https://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/01/mc75-hot-takes.html
Hot, fishy takes on the MC75.
Cannot Get Your Ship Out! January Articles
I quite like Wide-Area Barrage. Cheap and fun upgrades provide great opportunities in games like these. Like Terror Bombing Sato always into that darn Collateral Damage.
http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/01/fighting-fleets-annulling-avenger.html
Fighting Fleets: Annulling Avenger Boarding Troopers
There's a bit of a boogeyman haunting certain communities nowadays and it takes the form of an
Avenger
Boarding Troopers
ISD
(hereafter referred to by its much-shortened online initialization, ABT). Let's have a short talk about that and what you can do about it.
How does an
Avenger
Boarding Troopers fleet work?
The Avenger ISD (usually an ISD-I) is the star of the fleet and it generally works like this:
Strategic tools against ABT
Objectives
Specifically, any objective that forces your opponent to deploy before you, meaning Superior Positions or Solar Corona , is a no-go for a lot of ABT fleets, because it allows you to see where ABT is and set its ideal prey up far away from it. ABT really wants to find an ideal target to pound on or else it's not very cost-effective and this kind of deployment advantage can really hinder it from achieving that.
Most Wanted is helpful against ABT in that it increases the odds of the rest of your fleet being able to destroy it, which produces a huge windfall of points that more than makes up for whatever it destroyed earlier.
Beware defensive objectives like Contested Outpost that telegraph where your biggest beefiest ships intend to be for most of the game, as it gives ABT a much easier time figuring out where its next meal is likely to be.
Flotillas
Flotillas of your own offer two things that help against ABT: they increase your own activation count and they are ideal speed bumps to throw between ABT and where it wants to go. We'll talk about that a bit more later.
Lots of small ships
If you are running a more conventional swarm fleet, ABT doesn't really have any ideal targets - almost anything it would have gotten a close-range double-arc on anyways would be dead regardless of the ABT combo, and it's difficult for the ABT to have a single big-points turn when there aren't easily-caught juicy targets available for it. These types of fleets are also likely to equal or exceed the activation count available to the ABT fleet.
Heavy bombers
Provided your fleet is designed to bring serious bomber damage against enemy ships and has some means of ignoring/destroying the ABT fleet's light fighter screen, you can get a lot of damage in on the ABT so long as you can keep your clutch carrier(s) safe from being deleted. Yavaris in particular can double-tap B-Wings to get in a considerable amount of pain in a single activation.
Dice control/mitigation
ABT's crucial attack run is looking to set up as much raw damage it can, frequently through dice modification and/or reroll effects (most often Leading Shots , but sometimes other things as well). Against heavier ships, it's often a very close thing as to whether ABT can produce enough damage to come away clean. This leave it very susceptible to effects that remove or reroll dice after the attack has arranged his attack pool just so. Rebels generally have access to more of these kinds of shenanigans through upgrades like Admonition , Mon Mothma , and Lando (especially Lando - Rebels in ABT-rich metas have no real excuse against using Lando on their biggest ship; he's already a great officer, but he really puts the screws to ABT and can go on any ship), but Imperials can see how the other half lives with the Interdictor's Targeting Scrambler . Regardless, the goal is to find the highest damage dice (double-hit reds, hit+crit blacks) and remove or reroll them however possible to swing the damage from "sucker punch KO" to "back alley brawl," where ABT finds itself on much less comfortable ground.
Hull buffing
Specifically Admiral Motti . Anything that adds more points between you and death will put you in good stead against ABT. Tricks with defense tokens won't hold up (sorry, Electronic Countermeasures and Advanced Projectors ), but straight-up hull or shield buffs will, and I'm sure over time we'll see more of those types of upgrades even if for now it's just Motti.
Revenge of the living dead
Just like any tactic that counts on destroying an enemy before they can do anything, (even post-nerf) Rieekan throws a big ol' monkey wrench into everything. BTA does not want to get stuck on a zombie ship when it would've rather been comfortably sailing away through space debris.
Tactical considerations against ABT
With adequate strategic tools, you don't necessarily need to do anything substantively different against ABT than you would against any other large ship that's out for blood . Regardless, there are a few tricks to keep in mind.
Deployment considerations
If you out-deploy the ABT fleet, that's good news. ABT will be waiting to deploy last so it can deploy across from its preferred target and you can keep that target safely off the board until ABT is committed to its deployment position.
If you don't out-deploy the ABT fleet, then you need a plan for what its ideal target is going to do, knowing ABT is waiting it out. What the "right" thing to do is will be very context-dependent, but in general, the wrong thing to do is start that ship at the deployment line facing forward at maximum speed. That's effectively racing into a blender. Ideally, your target ship should be deployed so as to give some flexibility to its destination later in the game (often at something of an angle) so ABT has a hard time predicting exactly where to intercept it and may require another turn of jostling for position to finally reach it. It can also help to deploy it behind intervening smaller ships which will later act as speed bumps (next point below).
Speed bumps
Setting ABT back by one round can often be enough to stop it from reaching its prey altogether, provided the prey was able to run away from it or jump past it in the meantime. This not infrequently requires sacrifice, and the easiest sacrifice is a flotilla. Let's provide an example:
Here the Rebel player has ended his activations near ABT, with his
GR-75
running interference for the HMC80. ABT lobs some ineffective red dice at the flotilla and would then
love
to set up a double-arc on the HMC80:
...but there simply isn't room. The ISD overlaps the GR-75 and withdraws...
leaving the HMC80 in a much safer position, and reasonably capable of escaping death altogether, especially with some good use of
Engine Techs
next round to sneak around the side and give ABT the slip altogether. The poor GR-75 is doomed, but that's a much better trade than the alternative of a thoroughly dead HMC80.
Final thoughts
As always with our fighting fleets articles, hopefully this has provided some food for thought and helps someone in a meta that is feeling the heat from what we've discussed. If you have any questions, let me know!
|
| Obvious combo is obvious, but also pretty mean. |
The Avenger ISD (usually an ISD-I) is the star of the fleet and it generally works like this:
- ABT activates late in the round (preferably last) and comes zooming in at its preferred target at close range, preferably setting up a double-arc attack on it.
- ABT activates early in the next round (preferably first), spends a squadron token to use Boarding Troopers, taps out all its prey's defense tokens, and lets rip with both arcs (preferably with a concentrate fire).
-
In most cases its prey is then dead. Without any special tricks to save them, this will destroy most ships, but heavier ships (like
HMC80s
, front arcs of
LMC80s
, and particularly other ISDs, sometimes even a
VSD
) can survive if the dice weren't generous enough. If the prey is brought down to 1 hull, a
timely ram
will finish it off.
- The ABT then decides if it wants to come around and start harassing other ships or if it's satisfied with a large meal and wishes to step on the gas to get away before the remaining enemy fleet can destroy it in turn.
- A very large bid . The ABT really wants to go first so it can smash its prey first thing and avoid retribution or having squirmier quarry flee before they're caught. So far this year there have been some ABT fleets at Regionals with bids in the mid-twenties , which I personally find to be near-insane. However, when two ABT fleets go up against one another, all other things being equal, the one with the higher bid is likeliest to win (due to their ABT jumping and destroying the other ABT).
-
Numerous activations
. Usually 5-6, but sometimes as low as 4. The fleet wants to have ABT go last if it can, so you can't wait it out with its preferred prey.
-
Other ships present will typically be less-expensive combat and support vessels, like
Raiders
,
Arquitens
, or
Gozantis
. Gozantis in particular are usually fielded at least twice, as they're the cheapest activation padding Imperials can buy.
- You may also see one Demolisher Gladiator in fleets that are comfortable going with only 4 or 5 activations. This approach sacrifices activation quantity in favor of having another immediate threat in the form of a usually fairly barebones Demolisher that still presents a credible threat to lighter craft and can help finish off a heavier ship the ABT didn't quite destroy earlier.
-
Other ships present will typically be less-expensive combat and support vessels, like
Raiders
,
Arquitens
, or
Gozantis
. Gozantis in particular are usually fielded at least twice, as they're the cheapest activation padding Imperials can buy.
- Light squadrons . Sometimes no squadrons. The squadron game is not the ABT fleet's strong suit because it's playing the activation and ship combat elements of the game so hard; those points need to come from somewhere.
Strategic tools against ABT
Objectives
Specifically, any objective that forces your opponent to deploy before you, meaning Superior Positions or Solar Corona , is a no-go for a lot of ABT fleets, because it allows you to see where ABT is and set its ideal prey up far away from it. ABT really wants to find an ideal target to pound on or else it's not very cost-effective and this kind of deployment advantage can really hinder it from achieving that.
Most Wanted is helpful against ABT in that it increases the odds of the rest of your fleet being able to destroy it, which produces a huge windfall of points that more than makes up for whatever it destroyed earlier.
Beware defensive objectives like Contested Outpost that telegraph where your biggest beefiest ships intend to be for most of the game, as it gives ABT a much easier time figuring out where its next meal is likely to be.
Flotillas
Flotillas of your own offer two things that help against ABT: they increase your own activation count and they are ideal speed bumps to throw between ABT and where it wants to go. We'll talk about that a bit more later.
Lots of small ships
If you are running a more conventional swarm fleet, ABT doesn't really have any ideal targets - almost anything it would have gotten a close-range double-arc on anyways would be dead regardless of the ABT combo, and it's difficult for the ABT to have a single big-points turn when there aren't easily-caught juicy targets available for it. These types of fleets are also likely to equal or exceed the activation count available to the ABT fleet.
Heavy bombers
Provided your fleet is designed to bring serious bomber damage against enemy ships and has some means of ignoring/destroying the ABT fleet's light fighter screen, you can get a lot of damage in on the ABT so long as you can keep your clutch carrier(s) safe from being deleted. Yavaris in particular can double-tap B-Wings to get in a considerable amount of pain in a single activation.
Dice control/mitigation
ABT's crucial attack run is looking to set up as much raw damage it can, frequently through dice modification and/or reroll effects (most often Leading Shots , but sometimes other things as well). Against heavier ships, it's often a very close thing as to whether ABT can produce enough damage to come away clean. This leave it very susceptible to effects that remove or reroll dice after the attack has arranged his attack pool just so. Rebels generally have access to more of these kinds of shenanigans through upgrades like Admonition , Mon Mothma , and Lando (especially Lando - Rebels in ABT-rich metas have no real excuse against using Lando on their biggest ship; he's already a great officer, but he really puts the screws to ABT and can go on any ship), but Imperials can see how the other half lives with the Interdictor's Targeting Scrambler . Regardless, the goal is to find the highest damage dice (double-hit reds, hit+crit blacks) and remove or reroll them however possible to swing the damage from "sucker punch KO" to "back alley brawl," where ABT finds itself on much less comfortable ground.
Hull buffing
Specifically Admiral Motti . Anything that adds more points between you and death will put you in good stead against ABT. Tricks with defense tokens won't hold up (sorry, Electronic Countermeasures and Advanced Projectors ), but straight-up hull or shield buffs will, and I'm sure over time we'll see more of those types of upgrades even if for now it's just Motti.
Revenge of the living dead
Just like any tactic that counts on destroying an enemy before they can do anything, (even post-nerf) Rieekan throws a big ol' monkey wrench into everything. BTA does not want to get stuck on a zombie ship when it would've rather been comfortably sailing away through space debris.
Tactical considerations against ABT
With adequate strategic tools, you don't necessarily need to do anything substantively different against ABT than you would against any other large ship that's out for blood . Regardless, there are a few tricks to keep in mind.
Deployment considerations
If you out-deploy the ABT fleet, that's good news. ABT will be waiting to deploy last so it can deploy across from its preferred target and you can keep that target safely off the board until ABT is committed to its deployment position.
If you don't out-deploy the ABT fleet, then you need a plan for what its ideal target is going to do, knowing ABT is waiting it out. What the "right" thing to do is will be very context-dependent, but in general, the wrong thing to do is start that ship at the deployment line facing forward at maximum speed. That's effectively racing into a blender. Ideally, your target ship should be deployed so as to give some flexibility to its destination later in the game (often at something of an angle) so ABT has a hard time predicting exactly where to intercept it and may require another turn of jostling for position to finally reach it. It can also help to deploy it behind intervening smaller ships which will later act as speed bumps (next point below).
Speed bumps
Setting ABT back by one round can often be enough to stop it from reaching its prey altogether, provided the prey was able to run away from it or jump past it in the meantime. This not infrequently requires sacrifice, and the easiest sacrifice is a flotilla. Let's provide an example:
|
| The slippery fish nobly flops away! |
As always with our fighting fleets articles, hopefully this has provided some food for thought and helps someone in a meta that is feeling the heat from what we've discussed. If you have any questions, let me know!
Had a lot of fun with BTA right after the card was spoiled (Vassal), but it became very clear, very quickly that it's a one-trick pony.
And not only is it a on-trick pony - it needs to be at close range to do the trick.
Also no Gunnery Teams.
So while certainly powerful, it's also far too limited IMO.
So great writeup.
Thank you for a great article, very thoughtful and well-written as usual.
Not to be "that guy," but couldn't BTAvenger have tried turning to the flotilla's right in that example, to get in front of the HMC80?
1 minute ago, The Jabbawookie said:Thank you for a great article, very thoughtful and well-written as usual.
It could certainly try, although it was already pointed slightly to its left, so the end positioning would make it easy for the HMC80 to position itself in only a single arc and also usually with obstruction (from the flotilla). The resulting attack would be sufficient to cause problems for the HMC80, but it would still be able to limp away.
I freely admit the example is fairly simple and straightforward, but the basic premise still will usually work when done well.
20 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:Thank you for a great article, very thoughtful and well-written as usual.
Added:
I'll add that it would be smarter for the ABT, realizing it won't get its attack run in by going to our left to position itself to our right to try to catch the HMC80 in its front arc at the bottom of the next turn. That would likely succeed, but the HMC80 would be able to position itself to only be in one arc and the ABT would be unable to subsequently set up a double arc. The end result would be a front arc at the bottom of the next turn (likely at medium range) followed by another front arc likely at the top of the following turn, only one of which benefits from Avenger and Boarding Troopers (likely the second attack at close range). That's intimidating, but not likely to destroy the HMC80, which can then make a getaway into/past the side arcs of the ABT.
No need to be picky about it as the concept doesnt change. A single yaw at right at the first two notches and a single yaw left at the third with a nav token dodges the flotilla and catches a double close range arc.
Flotilla makes it harder. Navigation dials are powerful. Practice makes perfect.
Similarly I can find a spot for the flotilla that is unbeatable except by Jerrod power.
I just use Konstantine to keep them at long range while I stay at 0.
Ion cannon batteries brah
4 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:Ion cannon batteries brah
It’s Weird having someone other than me championing them for once...
1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:Ion cannon batteries brah
Main issue I have with that is it's not common to get a medium-close range shot on BTA prior to it jumping its prey and by then it's too late.
Also, lists that are
dedicated
to getting the trick off will have Hondo, who can always supply the token prior to the activation.
Disposable capacitors brah
3 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:Disposable capacitors brah
Perhaps, but I don't think I've ever seen an ABT fleet that lacks a Comms Net Gozanti and/or Hondo to replace a zapped squadron token from a Hail-Mary pass of an ion cannon upgrade.
Showing the opponent a bra, brah
Great articles as always. PS, JJ would have had that mc80 dead to rights ha ha
3 hours ago, geek19 said:Showing the opponent a bra, brah
It looks nice but kind of uncomfortable, brah
18 minutes ago, Snipafist said:
It looks nice but kind of uncomfortable, brah
That bra killed Carrie Fisher. Harshing my mellow, brah!
22 minutes ago, geek19 said:That bra killed Carrie Fisher. Harshing my mellow, brah!
I thought that bra killed Jabbra.
7 hours ago, Alzer said:I thought that bra killed Jabbra.
A chain killed Jabba, Carrie Fisher wanted it reported she was strangled by her own bra .
Very nice article. While harder to do a ABT player could still succeed at 2nd player if they have last activation and force incomping ships into a particular area via objectives. You use ABT as a big area denial tool.
Alright, its been a bit, but I wrote a thing! Because I apparently hate @Ardaedhel and myself, how to fight Admonition:
http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/01/fighting-fleets-admonishing-admonition.html
29 minutes ago, geek19 said:Alright, its been a bit, but I wrote a thing! Because I apparently hate @Ardaedhel and myself, how to fight Admonition:
http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/01/fighting-fleets-admonishing-admonition.html
This is everything in one list: Admontion loves abusing its shields and tokens. Ram the fecker and shoot with luke multiple times. Why waste time on shields?
Luke, I am your father
Author:
Ginkapo
Faction:
Rebel Alliance
Points:
381/400
Commander: General Dodonna
Assault Objective:
Precision Strike
Defense Objective:
Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective:
Sensor Net
GR-75 Medium Transports
(18 points)
-
Bright Hope
( 2 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
=
35
total ship cost
GR-75 Combat Retrofits
(24 points)
- Hondo Ohnaka ( 2 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
=
28
total ship cost
CR90 Corvette B
(39 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
=
52
total ship cost
[ flagship ]
Modified Pelta-class Command Ship
(60 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
-
Phoenix Home
( 3 points)
- Flight Commander ( 3 points)
- Adar Tallon ( 10 points)
- Fighter Coordination Team ( 3 points)
- All Fighters, Follow Me! ( 5 points)
=
104
total ship cost
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette
(36 points)
-
Garel's Honor
( 4 points)
=
40
total ship cost
3
VCX-100 Freighters
( 45 points)
2
YT-1300s
( 26 points)
1
Biggs Darklighter
( 19 points)
1
HWK-290
( 12 points)
1
Luke Skywalker
( 20 points)
Card view link
Just now, Ginkapo said:This is everything in one list: Admontion loves abusing its shields and tokens. Ram the fecker and shoot with luke multiple times. Why waste time on shields?
Luke, I am your father
Author: GinkapoFaction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 381/400Commander: General Dodonna
Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Sensor Net
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 35 total ship cost
GR-75 Combat Retrofits (24 points)
- Hondo Ohnaka ( 2 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 28 total ship cost
CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
= 52 total ship cost
[ flagship ] Modified Pelta-class Command Ship (60 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Phoenix Home ( 3 points)
- Flight Commander ( 3 points)
- Adar Tallon ( 10 points)
- Fighter Coordination Team ( 3 points)
- All Fighters, Follow Me! ( 5 points)
= 104 total ship cost
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
- Garel's Honor ( 4 points)
= 40 total ship cost
3 VCX-100 Freighters ( 45 points)
2 YT-1300s ( 26 points)
1 Biggs Darklighter ( 19 points)
1 HWK-290 ( 12 points)
1 Luke Skywalker ( 20 points)Card view link
There's a not insignificant part of me that wants to try this list out.... Unfortunately I'm pot-committed to the list I'm bringing to Indianapolis Saturday right now, but NEXT week? Hmmmmm
Fun and informative article. Thanks!
P.S. - 2 attacks from turns 2-5 is 8 attacks total, not 10.