It seems to me that in the other FFG miniatures games I have played Luke and Vader we're developed very early and ended up falling by the wayside.

For such iconic characters I would like to them remain powerful for as long as possible. Does anyone else fear that Luke and Vader will end up in the under powered never played bin?

Maybe. The cost of them seems like a bigger factor than underpowered at this stage.

They skipped episodes 1-3 in the films to get right to them. ?

There will probably be alternate versions of Luke and Vader later on, like Luke in his black clothing and green saber, Vader in a different pose with new cards. Not so soon though.

I have thought about this some myself. TL;DR- While its certainly possible that they will eventually become seldom-played, I don't think that will happen for quite some time. At the very least they should have an important niche in the game.

Like @Ralgon mentioned, the biggest obstacle to them seeing play is probably their cost rather than their power level. Even so I think there's a few factors that will help them see more play in Legion that aren't present in other FFG Star Wars miniature games.

1) Both Luke and Vader are commander units. Since you are required to have 1 or 2 commanders in your army, I expect Luke and Vader will consistently see play until there's a significant variety of other options for that role.

2) They are both powerful force users, which makes them special even among commanders. For instance, how many Rebel commanders do we expect to see before there's another one with at least 2 force upgrade slots, a monstrous melee lightsaber attack, and Deflect? I wouldn't be surprised to see Leia, Han, Lando, General Rieekan, Jyn Erso, Cassian Andor, etc. before Luke has any competition in that regard.

3) While they are both costly, they both appear to have some outstanding stats. Most importantly, they are very durable for trooper units and have good courage values. So long as no other Imperial commanders show up with a null value for courage, Vader will always be relevant because any friendly troopers near him will never panic. With Luke it will take at least 7 suppression tokens for nearby friendly troopers to panic, and I expect in most cases the unit will be destroyed before then.

4) I also agree with @Rammstein117, in the case of Luke there's a good chance of an alternate "Return of the Jedi" version, and eventually maybe even a "The Last Jedi" version as well. I sort of doubt there will be another version of Vader, but any new force upgrades (that would come with Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight, for instance) could revitalize Vader if he isn't seeing much play at that point.

Wow, I didn't really expect to write that much... but with all that being said I do think it's a legitimate concern.

I think they may have set a bar with Luke and Vader as the relative top of the Commander category. They have lots of room to fill in with cheaper commanders that may not have powerful direct attacks but offer interesting tactical options

Yeah. Don’t worry they with build or patch in other products to make them viable. Like they have done with Vader in all their games.

26 minutes ago, TylerTT said:

Yeah. Don’t worry they with build or patch in other products to make them viable. Like they have done with Vader in all their games.

You clearly have not played Armada

7 minutes ago, Tirion said:

You clearly have not played Armada

Given the snails pace armarda releases, this isn't surprising. Heck the vsd fix isn't quite out yet is it? Maybe another 3 waves or so.

Edit: to expand on my point though, vader feels right, rather cool, and i can see reasons why he may always be a consideration ( unbreakale bubble, free force actions, real synergy with snowtroopers as a mobile force).

The issue is what can you do with the 100+ points you save by using veers?

In an army that's already "the pricey one"...... a lot

2 hours ago, Ralgon said:

Maybe. The cost of them seems like a bigger factor than underpowered at this stage.

Not enough effect for cost is the same thing as underpowered in my book. That is really what Vader has struggled with in the other games I have played. He is not bad just not worth it.

When I started this thread I didn't realize his base point value is 1/4 of your points. I think that will see him replaced pretty quick.

I hope your right about him having enough utility to make him always a decent option.

I'm no competitive player by any stretch, so for me I'd wanna play Luke or Vader just for the fun of it. If they suck or they aren't worth it, it'll still be fun to have some force users running around chopping stuff up with a lightsaber

I'll wait to judge their value until I see them on the tabletop. They look good on paper though.

2 hours ago, Ralgon said:

Given the snails pace armarda releases, this isn't surprising. Heck the vsd fix isn't quite out yet is it? Maybe another 3 waves or so.

Edit: to expand on my point though, vader feels right, rather cool, and i can see reasons why he may always be a consideration ( unbreakale bubble, free force actions, real synergy with snowtroopers as a mobile force).

The issue is what can you do with the 100+ points you save by using veers?

In an army that's already "the pricey one"...... a lot

Vsd has been fixed but yeah we are the red headed step child of ffg

Yes, due to power creep these guys will eventually suck. Then everyone will complain about how badly they suck. They will eventually get a fix, and due to power creep, everything else will suck but them, until the next few things come out, then due to power creep, they will suck once again..... and the cycle goes on.

1 hour ago, NukeMaster said:

Not enough effect for cost is the same thing as underpowered in my book. That is really what Vader has struggled with in the other games I have played. He is not bad just not worth it.

When I started this thread I didn't realize his base point value is 1/4 of your points. I think that will see him replaced pretty quick.

I hope your right about him having enough utility to make him always a decent option.

i never said that. As we learn more and have the new units and rules revealed vader gets more and more dangerous ( if somewhat difficult to get the most out of due to his mobility). But as many posters will point out, this is a shaping up to be a game of tactics and objectives which leaves the rest of vaders forces in a bind to balance cost vs offense vs effective objective achievers.

Now consider that if vader gets taken the rebs get roughly a free trooper unit of spare points ........

Luke came out in the core set for armada. Hes still relevant

My concern is we will see Luke and Vader done to death before we get many other options.

Also, as a first for FFG, Vader and luke models are not coming out as separate expansions straight away. That then gives the option to "patch" later with updated models/stats/upgrades/commands

6 minutes ago, Funk Fu master said:

Also, as a first for FFG, Vader and luke models are not coming out as separate expansions straight away. That then gives the option to "patch" later with updated models/stats/upgrades/commands

This is true though I hope that power creep does not become the standard in this game and in the end every battle is run with obscure characters and units that make the battle not even look star wars.

Luke is the ESB version, so I fully expect to see a RotJ version which is on Vader's power level. And as was already mentioned, Vader and Luke will be the most powerful melee units with force powers in the game. It's hard to imagine any other commander making it into the game that rivals them in that regard bar perhaps Obi-Wan and the Emperor if they turn those into commanders.

Once they eventually expand into the expanded universe things will change, with Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade and Joruus C'baoth all being potent force users, though I suspect Vader & Luke will be the upper bar in melee effectiveness.

I think that they will be relevant. The point system, upgrade system (force power, equipment) means that there is room for TONS of variety in this game. Also, the little info we have so far suggests they are being cautious with upgrades. Look at Stormtroopers versus Snowtroopers. Both play a little differently, but are effectively sidegrades.

I also think that as long as the two sides are exclusively Empire and Rebels, the only other Lightsaber wielders we will see would be Ahsoka and Kanan for Light Side, and the Grand Inquisitor for Dark Side. That allows Luke and Vader to always fill a niche. Other commanders will be cheaper, but likely have much different abilities and no where near as powerful melee. Luke and Vader will always have a niche I believe, it will just be a matter of whether or not their niche is OP / UP in any particular meta.

I share the concern. There is significant power creep in X-Wing and Armada. If you look at what wins X-Wing tourneys these day, you can barely recognize it is Star Wars. The more they scrape the barrel, the more powerful the new and obscure units get.

1 hour ago, Rumar said:

I share the concern. There is significant power creep in X-Wing and Armada. If you look at what wins X-Wing tourneys these day, you can barely recognize it is Star Wars. The more they scrape the barrel, the more powerful the new and obscure units get.

And yet they still try to add value to older units (see flight assist astro, trajectory simulator, the new ghost titles, and advanced optics just off the top of my head in the current wave of xwing)

Unfortunately it really shows the main weakness of FFGs game model. Most companies would just issue an erratic/update to bring stuff back in line, but FFG are absolutely committed to their “fix via cards”system.

Personally I hate it, and that’s by far my biggest gripe with 5eir games and why (IMO) they are all terrible for balanced, competitive play. I love them for thematic and fun reasons though.

Hopefully they have learnt from their repeated errors, but probably not since they have made them quite consistently now.

4 hours ago, Funk Fu master said:

Also, as a first for FFG, Vader and luke models are not coming out as separate expansions straight away. That then gives the option to "patch" later with updated models/stats/upgrades/commands

Ummmmmm again I say you must not play Armada.