As I stated in a different topic - I don’t like the conflict system - but I’m happy to run with it

We had a situation tonight where I gained conflict (no issue with this) but I’m REALLY interested in seeing how much other people would have awarded

The GM running the game I’m in came up with a number I have no issue overall with but I’d REALLY like to have more faith in the way it works, so this is NOT me saying he did anything wrong (he didn’t).

so - I’m the only force sensitive in a rebel cell - we are on Junkfort Station for resupply and the rebel sympathisers ask our paranoid group member to help sort out a problem- that of an imperial listening post disguised as a radio station on a ship attached to Junkfort

Eventually he tells us that the radio station is feeding low level info to the imperials (not exactly what was asked of us) and basically low plays it as a job that’s not important for us to do

No problem - that’s his character

I get the opportunity to plant evidence against the radio station saying that they were trying to set the Junkfort Gangs against each other to weaken them

This works

Now what I was expecting IC (he’s a n00b) was the info to dry up going to the station and maybe then getting pushed around

What happened is that two gangs tried to invade the ship, which detached from the airlock to prevent them breaking in, spacing 2 gang members- and then causing a shootout between the two gangs as they argued over whoes fault it was

I was asleep on our ship at the time and was woken up to be told that the gangs were trying to break into the other ship - Id been very busy IC so he said he worry about it in the morning and went back to sleep

Question: How much conflict would you have awarded?

This reminds me of kotor 2 when you try to give aid to refugees but other refugees end up bashing the other one for the goods.

in your case if you have some kind of mentor, I would have got the mentor to explain not all help results in positive outcomes and some conflicts are just better left alone.

If conflict was to be given, I would have made you talk to one of the gangs to see the consequences of your actions and its repercussions. Maybe one gang does not does trust you anymore, the rebel sympathisers. If so I would give you 2-3 conflict.

As the GM, I probably wouldn't have awarded your character any Conflict for that sequence of events.

Yes, your character did plant deliberate disinformation, but it wasn't exactly for personal gain since your PC didn't directly benefit from it, and using the Table 9-2 chart on page 324, it does say that "some lies can be told without penalty to benefit others, such as avoiding conflict or protecting innocents."

Also, if I'm reading the post right, your character wasn't at the scene when the two gang members (who were attacking your ship, so they weren't innocent bystanders by any stretch) wound up getting spaced, so again no Conflict since you weren't even present much less involved.

I'd say the relevant part is "knowing inaction".

Your lie (planting evidence) is unproblematic since it's not for your personal gain. The violence that ensued was not what you had in mind when you did it, so you're not directly responsible for it (I would assume that manipulating people into action with obvious conflict results should carry roughly the same amount of conflict with it). The problem only really starts when you hear about things going sideways and don't at least investigate or intervene - thus, "knowing inaction", worth one whole point of conflict.

Id side with no conflict here.

No conflict points here if you ask me.

I'd say it's less relevant to talk about what Conflict your GM or anyone else did or would give you, but rather; How did your GM handle the Conflict moment?

So long as the moment you planted that evidence he said, "You will receive Conflict equal to whatever the actions of the Gangs are, as a result of this 'evidence' being found." and gave you the chance to pick the evidence back up and walk away. Then whatever he decides is fine.

The important part about the Morality/Conflict mechanic is that the stakes are on the table for the player to weigh, not that the GM follows table 9-2 to the letter. The former is a necessary part of the GMs job and for Morality to be a carrot not a whip. The latter is not.

Heh, the GM here, and I was conflicted what to give. This is how I saw it.

Your character was given a shake down to try to extort money. You could have talked your way past them, but instead persuaded them to come back to the ship to talk to your money guy (who you know has a history of blowing problems up), tell them to wait outside and give them beer. You then drop the problem in his lap and go to bed.

Another character also gives them beer, whilst they wait outside the ship, in a dangerous gang ridden space station, locked out.

When the other characters see another gang approaching, they decide to watch what happens. When it devolves into a fight, the drunk gangers try to seek shelter in the ship, but are locked out, as the characters watch them losing the fight. Eventually after three are down, one character switches off the gravity, effectively ending the fight, and notifies the authorities.

You then persuade the (very corrupt) authorities to blame the rise in gang warfare on the listening station, with the intention of strong arming them off (presumably by violent gang action?). In the middle of the night you are woken by another character with the news that the gangs are breaking through the the listening station (a ship) airlock. You decide to ignore it and go back to sleep.

The ship with the listening station then undocks, spacing a couple of gangers, and leaving the rest arguing violently amongst themselves.

Which left me with a dilemma. You have set up two situations where you could expect violence, and these led to the deaths of at least 5 people. The characters have been made aware of the escalations to violence (and in the second case you also, by them), and chosen to do nothing.

Thoughts?

Edit - Only the OP is affected by Morality rules.

Actually I was expecting our demolitionist to Just use his deceit to get rid of them, not to go down the route he did

if I had been aware of the brewing conflict I’d have let them on the ship and charged them the exact equivalent of what they wanted to shake us down for - everyone wins

(Side note was also trying to get people who had been stuck on the ship involved and my character HAD been busy and was knackered)

I actually didn’t expect them to raid the ship of the radio station and even if I had woken up fully wouldn’t have been able to do anything about it

as I’ve previously said - no issue in what you awarded - I’m just trying to buy into the system (not working so far!!!) ?

Ps I’d also been told IC by the demo that the gangs were all very nasty folk - so I had MUCH less worry about setting two enemies on each other

17 hours ago, Random Bystander said:

As I stated in a different topic - I don’t like the conflict system - but I’m happy to run with it

We had a situation tonight where I gained conflict (no issue with this) but I’m REALLY interested in seeing how much other people would have awarded

The GM running the game I’m in came up with a number I have no issue overall with but I’d REALLY like to have more faith in the way it works, so this is NOT me saying he did anything wrong (he didn’t).

so - I’m the only force sensitive in a rebel cell - we are on Junkfort Station for resupply and the rebel sympathisers ask our paranoid group member to help sort out a problem- that of an imperial listening post disguised as a radio station on a ship attached to Junkfort

Eventually he tells us that the radio station is feeding low level info to the imperials (not exactly what was asked of us) and basically low plays it as a job that’s not important for us to do

No problem - that’s his character

I get the opportunity to plant evidence against the radio station saying that they were trying to set the Junkfort Gangs against each other to weaken them

This works

Now what I was expecting IC (he’s a n00b) was the info to dry up going to the station and maybe then getting pushed around

What happened is that two gangs tried to invade the ship, which detached from the airlock to prevent them breaking in, spacing 2 gang members- and then causing a shootout between the two gangs as they argued over whoes fault it was

I was asleep on our ship at the time and was woken up to be told that the gangs were trying to break into the other ship - Id been very busy IC so he said he worry about it in the morning and went back to sleep

Question: How much conflict would you have awarded?

Probably 1 or 2. You get hit for lying for personal gain. You planted evidence against someone who wasn't an immediate threat towards you and thereby inadvertently caused an attack. You were asleep during said attack, so no conflict for not stepping in there since there was nothing you could do.

So yeah, lying for personal gain and possibly a milder version of theft since you reverse-stole evidence.

8 hours ago, Darzil said:

Heh, the GM here, and I was conflicted what to give. This is how I saw it.

Your character was given a shake down to try to extort money. You could have talked your way past them, but instead persuaded them to come back to the ship to talk to your money guy (who you know has a history of blowing problems up), tell them to wait outside and give them beer. You then drop the problem in his lap and go to bed.

Another character also gives them beer, whilst they wait outside the ship, in a dangerous gang ridden space station, locked out.

When the other characters see another gang approaching, they decide to watch what happens. When it devolves into a fight, the drunk gangers try to seek shelter in the ship, but are locked out, as the characters watch them losing the fight. Eventually after three are down, one character switches off the gravity, effectively ending the fight, and notifies the authorities.

You then persuade the (very corrupt) authorities to blame the rise in gang warfare on the listening station, with the intention of strong arming them off (presumably by violent gang action?). In the middle of the night you are woken by another character with the news that the gangs are breaking through the the listening station (a ship) airlock. You decide to ignore it and go back to sleep.

The ship with the listening station then undocks, spacing a couple of gangers, and leaving the rest arguing violently amongst themselves.

Which left me with a dilemma. You have set up two situations where you could expect violence, and these led to the deaths of at least 5 people. The characters have been made aware of the escalations to violence (and in the second case you also, by them), and chosen to do nothing.

Thoughts?

Edit - Only the OP is affected by Morality rules.

This is a pretty different story though. Definitely lying for personal gain in telling them to talk to your money guy. There is also telling someone with known violent tendencies to deal with it, which could very well be knowing inaction. Then there is being woken up and alerted to the troubles and going back to sleep, more knowing inaction.

End sum would probably be 4 to 6 conflict points. Doled out over various actions and with warnings on them. None of them appear to have been made with ill intentions as such, but they are all actions that could very well lead to dangerous situations for others. These others might not be innocent, but that is not an aspect of conflict or the force. You gain the same conflict for striking down an old lady in anger as you do a genocidal maniac.

To be fair I did actually expect our money man to speak to him!

So serious question - if you take an action and someone comes to harm because of it and you don’t know about it do you get the conflict?

That depends, was them getting hurt a possible or even likely outcome? In that case I would say conflict is a possibility, especially if you find out they are hurting from it and don't intervene.

By the rules, you are to be warned by the GM any time an action will result in your character being awarded Conflict points. Sometimes there are things out of your character's control that would award Conflict, such as failing a Fear check that the GM had you roll, but the majority of Conflict awarded is from actions the PC takes and should therefore have a warning attached.

That said, the rules of any rpg are guidelines and specifically tell the GM that they have the power to alter any rules for their gaming table. The best thing in this instance as a GM is to be upfront and open about any changes you made before the game begins, or if your players are cool with it, informing them you would like to try something different but getting their buy-in before implementing said new rules. Minor things in the moment, such as how much Conflict should be awarded for something, are not really rules changes and are more situations the GM is there to make decisions on to keep the game moving.

As I see it, there could be Conflict awarded up to about 5 for what was done but I'd probably only have awarded it if the PC found out their actions caused such violence and chose not to stop it. I say 5 because the entry would be knowing inaction (1 Conflict) if the player chose to sit and watch a situation they started that takes a turn for the worse. Depending on the severity of the situation, award an additional 1-4 Conflict, resulting in 5 total Conflict for a pretty bad situation they could have stopped. I might even award it in increments of 1 as well, each time the PC heard about the situation deteriorating and chose not to intervene, giving them progressive hints in that way that maybe they should get involved.

Basically, I would inform the player that their actions are going to award Conflict before letting them go through with an action that I as the GM knows will head towards violence and suffering. The player doesn't need to know how the situation will give them Conflict, just that their action will award them Conflict.

That said, there does need to be a line drawn as to how much of an influence on a situation would award the PC any Conflict. Giving food to the homeless wouldn't award Conflict but how would that PC or the player themself be able to know that there was a local gang that found and mugged the homeless because they had food? Their actions were entirely noble and they weren't responsible for the homeless being assaulted. I would say, though, that the PC would definitely gain Conflict if they saw it happening and didn't intervene.