13 minutes ago, ErikModi said:

Main Force And Destiny. Basically, it's -5 XP to the cost of the basic level of all Force Powers.

Where? I've just scrolled through entire Force section and found nothing

At work and don't have my books, but I believe it's more in the character creation section. It's one of the benefits the group can have access too, like a holocron.

Just met with friend and:

Commiting dice difficulty tier

Each power that can be sustained has a Maintenance difficulty tier. When activating ongoing effects of a Force Power you suffer ill effects corresponding to this Power's tier

0 - One Force Rating doesn't remove a Setback from Force Defense. (for example Ebb/Flow, Enhance, maybe Sense)

I - One Force Rating doesn't remove a Setback from Force Defense and doesn't remove a difficulty die in checks with corresponding skill. (Misdirect Control Upgrade, Suppress, Imbue, Seek)

II- One Force Rating doesn't remove a Setback from Force Defense, doesn't remove a difficulty die in checks with corresponding skill and you must spend a single maneuver during your turn. (Bind, Seek Control Upgrade, Battle Meditation, Misdirect, Heal/Harm)

III - You must spend an action during your turn. (Misdirect Mastery Upgrade, Battle Meditation Mastery Upgrade)

Crowd Control tier

When affected by some effect, pass a Discipline check with difficulty equal to sum of Commited dice tiers (for example two I tier powers and a single II tier power needs a Formidable Discipline check).

I you fail this check, some of the powers cease to work.

1 - disorient, knocked prone - if failed, stop any tier III powers

2 - immobilize - if failed, stop any tier II & III powers

3 - stagger - if failed, stop any tier I, II & III powers

If you become incapacitated, immediately stop all Force Powers.

6 hours ago, ErikModi said:

At work and don't have my books, but I believe it's more in the character creation section. It's one of the benefits the group can have access too, like a holocron.

Found it, thanks

13 hours ago, MrKillean said:

Just met with friend and:

Commiting dice difficulty tier

Each power that can be sustained has a Maintenance difficulty tier. When activating ongoing effects of a Force Power you suffer ill effects corresponding to this Power's tier

0 - One Force Rating doesn't remove a Setback from Force Defense. (for example Ebb/Flow, Enhance, maybe Sense)

I - One Force Rating doesn't remove a Setback from Force Defense and doesn't remove a difficulty die in checks with corresponding skill. (Misdirect Control Upgrade, Suppress, Imbue, Seek)

III- One Force Rating doesn't remove a Setback from Force Defense, doesn't remove a difficulty die in checks with corresponding skill and you must spend a single maneuver during your turn. (Bind, Seek Control Upgrade, Battle Meditation, Misdirect, Heal/Harm)

III - You must spend an action during your turn. (Misdirect Mastery Upgrade, Battle Meditation Mastery Upgrade)

Crowd Control tier

When affected by some effect, pass a Discipline check with difficulty equal to sum of Commited dice tiers (for example two I tier powers and a single II tier power needs a Formidable Discipline check).

I you fail this check, some of the powers cease to work.

1 - disorient, knocked prone - if failed, stop any tier III powers

2 - immobilize - if failed, stop any tier II & III powers

3 - stagger - if failed, stop any tier I, II & III powers

If you become incapacitated, immediately stop all Force Powers.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at with this. Seems needlessly complex and confusing. What's the purpose behind this, what's the flaw in the system its intended to correct?

As an aside, for adding Force Rating to Skill Checks, just add Boost Dice equal to ranks in the appropriate Force Skill. So (going off my version of skills), when using Enhance to add Force Dice to Athletics, you add Boost Dice equal to your ranks in Control instead.

@ErikModi Well.. yeah. The Crowd Control Tier list is needlessly confusing, I must admit. It is just an experiment.

The Commiting Dice Difficulty Tier list is in my mind a simpler way to list the cost of maintaining a Force Power instead of giving a full description on every single Duration Upgrade.

When it comes to adding Force Dice to Skill Checks it's either that or summing Athletics and Control (in your skills) and every rank beyond 5 adds a Boost Die.

1 minute ago, MrKillean said:

When it comes to adding Force Dice to Skill Checks it's either that or summing Athletics and Control (in your skills) and every rank beyond 5 adds a Boost Die.

I had that thought as well.

But the whole "difficulty tier thing" is confusing to me. I honestly have no idea what any of it means. What's wrong with just Committing the Force Die as normal, and suffering the effects of reduced Force Rating (less ability to punch through Force Defense)?

Just now, ErikModi said:

But the whole "difficulty tier thing" is confusing to me. I honestly have no idea what any of it means. What's wrong with just Committing the Force Die as normal, and suffering the effects of reduced Force Rating (less ability to punch through Force Defense)?

I just think that effects of reduced Force Rating aren't severe enough in comparison with older system

Perhaps. But I try and make House Rules fit as seamlessly into written material as possible, partly because I'm lazy and don't want to rewrite a bunch of stuff, and partly because it just makes it easier for everyone else.

I'm not sure calling out specific powers as "better" when Committing is the right solution, which I think is what you're aiming at. Maybe adding Setback dice to Force Rolls for each Committed Force Die? Or a difficulty upgrade for each Committed die?

In a few hours I'm running a session so I will discuss everything we talked about here with them and will update you on our conclusions Stand by for further info

Okay, I just had a wacky thought.

Instead of having the Characteristic rolled for a Force Skill be based on the individual Force Power, or linking the Force Skills to Characteristics on their own, what about Force Rating being the Characteristic for Force Skills? So if you have Force Rating one and one rank in a Force Skill, your dice pool would be 1 Proficiency Die. If your FR is 1 and you have two ranks, you have a Proficiency and Ability. Committing Force Dice would therefore lower your Force Rating, and thus the Proficiency dice you roll for other powers.

@ErikModi That... Sounds genius! Well, I'm not sure about that but at first glance it seems great.

EDIT

It seems great! In addition to using it as a characteristic for Force Power Checks and solving Commiting Dice problem:

Talents that add Force Dice to checks could be ruled as "you may use Force Rating as a characteristic when performing X checks"

No need for this fancy "whenever you purchase a rank in Force Rating choose a Force Skill..." thing

I liked the idea of using Cunning to Misdirect someone or using Presence to affect people by Battle Meditation, though.

EDIT 2

Indeed! You're a genius!

In addition to using Force Rating as a characteristic, I know how to use other characteristics to emphasize Force being quite naturally tied to existing characteristics.

You talked about dividing upgrades using tiers. I figured out that this system can help me achieve the feel I'm looking for.

So I divided upgrades into 5 tiers, ruling that you can only use upgrades from tier equal to or lower than given characteristic (for example Heal/Harm --> Intellect)

On 1st tier are Basic Powers (which you need to purchase), while at the 5th tier are Mastery Upgrades

So Heal/Harm (Intellect) would look something like

I - Basic Power [Alter(FR)]

II - Magnitude, Range

III - Control A, Control B

IV - Control C, Control D, Duration

V - Mastery

If I'm understanding the last part right, that causes a problem, since Characteristics won't increase solidly through play (only with the Dedication talent) characters will be locked out of getting Force Powers they may want because the rest of their character is focused on different characteristics. Like someone who wants to be a big, strong brawler type, but wants to be good with the Harm power, won't have Intellect to unlock higher tiers for the power.

EDIT: Maybe add Force Rating and Linked Characteristic together? So someone with a high Brawn would have a natural affinity for a Force Power linked to Brawn, but eventually, with gaining Force Rating and Dedication talents, could learn all the Force Powers?

4 hours ago, MrKillean said:

Talents that add Force Dice to checks could be ruled as "you may use Force Rating as a characteristic when performing X checks"

Hmm. Maybe use the Assistance rules. If Force Rating is higher than the Characteristic, use FR as the Characteristic. If ranks in the applicable Force Skill are higher, use them as Ranks in that skill. If they're all exactly the same, get a Boost die.

For instance, Enhance Basic, add Force Rating to Athletics checks. If you have Brawn 2 and Force Rating for, your Characteristic for the Athletics check is 4. If you have zero ranks in Athletics but 4 ranks in Control, your ranks are four. So while your normal dice pool for an Athletics check would be 2 Ability Dice (2 Brawn and Zero Ranks), when using Enhance it's 4 Proficiency (Force Rating Four, Four Ranks in Control).

20 hours ago, ErikModi said:

If I'm understanding the last part right, that causes a problem, since Characteristics won't increase solidly through play (only with the Dedication talent) characters will be locked out of getting Force Powers they may want because the rest of their character is focused on different characteristics. Like someone who wants to be a big, strong brawler type, but wants to be good with the Harm power, won't have Intellect to unlock higher tiers for the power.

EDIT: Maybe add Force Rating and Linked Characteristic together? So someone with a high Brawn would have a natural affinity for a Force Power linked to Brawn, but eventually, with gaining Force Rating and Dedication talents, could learn all the Force Powers?

You do understand the last part right but I don't see it as a problem. You can have a big, strong character and use Heal/Harm proficiently and with high success rate but without enough predisposition in (in this case) Intellect you will not be able to use more complex and sophisticated versions of that power.

In addition, as a GM, you may send your PC on a quest to find a long lost holocron covering arcane techniques of Healing enabling your PC to use Heal/Harm upgrades with one higher tier than Intellect.

20 hours ago, ErikModi said:

Hmm. Maybe use the Assistance rules. If Force Rating is higher than the Characteristic, use FR as the Characteristic. If ranks in the applicable Force Skill are higher, use them as Ranks in that skill. If they're all exactly the same, get a Boost die.

For instance, Enhance Basic, add Force Rating to Athletics checks. If you have Brawn 2 and Force Rating for, your Characteristic for the Athletics check is 4. If you have zero ranks in Athletics but 4 ranks in Control, your ranks are four. So while your normal dice pool for an Athletics check would be 2 Ability Dice (2 Brawn and Zero Ranks), when using Enhance it's 4 Proficiency (Force Rating Four, Four Ranks in Control).

I think that this example would be a little over the top but maybe:

• Athletics 0
• Control 4
• Brawn 2
• Force rating 4

As with assistance, you would lend either skill or characteristic (whichever better) so either Athletics(Force Rating) or Control(Brawn) .

The latter would be higher, creating a pool of 2 Ability and 2 Proficiency Dice (4 ranks in Control and Brawn of 2)

1 hour ago, MrKillean said:

I think that this example would be a little over the top but maybe:

• Athletics 0
• Control 4
• Brawn 2
• Force rating 4

As with assistance, you would lend either skill or characteristic (whichever better) so either Athletics(Force Rating) or Control(Brawn) .

The latter would be higher, creating a pool of 2 Ability and 2 Proficiency Dice (4 ranks in Control and Brawn of 2)

Well, except that Force Rating would replace Brawn, since both would count as Characteristics, while Control would replace Athletics, since both are Skills.

23 hours ago, ErikModi said:

Well, except that Force Rating would replace Brawn, since both would count as Characteristics, while Control would replace Athletics, since both are Skills.

Yeah, but according to Assisted Skill Check rules in paragraph about skilled assistance you use one PC's Characteristic and other PC's Ranks in applicable Skill .

I this case I consider PC and "Force" to be our PCs assisting each other:

• PC's applicable Skill is Athletics with ranks of 0 and Characteristic is Brawn of 2,
• Force's applicable Skill is Control with ranks of 4 and Characteristic is Force Rating of 4.

You choose one's Skill and other's Characteristic, In this case you have a choice between Athletics coupled with Force Rating or Control coupled with Brawn .

The latter would be higher, creating a pool of GGYY.

EDIT

The point is that you cannot borrow both Skill and Characteristic when benefiting from assistance so no Athletics(Brawn) ---> Control(Force Rating)

Ah, I was misreading what you'd written. Thought you were saying you'd roll Force Rating instead of Athletics, or Control instead of Brawn, not Athletics linked to Force Rating, or Control linked with Brawn.

My bad.

So. . . anything more with this?

I apologize for leaving the topic without a word but unfortunately my account was temporarily unavailable and I didn't even realize that. That's why it took me several days to work out what's wrong.

In days to come I'm going to write and publish an alpha version of this project including:

• core mechanics of new system
• a few example force powers
• task list and ideas

I also want to thank everyone contributing to this project, it was a great opportunity for me to collaborate with forum users.

Special thanks to @ErikModi who helped me a great deal, giving ideas and participating in a meaningful discussion. It was a pleasure

Here we go!

In the first place I must apologize for the delay. I admit I haven't had motivation to continue this project (maybe because I was a player not GM for a while)

Here I post the first draft of rules. These are just edited core rules from FaD. My friend will help me write more clear and consistent rules, while I will get the fancy graphics on the later stage (likely after getting all powers ready)

List of Powers ready for testing: Sense, Influence, Farsight, Bind, Seek, Enhance

I post rules in docx format. If anyone needs a pdf version, I will post it in a while.

Force powers come in format looking like this

Tier Characteristic1 Characteristic2 ......

I Basic Power

II Upgrade1 Upgrade2

III Upgrade2 Upgrade3

IV Upgrade4 Upgrade1

V Mastery Upgrade

You can mix-n-match upgrades among tiers. To give example - in force power Enhance - upgrade enabling leap as a maneuver is at tier IV(Agility) but at tier V(Brawn) because I feel that it fits agility way better thematically. Not every Force Power uses more than one characteristic for tiers - for example Bind would only be determined by Willpower.

I invite everyone to participate

Force rules - v1.0.docx

It’s not working ?

im keen to compare notes as I have the same project going on at the moment, although I’m going slightly differently about it

Here’s my notes (all of them!)

Skilled Force Use

Force Rating becomes a 7th characteristic, but can’t be raised by Dedication, only the normal Force Rating Increase Talent. For Genesys that means a Tier 2 talent that grants Force Rating 1, and a Tier 4 ranked Talent that increases Force Rating (The minimum xp cost for FR 5 is higher in Genesys, but you can much easier be a Spell Sword because of the talent structure). Possibly this characteristic has a cap of 6 or 7, but it needs testing.

Any Commit force dice action reduces this characteristic. Any powers like Enhance that combine Force dice with skill checks instead allow you to use your Force Characteristic or Force Skill in Place of the usual characteristic or skill.

Force Skills are used to activate Force Powers, they always use your Force Characteristic to build the dice pool. 1 Skill is too few, 5 may be the limit on how many, the traditional 3 from WEG are far too unbalanced (Alter is ridiculous), but the multiple skill requirements kind of fixes this problem. So three skills Control, Sense, Alter

Some powers have multiple skill requirements, the bigger powers. You must use the lowest of the two skills required for building the dice pool when using that power. As an example the Protect/Unleash power would be linked to Control and Alter, to use that Power you start with comparing your ranks in those two skills. The lowest rank is then used with your Force Characteristic to build the dice pool.

Eg: Control 3, Alter 2 and FC 1 would result in a pool of AP.

Force Powers are rewritten. The base power will have a set difficulty in place of the normal Force Pip cost. Each upgrade that normally requires additional force Pips adds difficultly to the check instead. Some upgrades will require Advantage/Triumph to be spent. I’ll put some examples at the end of the post

(This part I’m unsure of) All Force Users may flip a Destiny Point/Story Point to reroll a number of positive dice up to their Force Characteristic when using the Force Characteristic or Force Skillto make a check (ability/proficiency calculation). For each die re-rolled they suffer 1 Conflict and 1 Strain. I think it’s as tempting as using the dark Force Pips for a LS character, I just don’t know if it’s too weak (no control over S/A) or overpowered.

Force Powers

These hold the same structure as in F&D, with the same xp costs. Their methods of activation, and in some cases the results of activation, would be changed to the following list. None of this is play tested so it’s likely that some need tweaking:

Battle Meditation, Sense and Alter

Basic Average Difficulty,

Magnitude +1 Difficulty,

Range +1 Difficulty,

2 Advantage to trigger Magnitude or range additional times,

Triumph to trigger strength multiple times.

Bind, Sense and Alter:

Basic Average Difficulty (Damage equal to Difficulty if Dark Side used),

Range +1 Difficulty,

Strength +1 Difficultly,

Magnitude +2 Difficulty,

both Control’s activated with 2 Advantage.

Mastery: Upgrade Difficulty by targets Discipline or Willpower (choose highest), Crit + 10 per Difficulty of Check.

Ebb/Flow, Sense:

f’d if I know, using the Force Characteristic is worthless until FR 3 at least, perhaps Boost dice is the way to go with Advantage costs for all the effects. But why, especially for getting Advantage on another check, its worthless. Is it Better to modify Curse/Augment into it?

Ebb/Flow, Sense, option 1:

Basic: add boost equal to Force Rating, Ebb suffer 1 Strain and spend 1 Advantage to inflict 1 Strain on all Engaged. Flow spend 1 Advantage to recover 2 Strain. Only activate once

Strength 1: activate Base up to ranks in Sense.

Range: Add 2 Failure to the results of the check to increase the range to Short

Magnitude: Spend 1 Advantage to exclude a number of targets up to ranks in magnitude purchased.

Control Threat/Advantage: Ebb Spend 1 Strain to add Threat to all checks made by Engaged until next turn. Flow Spend 1 Strain to add Advantage, only active once.

Strength Advantage/Threat: Spend Strain up to ranks in Sense on Advantage/Threat

Control Success/Failure: Ebb Spend 1 Strain to add Failure to all checks made by Engaged until next turn. Flow Spend 1 Strain to add Success, only active once.

Strength Success/Failure: Spend Strain up to ranks in Sense on Success/Failure

Control: Yes/No Question Spend 3 Advantage or 1 Triumph

Control Commit: Commit Force Rating, Add Boost equal to committed force rating. Suffer 1 Strain and 1 Conflict for every Advantage rolled on the Boost dice.

Mastery: remains as is, the Flow option is easier to trigger so perhaps the required number of Strain could be increased.

Enhance, Control :

Basic may choose to Substitute Control Skill for Athletics or Force Rating for Brawn when making an Athletics Check.

Upgrades mimic.

Force Leap Easy Difficulty Control Skill for Short, Average Difficulty for Medium.

Farsight, Control:

Basic Easy Difficulty Control Skill Check,

Range +1 Difficulty (2 Advantage to active multiple times),

Duration +1 Difficulty (2 Advantage to activate multiple times),

Control Vigilance/Perception same as Enhance,

Control Commit as normal,

Control 360deg 2 Advantage,

remaining 3 Control 1 Advantage to active,

Mastery +2 Difficulty.

Foresee, Sense:

Basic: Average Difficulty Sense Skill check,

Strength +1 Difficulty,

Duration +1 Difficultly.

Control Initiative same as Enhance,

Magnitude 1 Advantage to trigger,

Range 1 Advantage to trigger,

Control Manoeuvre +1 Difficulty to Initiative Check.

Heal/Harm, Sense & Alter:

Basic: Average Difficulty,

Range +1 Difficulty (1 Advantage to activate additional times),

Magnitude +2 Difficulty (2 Advantage to activate additional times),

Strength +1 Difficulty (1 Advantage to activate additional times),

Control Remove Status/Dark Heal +1 Difficulty.

Mastery 4 Advantage or 1 Triumph.

Control Heal Crit: Upgrade Difficulty by Crit severity,

Harm Crit: Upgrade Difficulty by opponents Resilience or Brawn (choose higher)

Imbue, Control & Alter:

Basic Hard Difficulty (if any reroll then the Dark effect),

Range +2 Difficulty,

Control skill sharing 2 Advantage.

Strength: no rerolls decreases Crits,

rerolls to Force Characteristic then increase Crits.

Influence, Alter:

Basic Average Difficulty and spend 1 Advantage to activate additional times,

Range +1 Difficulty (1 Advantage to activate additional times),

Magnitude +1 Difficulty (1 Advantage to activate additional times),

Control Mind Trick Opposed by targets Discipline,

Duration spend 2 Advantage,

Control Social Check same as Enhance.

Manipulate, Alter:

Basic Average Difficulty,

Strength spend 1 Advantage,

Range +1 Difficulty (1 Advantage to activate additional times),

Control Droid Heal Average Difficulty,

Control combat check 1 Advantage,

Control Mechanics Skill same as Enhance,

Mastery 2 Strain for Triumph.

Misdirect, Alter:

Basic Average Difficulty,

Range +1 Difficulty (1 Advantage to activate additional times),

Magnitude +1 Difficulty (1 Advantage to activate additional times),

Strength +2 Difficulty (2 Advantage to activate additional times),

Mastery 3 Advantage or 1 Triumph.

Move, Alter:

Basic Easy Difficulty,

Range +1 Difficultly (1 Advantage to activate multiple times),

Strength +2 Difficultly to Increase Silhouette up to ranks in Strength purchased.

Magnitude +1 Difficulty to increase targets up to ranks in Magnitude (2 Advantage per additional activation),

Control Hurl Attack becomes a Combat Check with all the usual modifiers,

Other Control upgrades the same.

Protect/Unleash, Alter and Control:

Basic Average Difficulty and suffer 2 Strain. Range +2 Difficulty (2 Advantage to active multiple times)

Strength +1 Difficulty (can be added multiple times)

Magnitude 2 Advantage.

Control Defence/Strain 1 Advantage,

Control All Damage/Ensnare +1 Setback,

Duration don’t reroll or reroll maximum.

Mastery Protect Spend Triumph,

Mastery Unleash suffer 2 Strain.

Seek, Sense:

Basic 1st option Easy Difficulty 1 Strain, 2nd option Average Difficulty with 1 Strain cost.

Magnitude: +1 Difficulty, 1 Advantage to trigger additional times

Control (Vigilance & Perception): Commit

Strength: +1 Difficulty, 1 Advantage to trigger additional times

Control Additional target: +1 Difficulty, 1 Advantage to trigger multiple times

Duration: commit

Control (Pierce): Commit

Mastery: Hard Check, suffer 2 Strain.

Sense, Sense:

Basic power: easy check for either option, two Advantage to trigger the second option

Control (Defence): Commit

Control (offence): Commit

Control (thoughts): +1 Difficulty

Range: +1 Difficulty, 1 Advantage to activate multiple times

Magnitude: +1 Difficulty, 1 Advantage to activate multiple times

Suppress, Control:

Basic: Average Difficulty, Add Threat not Failure.

Range: +1 Difficulty, 1 Advantage for further activations

Strength: +1 Difficulty, Add Threat equal to strength upgrades, can’t be activated multiple times

Duration: Commit

Control (Force Pip reduction): Commit to add Failure.

Control (Strain): If an opponent rerolls part of a Force Power roll due to drawing on the dark side they suffer Strain equal to Discipline.

Mastery: Average Difficulty, Upgraded by targets Discipline.

On 3/30/2018 at 4:58 PM, Richardbuxton said:

(This part I’m unsure of) All Force Users may flip a Destiny Point/Story Point to reroll a number of positive dice up to their Force Characteristic when using the Force Characteristic or Force Skillto make a check (ability/proficiency calculation). For each die re-rolled they suffer 1 Conflict and 1 Strain. I think it’s as tempting as using the dark Force Pips for a LS character, I just don’t know if it’s too weak (no control over S/A) or overpowered.

Hiya everyone! Long time no see!

Easy solution for using the Genesys system but still making the Dark Side attractive would be "The Force User may flip a Destiny/Story Point to gain a number of successes on the activation check equal to the number of strain and conflict received (1 success per 1 point of Strain and 1 point of Conflict). Doing so adds 1 Despair to the dice pool."

It makes succeeding when you need to a guarantee, and very, very attractive, but at the same time very, very costly. It also allows for the omen of something sinister to overshadow the success through the Despair. While the check succeeds, something terrible has begun...