19 minutes ago, Ronu said:It’s a very strong list and different tournaments are showing its potential. The next step may be another change to Genius, it becomes an Action/Free Action where Stress can be used to help mitigate some potential it would also prevent the double mods for harpoons which helps but nor eliminates the issues overall.
I like making genius a discard. But that's still abusive with launch to be honest.
The best fix would be to make Trajectory Simulator large ship only.
5 minutes ago, 6ixorganizer said:The best fix would be to make Trajectory Simulator large ship only.
I disagree with this idea. It appears to have been intended as a Tie Punisher fix but clearly fits on better ships (Nym). Possibly change the title for Scurrg to not add a System slot (thus denying Nym)? Or just errata Genius in some fashion that doesn't work with Trajectory Simulator?
53 minutes ago, Knave Squawk said:I disagree with this idea. It appears to have been intended as a Tie Punisher fix but clearly fits on better ships (Nym). Possibly change the title for Scurrg to not add a System slot (thus denying Nym)? Or just errata Genius in some fashion that doesn't work with Trajectory Simulator?
You dont even have to errata it really, just clarify that "launching" is not "dropping" and Genius no longer works.
IMO that's the rule as intended but who knows for sure
3 hours ago, Hoffburger said:A list winning something in X-Wing isn't evidence of it being correct. We are explicitly talking about the most dominant build, which, if you look at the overall meta across all tournaments and don't just look at who got lucky enough to win, you would see that Proton Nym and Bomblet Miranda is superior to Bomblet Nym and EI Miranda.
Is the latter good enough to take to tournaments? Absolutely, but if you wanted that ever so slightly more optimal build; you'd go with the former.
For me, it's a lot more muddled than that -- I just selected that as an example and to point out that "doing it wrong" just doesn't fit here.
5 minutes ago, HammerGibbens said:You dont even have to errata it really, just clarify that "launching" is not "dropping" and Genius no longer works.
IMO that's the rule as intended but who knows for sure
Its quite simple to read and hard to interpret the way you wrote, unless you got insider information. As Genius just says you may drop after a manouver instead of before and trajectory says when you are about to drop a nonaction bomb you may instead launch it. So its pretty obvious that they work together.
Oh, and QD was in 2 of 4 Lists of top four at the system open this weekend. Does that mean we have to nerf QD as she seems to be a good ship?
On 1/9/2018 at 7:09 PM, Sekac said:But that trick works, at the absolute most, 2 4 times. Then you've got no bombs, no droid, and no system.
Is it really that bad?
yes
4 minutes ago, Rangor said:Its quite simple to read and hard to interpret the way you wrote, unless you got insider information. As Genius just says you may drop after a manouver instead of before and trajectory says when you are about to drop a nonaction bomb you may instead launch it. So its pretty obvious that they work together.
Oh, and QD was in 2 of 4 Lists of top four at the system open this weekend. Does that mean we have to nerf QD as she seems to be a good ship?
There is several tournament's worth of data showing that Quickdraw is strong but probably not meta warping, as the SF has been out for a long time.
The Nymranda combo is relatively new to the scene and we're seeing numbers higher than 50% for list building inclusion in top 8 rather than just top 4 (a rather choosy demographic for you to pick) so no, QD is probably fine and Genius TS is probably the issue.
I have less than 10 real life xwing games and own maybe six ships. I'm about as far from "insider information" as you can get
On 1/9/2018 at 8:46 PM, Rangor said:Next round of same old qq about bombs.
Same player names qqing. Fascinating species.
As can be seen in the tournament scene, due to hard alpha lists Nym is nowhere near the top.
To me, unavoidable alpha at PS11 is far more of a funkiller then having to guess where your opponents bomb will be placed.
What those bomb maps dont show, the Nym player has to decide where to go before the turn starts too.
And it adds a pretty fun element to the game in general, having to interact with your opponent instead of autowin due to better alpha/dicemods.
I agree with you that missiles are a bigger issue, but beyond that all ordinance is the funkiller. the game started dying when bombs, missiles and torps got stupid because they removed the core principles of the first 7 waves. the playerbase is unhappy with PS wars and alpha strike bs, and FFG has put X-wings longjevity in question with this level of powercreep so early in the games lifespan. we need a hard recosting of certain ships/upgrades to keep the rule system from spinning into min-maxed absurdity
10 hours ago, Rangor said:Its quite simple to read and hard to interpret the way you wrote, unless you got insider information. As Genius just says you may drop after a manouver instead of before and trajectory says when you are about to drop a nonaction bomb you may instead launch it. So its pretty obvious that they work together.
Oh, and QD was in 2 of 4 Lists of top four at the system open this weekend. Does that mean we have to nerf QD as she seems to be a good ship?
The thing with QD is that she's a lot like Dengar and Kylo (Pilot). You have a choice on if you want to cause the trigger or not. But she's even more situational because you can potentially shut down her ability in one good shot if you strip her shields. You at least have a choice. With Nym your only "choice" is...don't be anywhere in this 2/3 of the board unless you want to eat 2-3 guaranteed damage. One of which may be a proton bomb under your shields. And then guess what...the same thing is happening the next turn. Plus you have the added fun of EI Miranda having the option of coming in and dropping a cluster on you or just pulling up short and lobbing a harpoon at you.
The range control and ability to punch through unblockable damage is just terrifying to low health ships. I've seen some Nym builds with bomblet and trajectory. I think that is the weaker build than putting Proton and something else (thermals?) on him with trajectory. That ability to throw the proton either at the beginning or the end of your turn is terrifying. You can one shot Corran and Quiz with a direct hit, and if you do it a second time, have a really good shot at killing almost half the small base ships. It's just a terribly broke combo that you have limited counters against outside of running away and hoping you can crap out bombs or have some sort of turreted ship that can fire while running. Which is exactly the list you are running away from.
11 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:yes
Very insightful, thank you.
18 minutes ago, Sekac said:Very insightful, thank you.
thank you for thanking me for my insight!
21 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:Exactly what is the dominant list build?
Probably this:
Captain Nym + Ion Bombs + Proton Bombs + Havoc + Twin Laser Turret + Veteran Instincts + Trajectory Simulator + Harpoon Missiles + Extra Munitions + Genius + Long-Range Scanners
Miranda Doni + Twin Laser Turret + Long-Range Scanners + Sabine Wren + Bomblet Generator + Harpoon Missiles
(95)
Ions or thermals to taste. I've also seen autoblaster and engine on nym to arc dodge.
Maybe making Trajectory Simulator “Large Ship only” would be the way to go.
2 hours ago, viedit said:The thing with QD is that she's a lot like Dengar and Kylo (Pilot). You have a choice on if you want to cause the trigger or not. But she's even more situational because you can potentially shut down her ability in one good shot if you strip her shields. You at least have a choice. With Nym your only "choice" is...don't be anywhere in this 2/3 of the board unless you want to eat 2-3 guaranteed damage. One of which may be a proton bomb under your shields. And then guess what...the same thing is happening the next turn. Plus you have the added fun of EI Miranda having the option of coming in and dropping a cluster on you or just pulling up short and lobbing a harpoon at you.
The range control and ability to punch through unblockable damage is just terrifying to low health ships. I've seen some Nym builds with bomblet and trajectory. I think that is the weaker build than putting Proton and something else (thermals?) on him with trajectory. That ability to throw the proton either at the beginning or the end of your turn is terrifying. You can one shot Corran and Quiz with a direct hit, and if you do it a second time, have a really good shot at killing almost half the small base ships. It's just a terribly broke combo that you have limited counters against outside of running away and hoping you can crap out bombs or have some sort of turreted ship that can fire while running. Which is exactly the list you are running away from.
As my lines about QD were obviously ironic, im gonna skip that part.
How is his bombs guaranteed damage on 2/3 of the board? He has to pick his manouver. if you block him, no bomb. If go go any other direction then he anticipated, he cant hit you with trajectory.
Have you ever played vs QD 3 poons and picked the wrong manouver? guess what, you just lost at least one ship.
Wrong descicions should be punished, good ones should get rewarded.
So dodging Nyms arc around range 2 (trajectory range) is as good of a rewardful action as is getting scum Fen Rau into your range 2 arc with a lower pilot ship.
His bombs are not close to beeing "guaranteed damage".