where my mouth is next week at Regionals, so I’ll report back what I learned in a very competitive tournament.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Wow, an analog display. I can almost hear the tape hiss.

It's worse than that even. Those are literally all real plastic bases on a real mat on the floor in my house.

I almost own enough X-Wings.

1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

I personally think BB-8/PTL is the only Poe. Here's everywhere he can go with just a 1-bank-left dialed in:

Can't BB-8/Advanced Optics Poe go all the same places but without the need to do another green the next turn?

Just now, TheHumanHydra said:

Can't BB-8/Advanced Optics Poe go all the same places but without the need to do another green the next turn?

No, because PtL Poe can boost off of the BB-8 BR ala some Advance Sensors Kylo shenanigans.

Just now, TheHumanHydra said:

Can't BB-8/Advanced Optics Poe go all the same places but without the need to do another green the next turn?

You need PTL to boost before you move (which is what half of those do). Here's the flowchart for PTL/BB-8 Poe. Notice that without the second action you lost half the options. Basically, he does a green move after he pushes the limit, so he clears the stress (and still gets his actual action).

I'm new to the game, and planning on going to a small local casual tournament. Considering running a Dash/Poe list with BB-8 to shed as many TLs as possible early on at PS11. Is that a bad move with Dash as other ship?

For Poe, there should be a section in there near the end that follows "Do you have a focus token?" -> No -> "Why the **** not?"

My problem with BB-8 Poe is that 2 green dice just isn't enough. With all the movement options in the world, if you wind up at range 1 or 2 of a turret ship, or near Dash or just can't get out of the way, then you take the damage. Chasing down a Han or a Dash with BB-8 is difficult. With R2, it's significantly easier.

25 minutes ago, QuasarJones said:

I'm new to the game, and planning on going to a small local casual tournament. Considering running a Dash/Poe list with BB-8 to shed as many TLs as possible early on at PS11. Is that a bad move with Dash as other ship?

No. It’s probably a good move. What’s your Dash build?

6 minutes ago, The Penguin UK said:

My problem with BB-8 Poe is that 2 green dice just isn't enough. With all the movement options in the world, if you wind up at range 1 or 2 of a turret ship, or near Dash or just can't get out of the way, then you take the damage. Chasing down a Han or a Dash with BB-8 is difficult. With R2, it's significantly easier.

I’d wager that Poe even with regen won’t win that matchup. But both could run forever.

In my Poe +1 lists I usually find he's not doing the work that the other ship is. But if he can dance around at range 3, he’s going to survive and put some damage here and there. If he’s drawing fire at this ideal engagement even better.

9 minutes ago, The Penguin UK said:

My problem with BB-8 Poe is that 2 green dice just isn't enough. With all the movement options in the world, if you wind up at range 1 or 2 of a turret ship, or near Dash or just can't get out of the way, then you take the damage. Chasing down a Han or a Dash with BB-8 is difficult. With R2, it's significantly easier.

I don't think I agree. I've played against Dash with my Rey/Poe list several times and don't find Dash scary. I played one in the Redemption event and lost a total of 1 shield for the whole game. Range/doughnut control ftw! Engine Rey/Poe isn't stuck on that mat with Dash, he's stuck on there with them!

Han would present more of a challenge. I think? I don't know, I did beat the 6-0 swiss double falcon list from the Chicago regional Day1-B with my Rey/Poe list (he's a beloved local player for me), but that took a fair bit of running with Poe towards the end.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

No, not really. If it's helpful for you, I've played with and against that Rebel alpha list and would gladly have faced it.

To be more helpful, I've seen quite a few Poe floating around, though mostly with the belief they can counter harpoons that way. Black One isn't enough, unfortunately. At least one player was flying Poe first round of the top 16 but a Nym bomb tossed got him. Really, flying proton bombs would be my fear flying an xwing at all, but I could still be twitchy.

2 hours ago, gennataos said:

I don't disagree, but fun doesn't help win tournaments (OR DOES IT?!).

As an example for context, @Rytackle talked about BB-8 vs. R2-D2 on the latest Mynock podcast. He was very dismissive of BB-8 being better, and for Poe/Dash, I don't disagree. But has he tried BB-8 elsewhere?

I'm not trying to demand people go do research for me. I'm more so curious if anyone has even tried?

That also made me raise an eyebrow, or at least the claim that ALL top players agree.

I don‘t know whether he qualifies as top player (I think he does), but Oli from 186th squadron took BB8 Poe to large events as far as I know.