Yoda's appearance as a Force Ghost struck me as a little odd, considering how much time has passed. Furthermore, I don't believe we've ever seen Force Ghosts able to whack people in the face like Yoda does with Luke. Is it possible that rather than actually returning, Yoda is a projection of Luke's memory? He doesn't do or say anything that Luke himself had not considered or should not have been able to figure out on his own, and in fact even appears to be wrong about the books being destroyed (the books are later seen on the Falcon, and while Yoda doesn't actually say they've been destroyed, he implies it). Luke is conflicted, and his conscience (or Jedi equivalent) appears to him as Yoda because Yoda to him was the very embodiment of wisdom.

I could actually buy it. Like maybe Force Ghosts aren't actually the spirit of the person they represent, but part of the person who's seeing them?

Just a completely wild guess, are you also a LEGO Ninjago fan? Because I think Ninjago has completely ruined me for inconsistencies and plot twists. At this point, I'm just like "oh, ok. Sure. Sensei's going to tell them something at the start of this season that irrevocably changes the entire Ninjago universe and completely overwrites everything I thought I knew. Cool." So Star Wars still seems remarkably consistent.

I'm not really familiar with LEGO Ninjago. Sorry.

sorry, but it is canon that the "force ghosts' are actually the preserved minds of a person. Clone Wars season 6, Episodes 11, 12, and 13 - "Voices", Destiny", and "Sacrifice", show Yoda being called to a pilgrimage of sorts by the spirit of Qui-gon Jinn. on this trip, Yoda learns a bunch about the nature of the force (such as the distinction between the 'living force' and 'cosmic force') and that how with special training and the right emotional state at death, a person can find immortality within the cosmic force, their mind preserved rather than dissipating like would normally happen.

and i suspect that Yoda didn't appear to Luke before because it took Rey to knock him out of his funk. prior to that, even a visit by Obiwan and Yoda wouldn't have helped him change his mind. (in fact, might well have reinforced it) Rey forced Luke to reexamine his conclusion, reconsider what he was doing. that caused luke to decide to destroy the books.. but also gave Yoda a chance to get through luke's thick skull. plus i suspect that Yoda destroyed the tree so that luke wouldn't notice the books were missing. because Yoda certainly would want the Jedi to continue, even if a little differently. if Luke wasn't going to do it, Rey is fine. and as long as Luke left the books alone, there was no need to intervene. luke dies of old age, the books are still there for someone to find. disembodied spirits in the force have eternity. they can afford to wait.

2 hours ago, mithril2098 said:

sorry, but it is canon that the "force ghosts' are actually the preserved minds of a person.

That's just it, though. How do we know that this appearance of Yoda is a true Force Ghost?

aside from the fact the cast, director, and writer have all talked about yoda appearing as if he was a Force Spirit?

why would they bother doing it some other way? what would be the point to adding a convoluted new thing that resembles force spirits but isn't, and then not giving hints that it isn't a force spirit? not to mention the whole "summoned lightning" thing, which is something we've seen Force entities (like the Bendu in rebels do, but i highly doubt that luke's subconscious could.

By extension, projection Luke hands the dice to Leia, which are also handled by Kylo (therefore, abandoned by Leia). But these are just manifestations of the force? When Luke fights Kylo he never touches, I assume that Kylo's blade would pass through him and the gig would be up. So why waste all of that energy/effort on making some tangible golden dice that sit on the floor while he is fighting?

Yoda hitting Luke and the dice kinda ruin the whole force ghost thing.

Luke wasn't a force ghost when he appeared at Crait though. he was using the ability to project himself. we see Yoda use this ability in Rebels in season 2, Episode 18 "Shroud of Darkness", where he appears to Ezra and then Ashoka to give advice. (and possibly to kanan and the Inquisitors, using the form of the Grand Inquisitor.. that aspect has not yet been explained, though it seems unlikely to have been the actual grand inquisitor making an appearance from the grave)

and at what point has it ever been said that Force Spirits can't interact with the physical world? Spirit Obiwan pushed vines out of the way on Degobah in RotJ, and the Spirit of qui gon Jinn was able to create breezes and lift objects in the clone Wars episode (season 6, episode 11 "voices"), despite not having properly finished the training to be a spirit (he survived, but was unable to manifest a physical form even in a place as strong in the living force as Degobah was)

Yoda is a Force Spirit, an enemy being preserving the mind and personality of what he was when he was alive within the cosmic force. what luke was doing is more like a mass force vision.. making everyone around him see something that is not there. only at a very high fidelity (to the point where he was even able to use his saber to block Ren's.. probably using force TK abilities)

and replicating the dice did have a point. those dice were Han's good luck charm, the dice that won him the falcon. even if they were a projection, it was a way for Luke to tell Leia that he grieves with her over han's death. a way to get across the emotional interchange Luke and Leia needed to have, without bogging down the story with a bunch of dialog at a time when talking would detract from the story. it is a trope that has been used in all sorts of films before. i'll admit it would have been slightly more poignant had the dice not been a projection as well (so leia would have something to help remember hand by) but that would have required luke to actually be there. as it is, the giving of the dice doubles as a way to make the viewer believe Luke is actually present, helping ot hide the various hints he was projecting, and making the reveal even more unexpected.

(and before anyone complains about yoda summoning lightning. we've seen other Force wielders that can manipulate nature.. Father, Son, and Daughter of the Mortis arc of clone wars for example. also the Force priestesses that taught Yoda the lessons for becoming a Force Spirit. (clone wars season 6 episodes 11-13) or the Bendu from rebels (which was able to summon up an entire lightning storm.. and revealed in that episode that it was not a purely physical being, being able to manifest as a storm and vanish at will.)

On 1/5/2018 at 9:29 PM, JJ48 said:

That's just it, though. How do we know that this appearance of Yoda is a true Force Ghost?

Nothing about it is diffrent than other force ghosts that have done similar things. Obi did tell Vader he would become more powerful than he could imagine if he where struck down, you didn't really think being a ghost that can't do anything bu instantly travel anywhere would be that power? Yodas master, when he visited him as a Force Ghost, threw stuff around in Yodas room.

29 minutes ago, Black Knight Leader said:

Nothing about it is diffrent than other force ghosts that have done similar things. Obi did tell Vader he would become more powerful than he could imagine if he where struck down, you didn't really think being a ghost that can't do anything bu instantly travel anywhere would be that power? Yodas master, when he visited him as a Force Ghost, threw stuff around in Yodas room.

Actually, when Obi-wan said that, I more or less figured he was speaking metaphorically of being with Luke and training him. I don't think he was saying that he, personally, was literally going to gain a bunch of power.

20 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Actually, when Obi-wan said that, I more or less figured he was speaking metaphorically of being with Luke and training him. I don't think he was saying that he, personally, was literally going to gain a bunch of power.

How would think that without seeing the later movies?