Hi,

I really believe in the Genesys system. I really think Star Wars rules and class options are a blast (I own them) and I'd like the same for a D&D flavored classic setting (like Forgotten Realms, or Golarion)

I've found a few Genesys settings (Dragonlance and Pathfinder) but I expect at least two things in terms of flavor :

- Talents trees for careers : just like in Star Wars, why don't they talk about that in Genesys (did I miss something ?) ? It gives more personality and uniqueness to careers. I think some people will not want talent trees because basically they are restrictions on talent choices, but in terms of "flavor" I think it can bring more immersion in particular settings.

- Unique spells : Genesys magic system is great, but it is only part of the equation to me. It represents "Runic magic". But I'd like to find specific unique spells that a caster would add, one by one to its "grimoire". Runic magic is just a parallel system, and a caster has to choose his path : Runic magic, classic spellbook arcane magic, divine magic (spellbook as well, but different spells)

Do you expect the same ?

Someone may already have been working on this ?

I feel a bit dispointed because there is no complete fantasy setting coming with Genesys, as is, it is not yet playable... (which is what FFG says, no blame here)

EDIT : maybe I should stop writing and have a look at this : http://www.redshirtdown.com/kingdom/ => AMAZING :)

Check the resources thread in this forum. Several people did a fantasy conversion that had talent trees and some home brew magic (mirrors force powers a but).

I've used the NDS conversion along with some stuff from Plarfems conversion for a Shannara game I ran for my players. It worked surprisingly well for us.

31 minutes ago, vLabz said:

Talents trees for careers : just like in Star Wars, why don't they talk about that in Genesys (did I miss something ?) ? It gives more personality and uniqueness to careers. I think some people will not want talent trees because basically they are restrictions on talent choices, but in terms of "flavor" I think it can bring more immersion in particular settings.

All rules in all RPGs are disposable or alterable if you don't like a specific rule. However Genesys is, a first and foremost , a Toolkit rules set. Like all toolkit rule sets, it does not try to be a setting or specific rule system but merely a set of guidelines on one or more ways of how you MIGHT do something. While Genesys does not "mandate" talent trees, there is no reason why you can't declare that in a given setting or campaign that professions have structured talent trees as Star Wars.

31 minutes ago, vLabz said:

Unique spells : Genesys magic system is great, but it is only part of the equation to me. It represents "Runic magic". But I'd like to find specific unique spells that a caster would add, one by one to its "grimoire". Runic magic is just a parallel system, and a caster has to choose his path : Runic magic, classic spellbook arcane magic, divine magic (spellbook as well, but different spells)

The magic system presented in Genesys is a sample magic system. It is very playable but is not meant to be a Vancian system. There are several topics on this forum discussing how people are converting the (IMHO excessively limiting) pathfinder/Vancian magic to the Genesys system. You can barrow ideas from their works or create your own spells. Many are just doing the conversions from mathfinder as their players add spells to their repertoire.

32 minutes ago, vLabz said:

Do you expect the same ?

While FFG stated that this was a universal system, personally, I was hoping for something a bit more defined on how to create powers, magic, spells, items, etc. As a narrative system, a lot of finer details that are found in most systems is unnecessary since, as a narrative system, they idea of "if its not on your character sheet then your screwed" is a lot less important.

32 minutes ago, vLabz said:

I feel a bit dispointed because there is no complete fantasy setting coming with Genesys, as is, it is not yet playable... (which is what FFG says, no blame here)

FFG and Genesys didn't claim to be any setting. They indicated that there were several sample settings but that was all. These settings, as indicated, are fully playable they are just not highly detailed. They are meant to be starting points not and ending point. But I can relate to your disappointment, my current group has decided to play a broken system for a bit, its called Pathfinder and used the awful d20 system but the setting (world) is pretty decent so I guess thats something in its favor.

Edge of the kingdom was started before the announcement of Genesys. is incomplete, and hasn't been updated since July 2017. It will be interesting to see what effect the release of Genesys has on this project.

2 hours ago, vLabz said:

- Talents trees for careers : just like in Star Wars, why don't they talk about that in Genesys (did I miss something ?) ? It gives more personality and uniqueness to careers. I think some people will not want talent trees because basically they are restrictions on talent choices, but in terms of "flavor" I think it can bring more immersion in particular settings.

I prefer the talent pyramid. I am never 100% satisfied with any career/ class system. None of them ever seem to be exactly what I want to build. Rather than providing a uniqueness I feel it does the opposite. All Rangers get an animal companion and primal spells. What if I don’t want that? What if I want a fighter who’s an outdoorsman. I’d rather custom build what I want from the get go.

2 hours ago, vLabz said:

Unique spells : Genesys magic system is great, but it is only part of the equation to me. It represents "Runic magic". But I'd like to find specific unique spells that a caster would add, one by one to its "grimoire". Runic magic is just a parallel system, and a caster has to choose his path : Runic magic, classic spellbook arcane magic, divine magic (spellbook as well, but different spells)

There’s nothing stopping you from making specific spells from the existing system and saying this is what you can choose from. Requires a lot of work but this is supposed to be a do it yourself kind of framework.

Just after my initial post, the official runebound setting was announced, that partly answers my request for fantasy setting content !

@JorAns: thanks but I did not find any with talent trees in the classic fantasy settings... except Edge of the Kingdom which is great!

@lyinggod: I know rules can be expanded or modified, I'm looking for pointers to exsiting work that implement a classic setting with those features, because it looks a bunch of work to me... Edge of the kindom looks like the most complete setting with talent trees and unique spells. Please read me, I know genesys is just a generic system that you cannot play, I'm just sharing that frustration without blaming FFG. Again, I never talked about Vancian magic, I'm talking about unique spells which is most classic and well known approach of magic in the world (just name your spell, this is not about runes or magic words that you have to combine). Vancian is just a way of ruling the use spells and I don't want it.

On 09/01/2018 at 3:32 PM, ESP77 said:

I prefer the talent pyramid. I am never 100% satisfied with any career/ class system. None of them ever seem to be exactly what I want to build. Rather than providing a uniqueness I feel it does the opposite. All Rangers get an animal companion and primal spells. What if I don’t want that? What if I want a fighter who’s an outdoorsman. I’d rather custom build what I want from the get go.

Believe me, I really share what you express here. I've always been quite upset with D&D and pathfinder and fantasy craft classes where you know in advance what you will have at each level for 70% of your abilities. The classes are all canned. And multi-classing in that context is no solution because again the new class is also canned. I'm upset for example about the ranger having to get the "favored enemy" ability => is it the way all rangers have to be ? Why is there no choice ? => to allow more source books propose new archetypes or variants... Why are all those rules so bulky ?

However I admit that restrictions imposed by classes bring some consistency to the setting, because the main way your character can learn advanced things is with an organization (guilds, academies, churches for clerics), which implies and standardized way of teaching things. In that sense, I realize not so long ago that classes are entirely part of a setting and bring a real flavor to it. You're just part of this world.

On the opposite, being free of choosing any talent in a flat way (just respecting their levels) is overwhelming. It removes a lot of the "personality" you can give to a character, because he would have no clear identity. And it makes thinks too complex IMHO (I'm not even considering balance because I don't care too much). I think you need a sense of progression in a focus your character is supposed to be good at, and that specialization is the best way to achieve this. That is why I would still group talents.

My dream system would be talent trees by theme (melee combat, ranged combat, arcane magic, nature, divine magic, skullduggery), and sub-themes (two handed, one handed with shield, finesse, schools of magic, companion, shapeshifting etc.). You pay a cost for every new tree you open, the "farther" the tree from your original one, the bigger the cost... I never found such a system, but classes like SW and their specializations are not so far from what I'm looking for. Of course you need premade classes for begginers, and it can be a good thing to name specific trees combinations in order to "identify" what people are doing (alchemist, ranger, archeologist, etc.)

Edge of the Kingdom does a very good job at this because talent trees and ability trees really feel like a "theme", and not so much like well round path for a character. By mixing trees you get what you want, while fitting into a clear role in the world you're in.

On 09/01/2018 at 3:32 PM, ESP77 said:

There’s nothing stopping you from making specific spells from the existing system and saying this is what you can choose from. Requires a lot of work but this is supposed to be a do it yourself kind of framework.

Yes, yes, but if I can spare me the work... I'd like to make small adaptations of a solid system, not a whole conversion work... That is why I'm asking here for settings in the work or done. However, I hope the runebound setting will be rich enough to be a good base for adapting a fantasy setting. For now, I should have fun with Edge of the Kingdom.

1 hour ago, vLabz said:

Yes, yes, but if I can spare me the work... I'd like to make small adaptations of a solid system, not a whole conversion work... That is why I'm asking here for settings in the work or done. However, I hope the runebound setting will be rich enough to be a good base for adapting a fantasy setting. For now, I should have fun with Edge of the Kingdom.

I understand that. As much as I love creating content and world building I get it can be a grind.

1 hour ago, vLabz said:

My dream system would be talent trees by theme (melee combat, ranged combat, arcane magic, nature, divine magic, skullduggery), and sub-themes (two handed, one handed with shield, finesse, schools of magic, companion, shapeshifting etc.). You pay a cost for every new tree you open, the "farther" the tree from your original one, the bigger the cost... I never found such a system, but classes like SW and their specializations are not so far from what I'm looking for. Of course you need premade classes for begginers, and it can be a good thing to name specific trees combinations in order to "identify" what people are doing (alchemist, ranger, archeologist, etc.)

I understand @TheSapient is considering giving out grants to people who want to keyword Genesys Talents Expanded - jk

On 09/01/2018 at 10:24 AM, vLabz said:

- Talents trees for careers : just like in Star Wars, why don't they talk about that in Genesys (did I miss something ?) ? It gives more personality and uniqueness to careers. I think some people will not want talent trees because basically they are restrictions on talent choices, but in terms of "flavor" I think it can bring more immersion in particular settings.

- Unique spells : Genesys magic system is great, but it is only part of the equation to me. It represents "Runic magic". But I'd like to find specific unique spells that a caster would add, one by one to its "grimoire". Runic magic is just a parallel system, and a caster has to choose his path : Runic magic, classic spellbook arcane magic, divine magic (spellbook as well, but different spells)

Talent tree it's good. Unique spells i don't think is important. Eventhough a player could create 12312312412 spells i'm sure sure if a regular player will do that.

And the classes could have one tree and archetypes could be just and adaptation, like switching 5 to 10 talents and ofering a new set of skills. It's better than create a new tree for every archetype.

And just I small thought about talent trees: despite the Star Wars offer a full 4x5 skill tree, in nowhere is said that the tree must be like this always. We can create 3x5, 5x5, 6x5, 7x7, idk. It's up to our creativity to expand and add more stuff if we think it's necessary.

I was thinking of coming up with Talent Trees for things like Supernatural Lineages for an urban fantasy idea. An example: A Tier 1 Talent could be Shapeshifter (Lycanthrope) where you can pick your animal form and gain a basic character ability. If you want to keep taking Lycanthrope related Talents, you can with every Tier and they'd be designed in a Tree-like format. Take Tier 1, could lead to a Tier 2, then possibly a couple Tier 3 options that can lead to different Tier 5's.

I haven't worked on it yet, but it's one approach to Talent Trees to fit a specific kind of genre convention.