25 minutes ago, Sunrider said:

You've obiously never handled anything weapon-like ... If you can reach the opponents legs with a lightsaber, he can easily reach your head - and with just a slip his leg's safe. Interestingly, most scenes where the LS is turned on to stab are rather 'realistic'. The opponent is up close and unawares, because that's the only way this would work against someone not being drugged, bound or outright dumb.

Without going into too much internet-tough-guy-ery, I am a retired 20 year airborne infantryman with multiple combat deployments who now works in blast welding fabrication. So I have handled a dangerous thing or two.

Flashlightsaber combat would simply be a matter of reach, whoever had the longer blade would kill the other first. Begging the question as to why they didn't just use blasters. If lightsabers take a few moments to ignite, as we see in every single other instance of their use, then Fightsaber-style fighting makes sense. Its just the Dance of the Power Rangers scene that negates all the others.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fightsaber:_Jedi_Lightsaber_Combat

9 hours ago, TheJrade said:

Without going into too much internet-tough-guy-ery, I am a retired 20 year airborne infantryman with multiple combat deployments who now works in blast welding fabrication.

Meanwhile the other guy has a lot more experience on the subject, instead of just chest bumping about his military experiences which does not include sword fighting. ;-)
But hey, if I need an expert in following orders, I am gonna talk to you.

On 1/5/2018 at 9:35 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

@OddballE8 , @SEApocalypse is correct. It has been long established in canon and Legends, going back to ANH that things in real space cast mass shadows in hyperspace that can destroy a ship that is in hyperspace from realspace. This is the reason for hyperspace lanes in the first place.

Yes, but only objects with large enough mass shadows will do damage. Not ships and things like that.

On 1/5/2018 at 8:04 PM, JorArns said:

Here is the Wookiepedia article about those creatures. It might shed a little light on them specifically.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Purrgil

Already read that before, and it casts little light on them for this discussion.
It states that they crash into spaceships and that ships crashed into their swarms during hyperspace travel... but that last one doesn't state if the purgils were in hyperspace too or not...

On 1/5/2018 at 7:56 PM, Stan Fresh said:

I figure hyperspace lanes aren't tight enough that they can get crowded. Do we ever see ships randomly passing each other in hyperspace?

Less like highways, more like oceans in terms of scale.

Well, that's a nice assumption. But then, why do you assume that hyperspace lanes aren't tight enough to get crowded, but still assume that things keep crossing into them in real space?

And no, we've never seen ships randomly passing each other in hyperspace. But we do see several ships travelling together in hyperspace.

1 hour ago, OddballE8 said:

Already read that before, and it casts little light on them for this discussion.
It states that they crash into spaceships and that ships crashed into their swarms during hyperspace travel... but that last one doesn't state if the purgils were in hyperspace too or not...

You know, for someone who was quoting the bits from the episode … is it really asking to much to ask to finish the episode? Because everyone is surprised to find out that purgil can enter hyperspace, an ability which is unknown at large to the rest of the galaxy.

On 6.1.2018 at 0:06 AM, arlo di'lya said:

1. This has always been a thing in Star Wars

(in almost all movies, they make a big deal of getting hyperspace right or your ship is gonna get obliterated by smashing into something else).

2. It’s just not flipping practical...

You have to get big enough ships to take out whatever you are trying to. That means larger hyper drives, engines, parts etc. I don’t know about you but that’s gonna cost A LOT for some glorified suicide rockets.

#SmhForLastJedi #LovedIt

1. It's always been a thing that you should do your calculations in order for your ship not to blow up. What this would do to the stuff that actually blocks you has rarely been explained - there are a few vague references to harmful hypermatter, but... well, after millenia of serving as the Republic's capital, Coruscant still exists. The odds of there being noone with both access to a large enough vessel and enough of a grudge to eradicate it seem rather low to me.

2. It is absolutely practical. As I noted somewhere else, a good tactic doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to beat the alternatives. What do you think are the costs of taking down the Supremacy and its surrounding vessels in regular combat? I'd guess somewhere along the lines of "a large fleet", assuming the Supremacy isn't extremely undergunned for its size. Sacrificing a single heavy cruiser is an absolute bargain (if you can afford it).

15 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

You know, for someone who was quoting the bits from the episode … is it really asking to much to ask to finish the episode? Because everyone is surprised to find out that purgil can enter hyperspace, an ability which is unknown at large to the rest of the galaxy.

Maybe it was just Hera (and any non-Purgill-experts) who didn't know.

Also it cut a wing off and caused some damage to other ships from either impact or debris. I didn’t notice ships go boom. Was enough to distract from the escaping transports but not enough to destroy the ship.

4 minutes ago, Cifer said:

1. It's always been a thing that you should do your calculations in order for your ship not to blow up. What this would do to the stuff that actually blocks you has rarely been explained - there are a few vague references to harmful hypermatter, but... well, after millenia of serving as the Republic's capital, Coruscant still exists. The odds of there being noone with both access to a large enough vessel and enough of a grudge to eradicate it seem rather low to me.

2. It is absolutely practical. As I noted somewhere else, a good tactic doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to beat the alternatives. What do you think are the costs of taking down the Supremacy and its surrounding vessels in regular combat? I'd guess somewhere along the lines of "a large fleet", assuming the Supremacy isn't extremely undergunned for its size. Sacrificing a single heavy cruiser is an absolute bargain (if you can afford it).

Maybe it was just Hera (and any non-Purgill-experts) who didn't know.

Not to throw my hat into one side of this dog and pony show, but think about orbital bombardments. An ISD has enough weapons to slag most planets and yet destruction on the scale of Taris in Legends is one of the only notable instances of orbital bombardment. There are many reasons that you might not want to do that but think about the potential ramifications for Star Wars storylines. In the new canon novel Catalyst: A Rogue One Novel, the author has Orson Krennic order the clones to fire from space on the Voort capital with devastating effect. The introduction of such elements then necessitates the introduction of counter-points to it. Why not slag Alderaan from space? It had a planetary shield so instead they blew up the whole planet. When we are dealing with space opera there is a certain give and take on these things but it’s usually easier to think of “easy solutions” as requiring unique circumstances so that they don’t apply in every case.

36 minutes ago, Cifer said:

Maybe it was just Hera (and any non-Purgill-experts) who didn't know.

Yeah, maybe the veteran spacer who lost already friends about this did not know about this … or maybe they just spontaneously developed the ability to hyperspace. Doesn't matter really.

Either way, our experienced captain, skilled astrogator and experienced travel among the stars assumed that her dead friends did collide with real space purgils from hyperspace … and while she is not an expert on Purgils, she most certainly is an expert on astrogation and hyperspace travel. ;-)

3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

You know, for someone who was quoting the bits from the episode … is it really asking to much to ask to finish the episode? Because everyone is surprised to find out that purgil can enter hyperspace, an ability which is unknown at large to the rest of the galaxy.

Still doesn't prove in any way that they caused ships in hyperspace to crash into their ships in real space.

Let's break this down:

1: Do you ever see any ships in hyperspace crash into them while they are in real space? No.

2: Does Hera say they crash into ships? Yes.

3: Does Hera ever say that cause ships in hyperspace to crash into them? No.

4: For a thread filled with people saying I'm making too many assumptions, their arguments are very assumptive.

So... here's the thing. People are pointing to the Purgills as somehow being proof that ships in hyperspace can impact things that are not in hyperspace. Nowhere is it stated, not in the episode nor on wookieepedia, that this ever happens. The closest you get is a vague statement on wookieepedia that ships in hyperspace have collided with swarms of purgill... doesn't state if those purgill were in hyperspace or not (and considering the fact that they are, and have always been, able to travel through hyperspace, you cannot make the assumption that they were not in hyperspace when those collisions happened)

2 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Yeah, maybe the veteran spacer who lost already friends about this did not know about this … or maybe they just spontaneously developed the ability to hyperspace. Doesn't matter really.

Either way, our experienced captain, skilled astrogator and experienced travel among the stars assumed that her dead friends did collide with real space purgils from hyperspace … and while she is not an expert on Purgils, she most certainly is an expert on astrogation and hyperspace travel. ;-)

She never does state that "her dead friends" collide with real space purgills from hyperspace...
She says (and I quote): "Old pilots said it was the Purgill who inspired us to jump from system to system. But I don't believe it. The Purgill are dangerous. They wander into Hyperspacelanes, *pause* crash into ships. I've lost more than one friend that way."
To me, that pause certainly seems like she's talking about two separate things. They wander into hyperspace lanes. And they crash into ships. Wandering into hyperspace lanes would certainly disrupt traffic (since it's been long established that ships automatically drop out of hyperspace when objects with mass shadows large enough get into their way...). But it doesn't sound like they make ships travelling in hyperspace crash into them. (especially since she says "THEY crash into ships" and not "ships crash into them"...)

That same wookieepedia article says this, though: " Several millennia before the Cold war , ^[6] the purrgil's ability to travel through hyperspace inspired sentients to find their own way of entering that alternate dimension. After studying purrgil, sentient beings ended up inventing the hyperdrive . ^{[7] "}

So, not very likely that NOBODY knew they could fly through hyperspace...

EDIT: Also, screw all of you for making me re-watch this entire episode just to make sure she never says that... I hate Star Wars Rebels... it's a **** kids show. (and shouldn't be canon...)

30 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:

it's a **** kids show

The **** you think Star Wars movies are? They're fairy tales set in the magic space of the futurepast.

5 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

The **** you think Star Wars movies are? They're fairy tales set in the magic space of the futurepast.

So is Pan's Labyrinth, but I dare you to say that it's a kids movie...

There is such a thing as fairy tales for adults, you know.

Yes, the movies can be enjoyed by both young and old, but the movies are not made FOR kids primarily (no matter what Lucas tries to retcon into his interviews, the OT was obviously not made specifically for kids... The prequels, sure, but not the OT)

9 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:

there is such a thing as fairy tales for adults, you know.

My favorite is the one that goes something like "Star Wars is aimed at adults".

Oh, and the writer & director considers Pan's Labyrinth a parable, not a fairy tale.

" The film is set in 1944 and deals the [Batista] regime and Spanish Civil War, yet it's steeped in fantasy. What makes you equate the two, whether it's this film or The Devil's Backbone ?

Del Toro: Because I believe in parables more than I believe in political speech. "

https://web.archive.org/web/20080609075453/http://www.scifi.com/sfw/interviews/sfw14471.html

Relevant :

10 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

Wandering into hyperspace lanes would certainly disrupt traffic (since it's been long established that ships automatically drop out of hyperspace when objects with mass shadows large enough get into their way...

So mass shadows from something the size of purgils established? And that you can crash into mass shadows from hyperspace has been established already in ANH, right? ;-)

4 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

So mass shadows from something the size of purgils established? And that you can crash into mass shadows from hyperspace has been established already in ANH, right? ;-)

I believe it's mass shadows from a whole pod of Pergils, but that whole discussion is rather fuzzy it could just be from ships hitting them when they normally exit hyperspace.

Mass shadow warnings from the navicomputer seem to give a tonne of time from big objects (like the clone wars episode where they almost flew into a sun) maybe they give little time with smaller objects.

Remember the arriving of the Falcon at "former" Alderaan? not much warning for the debris of a whole planet - I really think we can assume [even without the EU references] that there have been more than one big [like "capital ship"-big] rocks within the new asteroid field formerly known as Alderaan.

seems that only very big objects like planets can produce a mass shadow into the Hyperspace,

My assumption : a big pod of Pergils may produce a unique kind of mass shadow while traveling close by close ether in subspace or Hyperspace to keep the pod together (other wise a "stray lamb" would be lost forever thanks to the number of possible routes it would take while going astray during a hyperspace travel.
(somehow like the defenders of Xandar can connect theire shields to create a much bigger one in Guardians of the Galaxy)

Furhermore I think we can assume that Pergils have a completly different way of entering and navigating within the Hyperspace lanes, than the technical devices aboard any ship we know within canon.

// The closest we know about living things jumping through the Hyperspace is out of the EU (EU haters please look into another direction)... yes I dare to write this down... the Vong ships... but that as mentioned is EU and none canon and as I guess totally different from the Pergils and closer to the technical hyperspace use of the rest of the universe since, while living, the mechanics still were added artifically to the "coral-frame", but let's not dive into this anyfurther...

1 hour ago, Nightone said:

yes I dare to write this down... the Vong ships

HERESY DETECTED!

35 minutes ago, Nightone said:

My assumption : a big pod of Pergils may produce a unique kind of mass shadow while traveling close by close ether in subspace or Hyperspace to keep the pod together (other wise a "stray lamb" would be lost forever thanks to the number of possible routes it would take while going astray during a hyperspace travel.

Well, we already know it's possible to create a mass shadow above your own weight - that's how interdictors work. Perhaps the scientists who devised them took a cue from mother nature?

17 minutes ago, Dayham said:

HERESY DETECTED!

YIEEEKS!!! -> Running like the Road Runner *MEEP MEEP*

1 minute ago, Cifer said:

Well, we already know it's possible to create a mass shadow above your own weight - that's how interdictors work. Perhaps the scientists who devised them took a cue from mother nature?

Wouldn't be the first time (just look around OUR level of technologie ^^)

16 hours ago, Eoen said:

I believe it's mass shadows from a whole pod of Pergils, but that whole discussion is rather fuzzy it could just be from ships hitting them when they normally exit hyperspace.

Mass shadow warnings from the navicomputer seem to give a tonne of time from big objects (like the clone wars episode where they almost flew into a sun) maybe they give little time with smaller objects.

1 hour ago, Nightone said:

Remember the arriving of the Falcon at "former" Alderaan? not much warning for the debris of a whole planet - I really think we can assume [even without the EU references] that there have been more than one big [like "capital ship"-big] rocks within the new asteroid field formerly known as Alderaan.

seems that only very big objects like planets can produce a mass shadow into the Hyperspace,

My assumption : a big pod of Pergils may produce a unique kind of mass shadow while traveling close by close ether in subspace or Hyperspace to keep the pod together (other wise a "stray lamb" would be lost forever thanks to the number of possible routes it would take while going astray during a hyperspace travel.
(somehow like the defenders of Xandar can connect theire shields to create a much bigger one in Guardians of the Galaxy)

Furhermore I think we can assume that Pergils have a completly different way of entering and navigating within the Hyperspace lanes, than the technical devices aboard any ship we know within canon.

// The closest we know about living things jumping through the Hyperspace is out of the EU (EU haters please look into another direction)... yes I dare to write this down... the Vong ships... but that as mentioned is EU and none canon and as I guess totally different from the Pergils and closer to the technical hyperspace use of the rest of the universe since, while living, the mechanics still were added artifically to the "coral-frame", but let's not dive into this anyfurther...

When trying to square this stuff, it's worth going back and watching the beginning of the "A Sunny Day in the Void" episode of Clone Wars (Season 5, Episode 11) and trying to figure out what happens with the hyperdrive, mass shadows, and the ice comets. It seems like the ship was able to stay in hyperspace for a long time with the proximity alarm on, and even when they left hyperspace, it was totally manual. It felt like they were messing with the rules in that episode somehow.

On 1/5/2018 at 11:28 PM, TheJrade said:

As for flashlight lightsabers, why not just use them like short range blasters? Click on at your victims legs, off then on at his head, repeat as necessary like an E. Honda flash punch. Virtually impossible to defend against, but not terribly interesting to watch.

That would work against non-Jedi, but not a Jedi. If they can block blaster bolts, they can parry flashlight lightsaber attacks. And most Jedi wouldn't bother to specialize in an attack form that can be countered by their most effective opponents.