Looking at the wording of Harpoon Missiles and such is making me wonder about the actual way that the word "destroyed" is used in the game. Per the Rules Reference Guide :

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DESTROYING SHIPS

A ship is destroyed when it has a number of Damage cards equal to its hull value or when it flees the battlefield. When a ship is destroyed, remove it from the play area, discard all of its Damage cards, and return all of its tokens to the supply.

• If the Simultaneous Attack Rule delays a ship’s destruction, it is instead destroyed after it has had its opportunity to attack this round.
• The “Direct Hit!” Damage card counts as two Damage cards for the purpose of determining if a ship is destroyed.

To that end, it seems that under the Simultaneous Attack Rule, even if a ship would be killed with a harpoon missile, it wouldn't be officially "destroyed" until it had a chance to shoot back... which means it could still deal that extra point of splash damage after the fact, IF the Simultaneous Attack Rule were in effect. For example:

1. Quickdraw and Dengar are nose-to-nose at Range 2, with no pilot skill modifiers. The Imperial player has initiative. Quickdraw has one shield and 3 hull remaining, and has the Harpooned condition card. Dengar has only 3 hull.
2. Quickdraw fires a Harpoon Missile at Dengar's front arc, and lands enough damage to kill him. After dealing damage, instead of removing Dengar, he is left in play, and Quickdraw assigns a Harpooned condition card.
3. Dengar fires his revenge shot, forcing Quickdraw to spend all of his tokens on defense.
4. Dengar fires his primary shot at Quickdraw, and lands 2 hits and a Crit, when Quickdraw completely whiffs on defense.
   1. The crit causes Quickdraw's Harpooned to resolve first, stripping his last shield, then gets discarded.
   2. Quickdraw suffers 3 damage (one face up), exceeding his total hull value.
   3. Having attacked, Dengar's turn ends, and he is officially "destroyed", triggering his Harpooned card to anyone within Range 1.
5. Quickdraw, having lost a shield, makes one final revenge shot against anyone he can, then is himself "destroyed."
6. The game proceeds, both ships having shuffled off this mortal coil into the depths of oblivion.

...wow, that got dark at the end there...

Anyway, point is, it seems like "destroyed" only happens when a ship is actually REMOVED, meaning you could conceivably pile on extra Harpoons if (and only if) a ship would be forced to stick around thanks to the Simultaneous Attack Rule... then watch them all go off like the Fourth of July.

Groovy.

7 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Looking at the wording of Harpoon Missiles and such is making me wonder about the actual way that the word "destroyed" is used in the game. Per the Rules Reference Guide :

To that end, it seems that under the Simultaneous Attack Rule, even if a ship would be killed with a harpoon missile, it wouldn't be officially "destroyed" until it had a chance to shoot back... which means it could still deal that extra point of splash damage after the fact, IF the Simultaneous Attack Rule were in effect. For example:

1. Quickdraw and Dengar are nose-to-nose at Range 2, with no pilot skill modifiers. The Imperial player has initiative. Quickdraw has one shield and 3 hull remaining, and has the Harpooned condition card. Dengar has only 3 hull.
2. Quickdraw fires a Harpoon Missile at Dengar's front arc, and lands enough damage to kill him. After dealing damage, instead of removing Dengar, he is left in play, and Quickdraw assigns a Harpooned condition card.
3. Dengar fires his revenge shot, forcing Quickdraw to spend all of his tokens on defense.
4. Dengar fires his primary shot at Quickdraw, and lands 2 hits and a Crit, when Quickdraw completely whiffs on defense.
   1. The crit causes Quickdraw's Harpooned to resolve first, stripping his last shield, then gets discarded.
   2. Quickdraw suffers 3 damage (one face up), exceeding his total hull value.
   3. Having attacked, Dengar's turn ends, and he is officially "destroyed", triggering his Harpooned card to anyone within Range 1.
5. Quickdraw, having lost a shield, makes one final revenge shot against anyone he can, then is himself "destroyed."
6. The game proceeds, both ships having shuffled off this mortal coil into the depths of oblivion.

...wow, that got dark at the end there...

Anyway, point is, it seems like "destroyed" only happens when a ship is actually REMOVED, meaning you could conceivably pile on extra Harpoons if (and only if) a ship would be forced to stick around thanks to the Simultaneous Attack Rule... then watch them all go off like the Fourth of July.

Groovy.

Possibly, if you wanted to waste all the potential damage the missile does for the aoe. We still need to see when this "fully resovled" malarkey happens, which at this point needs clarification.

You need to look at the attack timing chart to get a clear picture of this. A ship is destroyed in step 7 but isn't removed until step 10. Dengar is destroyed as soon as his damage cards equal or exceed his hull not allowing any additional harpoons to trigger that may stack on him as the destroyed trigger has already happened. He just hasn't been removed yet. You would need crits to make any new harpoons proc.

The Timing Chart came out after the Rules Explanation and succeeds it's timing of destroyed/destruction.

1. Quickdraw and Dengar are nose-to-nose at Range 2, with no pilot skill modifiers. The Imperial player has initiative. Quickdraw has one shield and 3 hull remaining, and has the Harpooned condition card. Dengar has only 3 hull.
2. Quickdraw fires a Harpoon Missile at Dengar's front arc, and lands enough damage to kill him, Dengar is destroyed (step 6). After dealing damage, instead of removing Dengar, he is left in play, and Quickdraw assigns a Harpooned condition card. Step 7 or Step 10 is when harpoon would be assigned, which is up for debate, but either way Dengar is already destroyed. Due to the precedent of Push the Limit FAQ we are still resolving QD's attack. Step 8 triggers Dengars revenge.
3. Dengar fires his revenge shot, forcing Quickdraw to spend all of his tokens on defense.
4. Step 10 resolves leaving Dengar on the table but still destroyed due to sim fire (look at the astromech in the FAQ that repairs hull and repairs a destroyed ships damage card back above the hull value).
5. Dengar fires his primary shot at Quickdraw, and lands 2 hits and a Crit, when Quickdraw completely whiffs on defense.
   1. The crit causes Quickdraw's Harpooned to resolve first, stripping his last shield, then gets discarded.
   2. Quickdraw suffers 3 damage (one face up), exceeding his total hull value and is destroyed. Step 8 triggers and allows QD to attack and if he is able to land a crit on Dengar, triggers harpooned.
   3. Having attacked, Dengar's turn ends (step 10), and he is o fficially "destroyed" removed, triggering his Harpooned card to anyone within Range 1.
6. Quickdraw, having lost a shield, makes one final revenge shot against anyone he can, then is himself "destroyed." This would have happened during step 8 of Dengars attack.
7. The game proceeds, both ships having shuffled off this mortal coil into the depths of oblivion.

edit: added some clarity in point 2.

The problem is, the Attack Timing Chart doesn't have any clear explanation of what the "destroyed" condition is. It is, however, listed in the Rules Reference Document under "Destroying Ships" (above) and "Simultaneous Attack Rule" here:

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SIMULTANEOUS ATTACK RULE (Page 17)

During the Combat phase, all ships with a pilot skill value equal to the active ship have the opportunity to attack before being destroyed. If a ship would be destroyed and it has the same pilot skill value as the active ship but has not had an opportunity to attack yet, it is not destroyed. Instead, it retains its Damage cards and continues to function as normal, suffering any effects on its Damage cards. After it has had its opportunity to attack, it is destroyed and removed from the play area.

• Even if the ship did not have a valid target for an attack, it is removed after its opportunity to attack passes.

• While the Simultaneous Attack Rule keeps a ship in the play area, that ship’s abilities and Damage cards remain active.

• After a ship has resolved its opportunity to attack, before it is destroyed, it can resolve any abilities that trigger after performing an attack.

This seems to clearly indicate that "destroyed" happens at the time the ship is removed, not explicitly when damage would exceed its hull... which jumbles up the timing of effects like Harpooned and Tel Trevura, in those fringe cases where the Simultaneous Attack Rule comes into place.

2 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

This seems to clearly indicate that "destroyed" happens at the time the ship is removed, not explicitly when damage would exceed its hull... which jumbles up the timing of effects like Harpooned and Tel Trevura, in those fringe cases where the Simultaneous Attack Rule comes into place.

Though the FAQ indicates the exact opposite with this question in the "Attack Timing Questions".

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• Q: If an ability triggers when a ship is destroyed, if the ship is destroyed during an attack, when does this ability occur?
• A: The ability occurs after the damage cards are dealt. Typically, this is during the "Deal Damage" step of combat. Although the ship is destroyed, effects from the ship's pilot ability, Upgrade cards, Damage cards, etc. are still active until it is removed at the end of the attack.

This of course also contradicts this section of the rules reference guide under "Card Abilities"

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• When a ship is destroyed, its card abilities are no longer active. The exceptions to this rule are card abilities whose effects have already been triggered and specify a time when the effect ends, such as "until the end of the Combat phase."

There's enough contradicting statements that I could see people arguing either side of the issue. I would probably rule in favor of the FAQ's statement at any events I am running, since the FAQ can override the rules reference.

The thing is, both of those refer to what happens WHEN a ship is destroyed (as in, the destruction is the triggering event). They don't address the actual matter of when a ship is considered to BE destroyed. Where that IS covered is under "destroying ships" in the RRG (damage cards in excess of hull, or fleeing the battlefield), and in the Simultaneous Attack Rule entries in the RRG and FAQ (not "destroyed" until after its activation in the combat round). The "Simultaneous" rule specifically overrides the standard "destroying ships" rule, as a special case exception... and we have yet to get any hard evidence that says a ship can be "destroyed" and yet still be in play.

All of which boils down to, yes, we need a clear FAQ on the matter.

It's pretty simple. A ship is destroyed in Step 7 when it has damage cards in excess of it's hull value, UNLESS it is kept in play due to the Simultaneous Attack rule. If it's kept in play due to the Simultaneous Attack rule, the "destroyed" condition comes into effect after it has had its opportunity to attack.

It doesn't need a FAQ entry.