Alright, so it seems like the supplement we're likely going to have to wait the longest for will be the Super Hero Setting. I don't want to wait until FFG gets it done, that's why I would like to propose a challenge for the entirety of the Genesys Thread:

This thread will be dedicated to converting Savage Worlds' Super Powers 2nd Edition to Genesys. Whenever you visit the forum, visit this thread, and either submit a superpower conversion, or critique someone elses. You can email me(Email is on my profile) And I'll send you a snippet of the Savage Super Powers Companion so you can contribute as well.

All Superpowers will be recorded here, in an open Google Docs anyone will be able to edit:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y1ed2WSxxe3y-lMf1suY4Vgc7hEDFi_RNuTMEp3SWKQ/edit?usp=sharing

Let's get this done people! If we all collaborate on it, we'll make short work of it in no time!

The philosophy regarding Super Powers in Genesys is simple: Powers in Savage Worlds are equivalent to Talents in Genesys, with Ranked Talents replacing levels, and scaling appropriately. Additionally, I would like to propose a mechanic that should help provide the basis for Superhero capabilities as opposed to normal capabilities: Attribute Scaling. Simply put, with attribute scaling, we let players invest XP into raising not just their attributes, but the weight class in which those attributes are treated. Take Strength for example. You would start out with vanilla strength capabilities, and a 3 in the strength attribute. Now, if you invest in the scaling of the attribute, you still stay at a 3 for most skill rolls, but you lift at a higher silhouette rating, and possibly gain a Sunder rating for inanimate objects of that particular size, and investing further increases this rating. The stat remains the same for balance purposes, but we apply a series of bonuses around each attribute that would have the same impact that you'd expect of a "super" equivalent of the attribute.

I'll come back in a bit with some more solid foundation work to this project.

I love the idea of this! I will contribute I think once my book gets here (Friday!), so, i look forward to reading and participating in this thread. Also, I REALLY like your Scales idea; it neatly solves a problem we see in games like GURPS and, say, Wild Talents; everything is okay for mid level, but once we get near some very incredible stuff the results get odd. I highly prefer not breaking the dice and damage system, and I think your Scale captures some of that.

As said, once I get my book, I can more logically contribute.

I Like this ranked characteristics idea quite a bit. I was thinking about something like this as a solution to more super/supernatural characteristics too but I hadn't quite pinned it down.

Your description is very good. Unfortunately I am not very familiar with savage worlds and its supplements (i've only read the deluxe core book once) so I can't help in the conversion process, but i'll gladly pitch in anytime i think i have something usefull to say.

Can't wait to see where this will lead.

As a side note, my interest is not that much in a supers supplement, but something more like a world of darkness themed setting, where players can be humans, vampires, mages and what have you, where (obviously?) an [agility 3] for a vampire should be "more" than [agility 3] of a human (there was another topic on this around, about supernatural characteristics). I believe your solution fits well with this too.

excellent!

I am very familair with SW and can help out as well.

This may be a good effort to undertake. I'm not sure there's ever going to be a Supers sourcebook. The superhero rules are a Tone, not a theme. Plus what setting would they use for a setting book? FFG doesn't have a super heroes IP at the moment. They'd either have to acquire one or make one of their own.

Excellent. This is literally how I was handling my "Savage Edge" RPG I was working on a couple years ago but never finished.

11 minutes ago, DarthGM said:

This may be a good effort to undertake. I'm not sure there's ever going to be a Supers sourcebook. The superhero rules are a Tone, not a theme. Plus what setting would they use for a setting book? FFG doesn't have a super heroes IP at the moment. They'd either have to acquire one or make one of their own.

I agree

I'm going to be "that guy" for a second. I have nothing against a fan setting book or supers or anything, for the record.

But introducing massive changes to the core mechanics to account for scaling issues in superhero settings is problematic, both from a "hey, I just bought Genesys and found this cool fan project that lets me play supers" perspective and a "crikey, we have to playtest this thing?" perspective.

Any module or genre book, ideally, would be able to pick-up and play with as little changing as possible. Adding a set of rules to the Genesys rules is fine (like what the Terrinoth book is doing, adding); changing rules to get the additional material to work is less fine.

It appears to me that a major problem with trying to build a superhero RPG is that the makers try to account for the DC/Marvel range of power levels, which is ridiculously broad. A setting where powers are more-or-less equal to each other would work better. Like My Hero Academia , The Incredibles , and/or, more traditionally, X-Men (yeah, still Marvel, sue me).

I guess I just want to throw that out for consideration.

I'll have a basic table for Attribute scaling out by this evening, meanwhile, I've come across a design snag: To Gear or not to Gear. Otherwise known as the Batman problem.

See, in Savage Worlds Super Powers there's very little emphasis on gear, in fact, the mad science/Inventor superpower is actually the ability to replicate other superpowers through a limited-use device. The Batman Utility Belt in this system is actually just an on-the-fly Inventing skill with the caveat that he can only do it with the utility belt equipped, which explains why he always has what he needs.

In the NDS system we actually have a Utility belt system, as well as an extensive, detailed,(and if I may say, downright sexy) tech and crafting system.

So, the big question is, do we Tech, or NOT Tech the Supers system.

@Swordbreaker I believe that's an issue with all Super Systems. Half the book is usually helping the GM decides the power level and scale of the world he's building. It's really just to be expected.

2 minutes ago, SwivelDiscourse said:

I'll have a basic table for Attribute scaling out by this evening

really looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Sorry folks, my Apartment's Wi-Fi decided to crash on me, and it's getting late, so I'm just posting this from my phone to let you know I'm going to have to post what I've got tomorrow sometime, so things have been delayed. In the meantime, I would like to hear your thoughts on whether we should use the Genesys Tech system for Supers, or use an adapted version of Savage World's Inventing "Replicate powers" skill. Obviously the tech version would incorporate some of the latter, but the SW version presents less complications.

@SwivelDiscourse I've already started a similar work, Superpowers as Talents, however not starting from Savage Worlds but from Marvel Heroic RPG (Cortex System).

In Marvel Heroic RPG you have powers at different level (d6, d8, d10 and d12) that can be translated into Tier 2, 3, 4 and 5 easily in Genesys.

For example, this is my version of Teleport power:

TELEPORT

The character travel from one point to another instantaneously; no check required unless something can go wrong or otherwise specified. Coordination is the skill used by Teleport; you have to make a check anytime you try to teleport on narrative range if you're in combat (this can take you out of combat).

Tier 2 - Teleport
You can teleport up to short range in combat encounter or up to line of sight but only outside combat encounters.

Tier 3 - Teleport
Combat: up to medium range. 
Narrative: across the city in one jump or to another city with multiple jumps.

Tier 3 - Switch
With a successful Coordination check you can change position with another ally character who is aware and agree with your teleportation (the ally perceive your intentions telepathically); you can also swap places with a non-allied character (for example, a hostage) but in this case it becomes an opposite check against the enemy's Vigilance (since he does not expect it). The switch action has a cost of 2 strain.

Tier 4 - Teleport
Combat: up to long range. 
Narrative: across the world in one jump.

Tier 4 - Turnabout
You can teleport up to medium range, take an action and then teleport again up to medium range. The turnabout action has a cost of 2 strain.

Tier 5 - Teleport
Combat: up to extreme range. 
Narrative: distant planets or galaxies (up to your GM).

Please tell me what do you think.

Answering your question regarding Tech, can this be achieved with a "Mad Scientist" like Talent? Instead on once per session you can use once per encounter and you can use a single item taken from equipment (grenades, smoke bombs, toolkit, tracer, etc...); what do you think?

@Lord_Lele

Why starting at Tier 2? What about Tier 1 access to superpowers?

@SwivelDiscourse

For Super-Tech, I think it needs to be done like Savage Worlds handles it.

I had started a Supers threads back pre release and was going to use SW as a base also. I have experience with a lot of Supers systems but SW is one of my favorites.

After much much consideration decided to scrap that idea. Not trying to put down your idea, I am more than willing to lend a hand in your conversion.

After I actually received the book and dived into the rules, I decided that systems stands up fairly well as is for Supers and using the magic system. Just a matter of creating different tiers of powers perhaps as @Lord_Lele suggested and giving a level magic as per SW.

3 hours ago, Khaalis said:

@Lord_Lele

Why starting at Tier 2? What about Tier 1 access to superpowers?

@SwivelDiscourse

For Super-Tech, I think it needs to be done like Savage Worlds handles it.

Tier 1 superpower Talent should be a really low-level power and I think is not worthy; if superpowers starting from Tier 2, then your player should think carefully which powers they want to take and how to spend their precious XP.

Maybe you can have some Tier 1 superpower talent like this one:

Advanced movement
Tier 1
You can always stop your fall (grappling hook, gliding cape or other means) and you can move between available surfaces with the standard movement rules, horizontal or vertical, until you have an available surface within extreme range (for example, you cannot move vertical in the middle of a desert or more high than the highest near skycraper).

I've played Mutants and Masterminds for years (1st, 2nd and 3rd edition) and I really want to use Genesys rules for superheroes, so many powers and traits in MnM can easily be converted into Talents without all the hard rules for distance, range, mass, etc... that really bogged down MnM.

IMHO Magic rules cannot really be used for superpowers, because hero always have their power available and ready to use without any real effort (unless you want to create a Dr. Strange wizard superhero); instead I think that many superpowers can directly linked to one or more standard skills and PC need to make a skill check only if trying something dangerous with their power.

Teleport example: normal teleport is only a move action, without any skill check; but if you want to teleport inside collapsing building to save some people, then you need a Coordination skill check.

Psychic power example: communication with ally do not need a skill check; reading mind of a villain may require an opposed Discipline check.

Ranged attack power (blast, laser, missile, heat view, cold breath): Ranged(Heavy or Light) skill check (instead of Arcana or any other magic skill).

What are the Super Powers in the Savage Worlds book? I ask because I don't own anything Savage Worlds, but I really love the supers genre.

If you are open to another way of doing Scale, here's an idea that's based on a different game.

The Dresden Files Accelerated system has a great system for differentiating opposing forces that are at different Supernatural Scales.

In this game, the Scales are:

Ordinary, Supernatural, Otherworldly, Legendary, Godlike.

When forces of different scale oppose each other, what happens in DFA is that the force with the higher scale gains a bonus. It's either a +1 modifier per difference before the roll, a +2 modifier per difference after the die roll If the die roll is successful, or gain a free invoke per difference on a successful create advantage action. The key to this is that the last two options happen only if the die action was successful.

Now in Genesys there isn't really a create advantage action because advantages generally result from play, but this kind of Scale system could easily translate to Genesys.

Examples: Perhaps the force with the higher Scale gains free Boost Dice or imposes Setback Dice on their opposition.

Another thing to do is come up with different Scales of using Advantage, Threat, Triumph and Despair results. A Mundane Ordinary person uses charts as is. Maybe someone Otherworldly gains additional options, more powerful options, etc.

And this is an option that could work without tweaking the core rules all that much.

Everything stated here is just examples and brainstorming of an idea.

I think the basic Magic rules in Genesys could be tweaked and modified to easily do an Effects based Super Powers system. In a way the Magic rules are exactly that. If you want to do an Attack spell, you get to flavor it however you wish, etc.

M&M, Hero System, and Marvel Heroic function on this basis. I don't know how Savage Worlds does it, but I remember SW having a Trappings system, where the power was a base theme and then the player could just use trappings to reflavor it as they wish... which to me seems like an Effect based system.

One thing I'd love to see is adding Talents to do this. Making every Power Effect only attainable from getting the Talent.

Using Teleportation above, perhaps the Talent is called Teleportation, or maybe a bit broader... it can be called Movement. When you pick Movement, you know that your power effect is Movement related. Then you get to define the Movement power as Teleportation.

Maybe this can then provide the player with basic modifiers to their Teleport Power. These modifiers could work similarly to the Magic Additional Effects system works in Genesys Core.

So pick the Movement Talent, gain the Movement power. Flavor it Teleport. Gain the basic Additional Effects that Movement provides. So when you do your Teleport, you can include whatever basic effects you want.

Then there can be the Tier 2 to 5 options where each Tier adds another free Movement Effect to the base Teleport (Movement) option. Maybe most common and obvious choice would be a Distance effect modifier, where each Distance effect adds greater and greater distance to the Teleport (Movement).

But Movement could also be Super-Speed. Or Swinging. Or Tunneling. Or Flying.

---

I also think Tier 5 Power Talents should be pretty potent too.

Attribute Scaling

Attribute Scaling allows superheroes to really “feel” super in Genesys by expanding the scope of what your hero’s attributes really means without having to break the 1-5 attribute rating of the system. Attribute scaling is purchased like any other Ranked Talent, starting at tier 2, and can be purchased for any attribute. Below, Strength is depicted. For each Rank in strength, the hero may lift an object of the listed sillhouette rating with an Average difficulty roll. Additionally, your hero’s melee attacks gain the sunder trait when attacking inanimate, unheld items or structures.

Modifiying Power and Talent Cost

Powers can be modified to better suit the theme of your character, here are a few basic modifiers. If a modifier lowers the cost of a talent to the level of one tier lower than what it is normally purchased at, you may purchase it as if it were at that tier (Purchasing a Tier 2 power as a tier 1 power, etc.) However, you can’t lower a power by more than 1 tier, and you can’t lower the cost of any power to less than 5 XP minimum.

Contingent (-5/ -10)

A Contingent power is triggered on the activation or success of another “primary” power. For –5 points, the Contingent power is only triggered when the primary power is activated. If toughness is linked to altered form, for example, the character cannot use toughness without changing her form.

For –10 points, the Contingent power is activated only with the success of the primary power. Super Vigor might activate only after a villain successfully uses decay on a foe, for example. In either case, if the primary power is deactivated or negated, all Contingent powers are as well. Permanent abilities that are always on, such as ageless, cannot be Contingent.

Device ( -5/ -10)

If the powers are derived from a wearable item that’s hard for a foe to remove, such as a suit of armor, mask, helm, or mystical wristband, reduce the cost by 5. If the item is hand-held and thus can be dropped or disarmed—such as a magic staff or firearm—reduce the cost by 10. Note that unless it says otherwise, a power purchased as an item never works for other characters no matter what they’re called or appear to be.

Limitation ( -5/ -10)

Some powers only work in certain situations, or on certain types of targets. A Minor Limitation, such as only being able to use animal control on mammals, reduces the power’s cost by 1. A Major Limitation, such as only being able to control aquatic creatures, reduces the cost by 10. Limitations can also be used for powers that prohibit the use of others that would normally be allowed. For example, a character who cannot fly while his armor is activated has a Minor Limitation. If his flight renders all his powers inoperative, a Major Limitation might be in order depending on how many other powers he has. The nature of the campaign should also be taken into account. If a hero’s attacks can’t affect anyone wearing the color green, for example, it’s likely Minor. If the main foes of the campaign wear green, however, it’s a Major Limitation.

Projectile (+5)

This Modifier can be used with any Touch Attack power, such as copycat, decay, ensnare, fear, infection, paralysis, or poison. Projectile ties this power to one of the hero’s ranged attack powers. A successful hit with the ranged attack activates the linked power in place of its damage. Resolve the linked power from there. For example, Arrowhead has a tangle arrow (ensnare) tied to his bow’s ranged attack. When he fires the tangle arrow and hits his target, he resolves ensnare rather than rolling damage. Note that Projectile is either/or—the attacker must decide before he fires whether he’s causing damage as usual or using the Projectile.

Ranged Touch Attack (+5)

This Modifier can be applied to any power that requires a Touch Attack. When taken, the character can use the power at medium range band. The Touch Attack is replaced by a straight Fighting roll if the trapping summons some sort of force or material at the spot of the attack (like grasping hands, swirling spirits, or poisonous fauna). The Touch attack is replaced by Shooting or Throwing if the trapping involves firing or hurling some sort of missile such as spiting venom, tossing a grenade, or firing beams from one’s hand or eyes

Requires Activation (-5)

Passive powers such as armor or absorption are considered a hero’s natural state and are always on. With this Modifier, the hero must first activate the power as an incidental. If taken by surprise, for example, the power isn’t active and has no effect. This reduces the cost of the power by 5. Requires Activation has no effect on active powers, such as flight or attacks, since those require actions to perform already (whether a roll is required or not). Once activated, the power remains in effect until the hero decides to drop it. The power also deactivates if the character is Incapacitated, knocked unconscious, or otherwise cannot consciously maintain it.

Slow to Activate (-5)

The hero must charge up a power before it can be used. This requires a full action during which he may do nothing else besides free actions. If the power is normally always active, he should take Requires Activation as well. Once activated, the power remains on until the super wishes to deactivate it. This might mean taking off a suit, calming down, or transforming back into human form, for example. If all a hero’s powers are Slow to Activate, he should use Gimmick instead.

Switchable (+10)

This Modifier allows a character to switch between different powers or sets of powers. Create each power independently. The most expensive is the “primary’ power. Add +10 points for each additional power (or set) it can switch to. The alternate power sets may be created with as many Power Points as the primary (not counting the Switchable Modifier). These points aren’t actually spent and don’t subtract from the hero’s overall Power Points— they’re just an alternate use of the same points. Switching between powers or sets is a free action, but can only be done once per round. Switchable powers can’t use the Requires Activation Modifier, but Slow to Activate may be taken for the primary.

No critics? Nothing to say about it? Well, in the meantime, I'm going to work on the powers themselves. If any of you would like to help, email me at [email protected] and I can mail you a small portion of the Super Powers companion to convert (1-3 pages of powers)

I think Im going to go back to FASERIP for our Supers game. I dont see Genesys cutting it for Supers imo.

I love genesys, but it's not meant for supers and wide range power levels because of the dice pool limits.

I will most likely be converting the BASH system where each type of super-power is a skill, and the advantages modifiers and limiters would be talents and anti-talents.

On 1/14/2018 at 4:30 PM, SwivelDiscourse said:

No critics? Nothing to say about it? Well, in the meantime, I'm going to work on the powers themselves. If any of you would like to help, email me at [email protected] and I can mail you a small portion of the Super Powers companion to convert (1-3 pages of powers)

Idk. I got as much a response to my ideas as you seem to have gotten to yours. Maybe the wrong forum.

@SwivelDiscourse and @Stacie_GmrGrl there is a lot of different opinion on HOW the superpowers should be implemented in Genesys.

• Talents for powers always usable and skill check only for stunts and attack
• Skill for each powerset and a skill check even for using it
• Generic skill like for magic and free forms powers

In my opinion, superpowers are not like magic where you can fail to activate a spell or power.
You always use the power without skill check, unless you want to do something really difficult or under pressure or trying to attack someone or in an opposed scenario.

Example: Green Lantern want to create an energy construct
No skill check if you want to create a wall to stop an escaping car full of minions (if car has a nemesys on board, then a Discipline skill check or a Ranged skill check may be necessary).
Discipline skill check if you are trying to create a bubble to contain an exploding bomb (because green ring is Willpower based).

Moreover, I think that should be better to use the standard skill for the most powers (Coordination for Teleport, Athletics and Coordination for Superspeed, Resilience for physical resistance, Athletics for superstrength, etc...); without a superpowered talent you can only use the skill as any other human, with the superpowered talent the skill can boost your power.