Just now, Darth Sanguis said:

Now that you mention it... yeah that makes sense.

It's scary when I make sense. Rare, but scary...

17 minutes ago, geek19 said:

I would mind. I don't mind it being more easily handled (WAB?) or wave 7 having counters for it/making it more difficult to play well, but making something unplayable because it's really good if you invest the time it takes to get good with it isn't a good plan IMO.

I said ALMOST unplayable, and that ALMOST was very intentional. You disregarded it in your post. I am not saying we remove the archetype from the game, I am saying that currently if you want to min max to have the greatest level of success against the greatest number of fleets to get the big wins and small losses you need to win big tournaments , you will be led to 134pts in squads and 2+3 because of how the mechanics of the game are balanced. I feel that distinction is important. This does not apply to Tuesday Armada night where I show up with 3 ISD's for the lols. Or store tournaments where people come to drink a coke and hang with their buds. This applies to Regionals, Nationals, and Worlds where people are traveling to show up and do well in a highly competitive environment.

Also, no one cried for the DEMsu players when that build utterly disappeared. It was imbalanced because it manipulated the way the SAME game mechanic (packing as many fleet points value of destruction into one activation set to go at the end of one turn eliminating a threat before it gets the opportunity to meaningfully contribute to the game) to the point of skewing the overarching game balance, so flotillas were introduced and the build was eradicated from the competitive landscape. Now flotillas have (unsuprisingly) created an alternative skew that utilizes the SAME mechanic only MORE EFFECTIVELY because now you don't have to waste points investing in raiders, you can simply spam 18pt flotillas. In my opinion this needs should be handled equally severely, preferably by addressing the root issue which is that an imbalanced skew attack at the end of the first engagement turn to eliminate or cripple a threat is the best way to win armada and fleets that can consistently do this without ever being exposed to significant risk (DEMsu then Rieekan Aces) are the ones that will rise to the top competitively.

I go into great length as to why I think 2+3 is mechanically the superior way to balance points in the "how to beat Rieekan" thread so I won't repeat that here.

Don't just write me off as being doom and gloom Geek, I know that you are a not a fan of suggestions to game balance right now and I am not here to rankle that nerve and have an E-Fight with you, but you must know I'm not one of those new people who just jump in and ***** and moan. I've been around the game far too long, and IMO bordered far more on the "forgiving fanboy" side than the critical side. In the end, I'll respect your opinion, you respect mine . I am definitely excited waiting on wave 7 to drop and get legs under it to see if there is a change there. However, if worlds this year sees 10 Rieekan aces players at the top tables, you better bet your sweet ginger *** they are gonna nerf that stuff out the game, just like DEMsu.

TLDR; if you are playing Armada casually this isn't an issue. I don't take 2+3 typically to casual tournaments and I don't see it all over the place. HOWEVER, I expect that unless there is a pretty dramatic change either creating a new weakness to exploit or errata to change the way the fleet functions, 2+3 will continue to become more and more prevalent at the top of premier tournaments.

1 hour ago, BrobaFett said:

I love Armada, it keeps my interest and my wife's disdain, but then again, when I get into something I typically get into it hard core. I struggle being a casual anything fan.

That said, I have come to disparage Rieekan Aces, and it has been a bit of a spoiler for me of late, as the fleets I LOVE to play are 100% hard countered by it, and now that it is common knowledge that Rieekan Aces is as close to Armada comes to being the min/max best fleet around I can't get away from it.

I am hoping and PRAYING that wave 7 has a definitive answer for this, and/or that further erratas are coming to interfere with it. I wouldn't mind seeing it hit so hard that the whole 2+3 archetype subset becomes almost unplayable.

What's the 2+3 archetype?

Sadly, Armada has definitely cooled for me. There really isn't an active community around these parts and it has become next to impossible to consistently plunk down the time to play the game - let alone the list building. Unfortunately, too, I'm the one who has the ships to supply - so, there isn't the same competitive aspect to play ... I am essentially running the learning scenario, getting the "it's neat, but let's play something else because that was long", and then having to shelve the game for another few months.

It was a little different when I first started playing, but life definitely happened.

7 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

I said ALMOST unplayable, and that ALMOST was very intentional. You disregarded it in your post. I am not saying we remove the archetype from the game, I am saying that currently if you want to min max to have the greatest level of success against the greatest number of fleets to get the big wins and small losses you need to win big tournaments , you will be led to 134pts in squads and 2+3 because of how the mechanics of the game are balanced. I feel that distinction is important. This does not apply to Tuesday Armada night where I show up with 3 ISD's for the lols. Or store tournaments where people come to drink a coke and hang with their buds. This applies to Regionals, Nationals, and Worlds where people are traveling to show up and do well in a highly competitive environment.

Also, no one cried for the DEMsu players when that build utterly disappeared. It was imbalanced because it manipulated the way the SAME game mechanic (packing as many fleet points value of destruction into one activation set to go at the end of one turn eliminating a threat before it gets the opportunity to meaningfully contribute to the game) to the point of skewing the overarching game balance, so flotillas were introduced and the build was eradicated from the competitive landscape. Now flotillas have (unsuprisingly) created an alternative skew that utilizes the SAME mechanic only MORE EFFECTIVELY because now you don't have to waste points investing in raiders, you can simply spam 18pt flotillas. In my opinion this needs should be handled equally severely, preferably by addressing the root issue which is that an imbalanced skew attack at the end of the first engagement turn to eliminate or cripple a threat is the best way to win armada and fleets that can consistently do this without ever being exposed to significant risk (DEMsu then Rieekan Aces) are the ones that will rise to the top competitively.

I go into great length as to why I think 2+3 is mechanically the superior way to balance points in the "how to beat Rieekan" thread so I won't repeat that here.

Don't just write me off as being doom and gloom Geek, I know that you are a not a fan of suggestions to game balance right now and I am not here to rankle that nerve and have an E-Fight with you, but you must know I'm not one of those new people who just jump in and ***** and moan. I've been around the game far too long, and IMO bordered far more on the "forgiving fanboy" side than the critical side. In the end, I'll respect your opinion, you respect mine . I am definitely excited waiting on wave 7 to drop and get legs under it to see if there is a change there. However, if worlds this year sees 10 Rieekan aces players at the top tables, you better bet your sweet ginger *** they are gonna nerf that stuff out the game, just like DEMsu.

TLDR; if you are playing Armada casually this isn't an issue. I don't take 2+3 typically to casual tournaments and I don't see it all over the place. HOWEVER, I expect that unless there is a pretty dramatic change either creating a new weakness to exploit or errata to change the way the fleet functions, 2+3 will continue to become more and more prevalent at the top of premier tournaments.

I will agree to most of your points, and I'll also admit to missing the almost.

Not intending to start a fight, either, here, just stating my points below. If you want to continue discussing this, I'm fine doing so and ain't mad/intending to get into a peeing match with you.

My disagreement with your counter to my counter (aka the above) is that I still see DeMSU taken, so it's not gone. It is harder, with flotillas, yes, I fully agree, and that IS MY misunderstanding of your initial point (I will admit to missing that). I think a lot of my statement (the one you quoted) is coming from me getting caught in an echo chamber, but the 2+3 while seen in some of the Regionals is only there 6 times (if I'm remembering Baltanoks data correctly). That's THERE, and it might all be hiding in Canada, waiting for their Regional to show, but I haven't seen it as prevalent as it could be.

I do agree with your statements about a) nerfing it again if it shows up en masse to World's (the rumored "flotillas don't count for tabling," maybe?) and b) Armada wins happen by getting the first strike. I'd be all for the nerf then. My concern and my misunderstanding of your statement was that I had thought you meant that it should be removed from the scene entirely because it seems unbeatable (it's a very good list, not disputing that), and that's what I ran into issue with, so my apologies for misunderstanding you.

Most importantly, though, I'm not a ginger.

1 minute ago, geek19 said:

Most importantly, though, I'm not a ginger.

This is the most important issue, and now that we have that cleared up, we can both go back to enjoying Armada

40 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Most importantly, though, I'm not a ginger.

Just because we weren't born without souls all you normie-hairs think you're better than us?!? I mean, you are, but you shouldn't just assume that!

Just wait until me and all the other gingers unite. We will rise up and consume all souls, spreading pastiness and freckles throughout the land...

11 minutes ago, IronNerd said:

Just because we weren't born without souls all you normie-hairs think you're better than us?!? I mean, you are, but you shouldn't just assume that!

Just wait until me and all the other gingers unite. We will rise up and consume all souls, spreading pastiness and freckles throughout the land...

Except Australia.

You won’t survive there easily.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

Except Australia.

You won’t survive there easily.

I spent a semester in Melbourne and everything went fine. Surprisingly, I don't even remember ever getting a sunburn Down Under. Perhaps all the alcohol I consumed had some sort of protective effect. Oh, to be 20 again...

Back on topic, I bought into armada right after it launched with a core set and eventually a couple mc30s, but I couldn't find anyone to play against and they were quickly shelved. It wasn't until early last summer I started playing and my excitement to play has been pretty high the last few weeks but with stress from work and everything this week I'm having a hard time staying hyped for a store tournament coming up, even with the profundity preview that we just saw.

Stop complaining about 2+3 and start ramming

5 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Except Australia.

You won’t survive there easily.

Good old SPF 10,000. Comes with extra lead shielding.

On 1/4/2018 at 9:00 PM, Cubanboy said:

So Its friday good friends of the internet and that means its time for a question.

Do you still like Armada as much as when you started?

Good thread! In fact, I like it more. I started to lose inteest in the long wait between Waves 6 and 7, and my meta made Rebels harsh to play against Sloane swarms.

Coming up with new builds and ways to try and beat BTAvenger or Sloane Shenanigans as Rebels is enjoyable for me, as much as it sucks to play against them.

Wave 7 is looking like it might add some great stuff to the game.

On 5.1.2018 at 3:00 AM, Cubanboy said:

Do you still like Armada as much as when you started?

I love this question. Your best so far, IMO. It made me think. A lot. Armada takes a lot bigger part of my life than initially. However, I have to confess that it has lost a lot of its magic it used to have. The most interesting aspect is why that is the case. At the moment, playing Armada takes quite often place for me in a competitve environment. And there every decision needs to have highly calculated precision. That takes away some of its initial splendor. One sees a lot of game components too often. Especially the missions where merely a handfull is of use to counter the first player bias. However, if I play fun casual games all the splendor returns.

Thanks for your question. I need to fly more casual games!