Ok, a good nights sleep helped me get back into my fighting spirit and of course all of the extremely positive and friendly feedback I've gotten from all of you.

One of the links I've gotten, pointed me to some interesting statics, which underline the fact, that rebels are harder to play, but if understood can be very effective.

In order to understand the rebel forces better, I'd like to ask who would be willing to fight me and while doing so teach me? I've played against RobertK (my first vassal fight, got my setup totally wrong and got my bacon handed to me by a very good Sloan list. It was very educational. So who ever is up for a game please drop me a PM.

I will save those fights and hope they can be used as educational material for newer players.

From that there are several possibilities:

1. Stay with the Rebels
2. Switch over to the dark side
3. Play both sides with preference for one
4. .
5. .
6. .
7. .
8. .
9. .
10. Drop the game because I' not able to figure out how it works (before it takes the fun of out of a great game)

18 hours ago, Onidsen said:

At that level of squadron investment, my favorite setup is Tycho Celchu, Shara Bey, and 2x a-wings.

Tycho and Shara are murder on tie squads of any description. Scatter plus counter is just so nasty against 3 hull squads.

Many of just (if not all) might have noticed, that I often argue against given ideas. That's because I want to give you an idea on how I'm thinking and correct me, where I'm wrong.

As an example. I shy away from using Shara. Her stats look fantastic, but my enemy usually rolls a counter (maybe even re-roll with Swarm just to negate the scatter. So in my mind I can't or at least strongly hesitate to give her as much credit as you do.

I would, for that reason, I'd build an X-Wing into the list just to make sure no to many or all enemy fighters can concentrate on her first.

9 hours ago, emsgoof said:

Unfortunately I didn't see an MC80H1 in your list of ships available.

The MC80s weren't available in German while I was ordering. By now I regret not getting everything in English to keep the cards apart. Therefor I mostlikely I might mix. At least I can get up to two MC80H1 from a friend who isn't playing right now due to time restriction.

9 hours ago, emsgoof said:

If you're set on rebels, and your regular opponent is set on that type of list, I'd go back to the KISS method (Keep It Simple, Stupid) and run the conga line with Ackbar. Keep the upgrades to a minimum so you don't get confused, but keep the MC80 rolling like a tank.

Actually I chose the rebels because out of 4 players (me being the 4th) we already had 2 Imperial players and I didn't want to go Empire too although I prefer the ship design over the rebel ones.

Now it has become something of a challenge to show those Empire players that Rebels can beat them (no Rebel victories so far in all games).

Your list is very beginner friendly while sporting a huge amount of firepower and being tough as nails.

So with Shara, if you're afraid of their counter attacks, you can still toss her in and just leave her to tie up a portion of their fighters, without attacking them directly so they don't get to counterattack. I wouldn't use her with an escort right away but instead aim to have her tie up 3 to 4 of their squadrons since he has no intel. Even if she dies, she usually clears out more than her points worth of enemy squadrons. And if you really don't want to lose her, let her take three attacks or so and then throw an escort squadron in. But honestly, her purpose is to die in a blaze of glory taking many with her, or at least damaging them significantly enough that they flee instead of risking further damage.

18 minutes ago, Formynder4 said:

So with Shara, if you're afraid of their counter attacks, you can still toss her in and just leave her to tie up a portion of their fighters, without attacking them directly so they don't get to counterattack. I wouldn't use her with an escort right away but instead aim to have her tie up 3 to 4 of their squadrons since he has no intel. Even if she dies, she usually clears out more than her points worth of enemy squadrons. And if you really don't want to lose her, let her take three attacks or so and then throw an escort squadron in. But honestly, her purpose is to die in a blaze of glory taking many with her, or at least damaging them significantly enough that they flee instead of risking further damage.

I'm not really afraid of the (counter) attacks, but I just set her value lower than everybody else seems to give her credit for. Everybody states that she has scatter (which of course is great), but at the same time my thoughts go like this: My opponent always rolls and statistically there will be at least one ACC with every attack roll (especially considering swarm) so she can't use it and therefor will die faster than most people predict her to.

(Again I'm explaining my train of thought on how I value or judge units, so please feel free to point that out or me being wrong!)

10 minutes ago, Gordon Freemann said:

I'm not really afraid of the (counter) attacks, but I just set her value lower than everybody else seems to give her credit for. Everybody states that she has scatter (which of course is great), but at the same time my thoughts go like this: My opponent always rolls and statistically there will be at least one ACC with every attack roll (especially considering swarm) so she can't use it and therefor will die faster than most people predict her to.

(Again I'm explaining my train of thought on how I value or judge units, so please feel free to point that out or me being wrong!)

This point of view comes from your experiences of facing high number of blue dice attack squadrons, which you are current her value is lowered against. Now even against your opponents list, not all of his squadrons are high salvo units. What you can do is engage the low attack dice squadrons with Shara, and thus easily outrade blow for blow, and engage a more robust unit, say Wedge or a YT1300 against the high salvo squadrons.

As with everything in this game it is all situational, and its really important to know how best to utilise your forces.

1 hour ago, Gordon Freemann said:

I'm not really afraid of the (counter) attacks, but I just set her value lower than everybody else seems to give her credit for. Everybody states that she has scatter (which of course is great), but at the same time my thoughts go like this: My opponent always rolls and statistically there will be at least one ACC with every attack roll (especially considering swarm) so she can't use it and therefor will die faster than most people predict her to.

(Again I'm explaining my train of thought on how I value or judge units, so please feel free to point that out or me being wrong!)

I gotta agree with @Formynder4 As someone who runs a lot of TIE swarms I absolutely hate her. H*** most of the time I never even shoot at her because her counter is d*** near guaranteed to take down a TIE Fighter or Interceptor and she just gets better if Toryn Farr is nearby. In my opinion she's one of if not THE best anti-squadron fighter in the Rebellion. Just jump her into his lower hitting squads and watch them die trying to kill her. You'll rarely ever have trouble trading her for more points in enemy squads.

Re: Shara: Your opponent's list has TIE Fighters in it. They don't have counter. Send Shara in and attack a TIE fighter. Try to stay within 1-3 of Toryn Farr, and you have a good chance of killing that TIE Fighter. When one of the TIE Interceptors attack you, you have a good chance of killing it too. And if they aren't dead, then your flak from your GR75 Medium Transports should make them dead. (That's why you want the GR75s in there...plus Toryn Farr). Worst case scenario is that she dies from that one TIE Interceptor attack. That's ok — you traded 17 points for 17 points. Best case scenario is that she takes down 3 or 4 before succumbing.

I think part of the problem you might be having is your reluctance to sacrifice pieces. The Rebels especially build their wins on noble sacrifice. The trick is getting something out of it in return.

@Gordon Freemann may I suggest rolling with a pimped out liberty with 2 mc 30s fighter and/or support to taste. It has high manauverability and pretty good survival, with an excellent punch. That being said so much of this game is down to what you like to play. Finding a playstyle that suits you can be tough, especially in a small group. Try not to be reactionary to their lists, choose the idea that appeals to you and roll with it. At the very least you will have more fun, if not win.

1 hour ago, stonestokes said:

I think part of the problem you might be having is your reluctance to sacrifice pieces. The Rebels especially build their wins on noble sacrifice. The trick is getting something out of it in return.

I'd say this is very true. Mostly because I don't know how to evaluate units.

Just now, Noosh said:

@Gordon Freemann may I suggest rolling with a pimped out liberty with 2 mc 30s fighter and/or support to taste. It has high manauverability and pretty good survival, with an excellent punch. That being said so much of this game is down to what you like to play. Finding a playstyle that suits you can be tough, especially in a small group. Try not to be reactionary to their lists, choose the idea that appeals to you and roll with it. At the very least you will have more fun, if not win.

What's a good loadout for the Liberty?

18 minutes ago, Gordon Freemann said:

What's a good loadout for the Liberty?

There a number of ways to make it good.

One that I like is a battlecruiser with Spinal Armaments, xi7 turbolasers, gunnery teams, leading shots, and engine techs.

Of course, it's 137 points, but it throws 5 red dice (6 with concentrate fire) out to long range, and 5 red + 3 blues at medium. Using Madine as a commander, you can slew it around to get out of front arcs - speed 3 +engine techs is your friend here. And this is much less expensive than the ISD you are generally facing.

I'd pair it with a CR90A with Turbolaser Reroute Circuits, or maybe 2. Lots of firepower getting around into the sides or rear of that Imperial formation will make its life miserable.

If you're using Madine you might as well toss Raymus on there as well. My favorite Liberty builds are Endeavor, Spinal Armaments, Gunnery Teams, Engine Techs, Leading shots, Raymus Antilles. With a nav command you now get 3 extra clicks and an additional speed 1 move, you can almost always guarantee that you'll not be in a front arc unless you choose to be. Mind you, it's 172 points all in one package, and really is better against fleets with smaller ships to chase down and bully, but if you manage to avoid a front arc of an ISD and sit in the side arcs while pounding it with your front arc, well, they won't last long.

Other fun things are Mon Karen with Intel Officer to guarantee the loss of a brace, or adding an XI7 as mentioned by Onidsen.

2 hours ago, Gordon Freemann said:

I'd say this is very true. Mostly because I don't know how to evaluate units.

Gordon Freemann many Rebel players have felt that sting of defeat in their early careers. I chose now to comment because sacrifice is the name of the game. Once you figure out where your pieces do the most damage before being destroyed in return is a big part of the game. Also, looking at your fleet it is not very typical of a current Rebel force. Having seen dozens of ISDs go down burning in my games, may I suggest the Assault Frigate MkII if you don't already have one. No matter how many options they have added since, this is still a key ship in the Rebel fleet.

1 hour ago, Onidsen said:

There a number of ways to make it good.

One that I like is a battlecruiser with Spinal Armaments, xi7 turbolasers, gunnery teams, leading shots, and engine techs.

Of course, it's 137 points, but it throws 5 red dice (6 with concentrate fire) out to long range, and 5 red + 3 blues at medium. Using Madine as a commander, you can slew it around to get out of front arcs - speed 3 +engine techs is your friend here. And this is much less expensive than the ISD you are generally facing.

I'd pair it with a CR90A with Turbolaser Reroute Circuits, or maybe 2. Lots of firepower getting around into the sides or rear of that Imperial formation will make its life miserable.

What about this:

Mon Karren, Intel Officer, Gunnery Team or Veteran Gunners (to re-roll blanks), SW-7 (as I don't need much ACCs), XI7, Spinal Armament.

28 minutes ago, Formynder4 said:

If you're using Madine you might as well toss Raymus on there as well. My favorite Liberty builds are Endeavor, Spinal Armaments, Gunnery Teams, Engine Techs, Leading shots, Raymus Antilles. With a nav command you now get 3 extra clicks and an additional speed 1 move, you can almost always guarantee that you'll not be in a front arc unless you choose to be. Mind you, it's 172 points all in one package, and really is better against fleets with smaller ships to chase down and bully, but if you manage to avoid a front arc of an ISD and sit in the side arcs while pounding it with your front arc, well, they won't last long.

Other fun things are Mon Karen with Intel Officer to guarantee the loss of a brace, or adding an XI7 as mentioned by Onidsen.

Sounds like a fun idea

Be careful if you go Liberty. In some ways, it’s a bigger, much angrier Nebulon, which means it will have difficulty escaping or surviving a head on fight, which is what your opponent sounds like he wants. It’s a good ship, but I’d really avoid it given the specific challenges you’re facing right now.

8 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Be careful if you go Liberty. In some ways, it’s a bigger, much angrier Nebulon, which means it will have difficulty escaping or surviving a head on fight, which is what your opponent sounds like he wants. It’s a good ship, but I’d really avoid it given the specific challenges you’re facing right now.

With the ideas Onidsen and Formynder4 gave I should be able to easily go for the flanks, using additional ships to break up his formation, or am I wrong?

Well, it should be easy to outmaneuver the Vic at least. And harder for him to do anything once you're out of that front arc. But you'll most likely take at least one blast on your way in. It shouldn't be too bad though.

22 minutes ago, Gordon Freemann said:

With the ideas Onidsen and Formynder4 gave I should be able to easily go for the flanks, using additional ships to break up his formation, or am I wrong?

You are not wrong; that's a great way to use a Liberty, and it can totally work. My only point is be aware that even though your raw power will vastly improve your weaknesses will be similar to before. Having said that, consider the following troll fleet:

Joust this.

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 394/400

Commander: General Rieekan

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- General Rieekan ( 30 points)
- Lando Calrissian ( 4 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 154 total ship cost

MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 120 total ship cost

MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 120 total ship cost

You'll likely need to borrow a Liberty, but this will almost certainly beat him in a head-on fight, which is his modus operandi. If you remember to use Rieekan and watch your order of activation you stand a fairly good chance of tabling him entirely, but he'll be making fleet changes after that game, and so should you since you'll have made your point.

On 6.1.2018 at 12:12 AM, The Jabbawookie said:

You are not wrong; that's a great way to use a Liberty, and it can totally work. My only point is be aware that even though your raw power will vastly improve your weaknesses will be similar to before. Having said that, consider the following troll fleet:

Joust this.

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 394/400

Commander: General Rieekan

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- General Rieekan ( 30 points)
- Lando Calrissian ( 4 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 154 total ship cost

MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 120 total ship cost

MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 120 total ship cost

You'll likely need to borrow a Liberty, but this will almost certainly beat him in a head-on fight, which is his modus operandi. If you remember to use Rieekan and watch your order of activation you stand a fairly good chance of tabling him entirely, but he'll be making fleet changes after that game, and so should you since you'll have made your point.

I need to see where I can borrow 2 Liberties.

Sunday is my next match against my Nemesis... He lost one of his last games against an Ackbar list (1 MC80AC, 2 AFs and a GR-75 without CAS). The surviving Rebel ship hat 1 hull point left. So it was close. I would have guessed Ackbar would make a more decisive win. Reason he lost, the Empire player didn't use his 80 points of fighter cover.

As I don't have 2 additional Liberties I'm going for this fleet. Any suggestions?

Squeeze home one in on there?

I’d lose Toryn; you’re not rolling enough blues to have bad results there. Having a bid instead comes in handy. Rather than Advanced Projectors, cue up repair commands and move those 4 far-side shields when needed instead. That lets you field Early Warning System if you have it, Reinforced Blast Doors if you don’t (as a bonus, Interceptors can’t shoot an EWS-obstructed side at all.) Either produces an effect that’s harder to come by naturally than projectors.

Intel Officers are a truly great choice and I expect he’ll hate them. Comms Net over Repair Crews might help by sending nav tokens to later trigger Engine Techs while letting your MC80s use a stream of repair commands; that way you get the same benefits, but with a little more flexibility (e.g. passing extra tokens to them early.)

For objectives, Advanced Gunnery is a risky but fun alternative to MW, depending on how adventurous you feel. He’s likely already packing Gunnery Teams, preventing him from getting any value from it. If you take a picture between rounds we can give feedback on the game overall. This looks like a strong fleet, capable of getting good results. Good luck!

Dropping some of the upgrades on your Transports would also allow you to take Leading shots on the 2nd MC80, which is sorely missing.

I'm not an experienced player by any stretch of the imagination, but I was in a similar situation as you not too long ago, going up against the same player, who loves his ISD. Of course, it was not the specific list you're going against, but still, it was an ISD. Here is my 2 cent, which is really nothing new, but it comes from the perspective of someone that was (still is!) in a similar situation.

• I fell in love with Intel Officer. It forces your opponent into making a decision, which means he might make a mistake. At the very least, it prevents him from doing whatever he wants. ECM is the opposite, it makes it so your opponent has a harder time dictating his terms.
• Don't underestimate the MC30. It is far more durable than it looks with the titles and even if Admonition only cancels 1 die, it can make a **** of a difference. Also keep in mind that you can use the token AND Admonition during the same attack, so at long range, using Evades, you're cancelling 2 dice (3 with Mothma!), 1 by Evade, the other by discarding Adminition which is sure to put a dent in your opponent's damage output. You can also use Admonition on a token your opponent has Accuracied!
• A-Wings are awesome. I used to think the same as you, that X-Wings were sturdier and better. Why pay for something that will get blown up? A-Wings end up throwing more dice with their counter AND they also give your opponent a decision point. That is Shara's biggest strength. I've used her as a tackle, not attacking anyone, juste sitting there begging the question: "Do you REALLY want to eat her counter?". For me, it just made the squadron game so simple while I figured out how to make the Rebel ships work. Throw the A-Wings in the fray, even if they get one-shotted, they still counter...
• If you want to have some squadron presence, E-Wings and Corran Horn are also of great help against interceptors + they can sit at distance to and pick things off if he ever brings annoying aces.
• Keep things simple and do try ships on the table rather than on paper. At first, I thought the MC30s would get eaten alive since they needed to get into close range. They don't and when they get there, they'll hurt. I also thought the Liberty would be amazing. Turns out I couldn't fly this ship to save my life...

I've won twice against ISDs (in 4 games) now, once with Leia, a MC30, 2xCR90, Pelta + GR-75 and then another, more convincingly, with Mothma, 2xMC30, 2xCR90 and 1x GR-75. That 2nd time he actually went ISD + 2xVSD and token squadron presence. I went around him and he had trouble maneuvering his VSDs

I'm still scared of ISDs and still strongly dislike going against them, but I know I can make them pop, which makes it an interesting challenge rather than a chore

Don't give up and good luck in your next match!

And as I was unlucky I got sick and will not be able to get the MC80s.

*Sigh*

I changed my setup to this: http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=167827&key=a28b8d625039a031639d94734b5a0df2

12 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

I’d lose Toryn; you’re not rolling enough blues to have bad results there. Having a bid instead comes in handy. Rather than Advanced Projectors, cue up repair commands and move those 4 far-side shields when needed instead. That lets you field Early Warning System if you have it, Reinforced Blast Doors if you don’t (as a bonus, Interceptors can’t shoot an EWS-obstructed side at all.) Either produces an effect that’s harder to come by naturally than projectors.

Why can't Interceptors shoot EWS obstructed sides?

12 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Intel Officers are a truly great choice and I expect he’ll hate them. Comms Net over Repair Crews might help by sending nav tokens to later trigger Engine Techs while letting your MC80s use a stream of repair commands; that way you get the same benefits, but with a little more flexibility (e.g. passing extra tokens to them early.)

Ok, sounds good, will do that.
What about adding Tako to the mix? That way I can switch tokens on one of the MC80s and line up additional repair tokens.

12 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

For objectives, Advanced Gunnery is a risky but fun alternative to MW, depending on how adventurous you feel. He’s likely already packing Gunnery Teams, preventing him from getting any value from it. If you take a picture between rounds we can give feedback on the game overall. This looks like a strong fleet, capable of getting good results. Good luck!

I try to beat him at his own game. The question is, which setups will "chew up" his ISD? I have a Dodonna list with B-Wings and other nasty stuff, but I'm not sure they do enough damage.
On defense he uses repair commands and has blast doors so that ISD is tanking like ****. 1st 5 hull damage will drop in one go. Leaving him with 11 more.