Anyone having luck with placing heroes in units? After the first wave of expansions, I ran Ardus in a reanimate block a couple of times with pretty good success. But now folks have figured out how to manage accuracy well enough and I have enough better options anyway, that I don't bother at all with heroes. In fact, the army I'm bringing to Store Champs this weekend doesn't contain any heroes at all. Well, unless you believe that my whole army is made up of heroes. Which it is.

I've heard a little here and there about folks having success with embedded Maro. How does that work? Are there other successful combos out there?

Embedding Maro lets you basically ignore the wounds you cause when he adds trays.

Currently, it only makes sense to embed him in some Reanimates, as you don't want your Death Knights to drop like flies.

Hawthorne in a 3x3 Cavalry unit with Moment of Inspiration is a beast, but its expensive.

Havn't tried Kari in spearmen unit. I would expect her to be ok, but Im sure she is a lot better on her own. She's very versatile with Fortunas dice and Latari Training.

Just theory right now, but I suspect Ravos will be very good in Spined Threshers, I love him as a hero, but for a mere 13 points, you get to add him to a 2x2 or 3x2 unit of Spined Threshers. While there, he still effectively has his setup ability which makes it more likely to have a reroll on your first attack. He also adds Precise 1, granting more rerolls, AND you unit has to have two ranks to take him in the first place. All those rerolls are significant when rolling 2 red dice! (Though maybe max 16 damage isn't worth the points?)

1) Fear Incarnate. If you are running a list that triggers a lot of morale tests, you will want this card, which means you need Ravos as a standalone unit.

2) Ravos is a hero-killer. Well, not just heroes, but anything with high armor and low to medium wounds. His surge ability and End Phase ability can quickly stack wounds on a hero. I don't think it's a bad idea to treat Ravos as a hero assassin in much the samd way Kari is a figure upgrade assassin.

I think maybe I've talked myself out of embedding Ravos ... Still, I look forward to trying his figure upgrade when the Spined Threshers Unit Expansion becomes available.

54 minutes ago, Elliphino said:

I ran Ardus in a reanimate block a couple of times with pretty good success. But now folks have figured out how to manage accuracy well enough and I have enough better options anyway, that I don't bother at all with heroes.

I finally have enough Reanimates to try out Profane Banner Bearer. With two 3x2 units of Reanimates, one can have Ardus, and one can have the Profane Banner Bearer. It gives Ardus one extra round to lead his unit into battle because the evil archers (Kari or otherwise) are constrained to take out the Profanity first...seems like a lot of work just to get a white die. I probably won't try it any time soon.

46 minutes ago, Aetheriac said:

Embedding Maro lets you basically ignore the wounds you cause when he adds trays.

Currently, it only makes sense to embed him in some Reanimates, as you don't want your Death Knights to drop like flies.

So what are you trying to raise then? Archers?

To make this work, you either need a six tray reanimate unit or Ardus and a four tray unit. It seems like a big investment for what he does. How do you make it pay off?

11 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

I think maybe I've talked myself out of embedding Ravos ... Still, I look forward to trying his figure upgrade when the Spined Threshers Unit Expansion becomes available.

That's the thing, I always end up talking myself out of embedding heroes.

3 minutes ago, Elliphino said:

So what are you trying to raise then? Archers?

To make this work, you either need a six tray reanimate unit or Ardus and a four tray unit. It seems like a big investment for what he does. How do you make it pay off?

I've run him with Ardus in a 2x2 with a couple 2x1 archers and a 3x2 reanimate as well. He was able to build up the archers and the other reanimate unit and with the reanimates regenerate his own unit was mostly full most of the time. I won't say it is the most effective build, but it was able to really hang in there.

Thinking about Kari in the upcoming Outland Scouts. It would kick out "Seasoned Pathfinder" but they can still close in fast. Kari's ability with 3 blue dice and surge modifier could be awesome.

6 minutes ago, King Cheesecake said:

Thinking about Kari in the upcoming Outland Scouts. It would kick out "Seasoned Pathfinder" but they can still close in fast. Kari's ability with 3 blue dice and surge modifier could be awesome.

What's "seasoned pathfinder"? I can't seem to find it.

34 minutes ago, Elliphino said:

What's "seasoned pathfinder"? I can't seem to find it.

Search the Runewars wiki. The card was shown on the expansion picture when the scouts were announced.

@King Cheesecake

yeah I think Kari in a 2x2 of scouts will be awesome. Even better if you can afford MoI.

also waiting for darnati to come out so I can try maegan in a 3x2 of archers. (Nothing in the darnati to make that work, I just don’t want to invest anymore in my elves until they come out and need them for the point to embed maegan)

I’ve been very unwhelmed by embedded Maro’s Opportunity cost.

hawthorne and kari are both great standalones, but I try to avoid sinking too many points into them so the rest of the list stays strong.

15 hours ago, Elliphino said:

So what are you trying to raise then? Archers?

To make this work, you either need a six tray reanimate unit or Ardus and a four tray unit. It seems like a big investment for what he does. How do you make it pay off?

Maro alone is 40 pts, in a 3x2 he costs 52, which is worth the 8-16 trays he can add.

For Latari, Aliana embedded in a 2x2 or 2x3 of Leonx is one of the best possible upgrades they can get, and frees up bull pennon for something like raven tabards, which combined gives you an extremely threatening unit. Also relatively cheap compared to other hero upgrades.

HOWEVER, you will almost never do that (at least with what the Latari currently have), because solo Aliana is just way too good to pass up, which saddens me a little bit, as I'd love to do both.

As for Maegan, she is underwhelming to say the least. At 10 points, she is hard to kill, but doesn't add much (on average 1-2 damage is a really bad dmg output for the price point). She does get better on a unit with something like fire rune, or in a Leonx unit supported by dispatch runner, as the lethal gets to trigger on each attack. I wouldn't recommend her anywhere else though.

17 hours ago, Heilbuth said:

Hawthorne in a 3x3 Cavalry unit with Moment of Inspiration is a beast, but its expensive.

Havn't tried Kari in spearmen unit. I would expect her to be ok, but Im sure she is a lot better on her own. She's very versatile with Fortunas dice and Latari Training.

I'm partial to hawthorne in a 2x3 w/ column tactics. A fair bit cheaper.

11 minutes ago, Darthain said:

I'm partial to hawthorne in a 2x3 w/ column tactics. A fair bit cheaper.

Ah right Column Tactics makes for some interesting cheaper combos

23 hours ago, Aetheriac said:

Embedding Maro lets you basically ignore the wounds you cause when he adds trays.

Currently, it only makes sense to embed him in some Reanimates, as you don't want your Death Knights to drop like flies.

Embedding Maro is, in my humble opinion the absolute best hero to imbed. In fact, in my opinion he is better suited imbedded than not. The obvious example that would be against this is his ability to snipe with Fortuna's and his dialed Mortal Wound. Outside of that, I've brought 14 trays in a game additional. Maro in a 2x2 with a 3x2 or 3x3 of reanimates and a couple 2x1 of archers. 14 more trays is a HUGE advantage, I brought 56 ADDITIONAL health points to the fight. @Wraithist cheated and used MOI on his 3x2 of archers and still won, but had he not, I probably would have done just fine.

23 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

Just theory right now, but I suspect Ravos will be very good in Spined Threshers, I love him as a hero, but for a mere 13 points, you get to add him to a 2x2 or 3x2 unit of Spined Threshers. While there, he still effectively has his setup ability which makes it more likely to have a reroll on your first attack. He also adds Precise 1, granting more rerolls, AND you unit has to have two ranks to take him in the first place. All those rerolls are significant when rolling 2 red dice! (Though maybe max 16 damage isn't worth the points?)

think there are two big reasons to run Ravos as an independent hero instead of a figure upgrade.

1) Fear Incarnate. If you are running a list that triggers a lot of morale tests, you will want this card, which means you need Ravos as a standalone unit.

2) Ravos is a hero-killer. Well, not just heroes, but anything with high armor and low to medium wounds. His surge ability and End Phase ability can quickly stack wounds on a hero. I don't think it's a bad idea to treat Ravos as a hero assassin in much the samd way Kari is a figure upgrade assassin.

I think maybe I've talked myself out of embedding Ravos ... Still, I look forward to trying his figure upgrade when the Spined Threshers Unit Expansion becomes available.

I can't wait to imbed Ravos, I've been having to convince myself NOT to buy a 3rd army expansion so I can do it now. Ravos gets to keep SO MUCH of his stuff imbedded. He gets his set up ability to give everyone panic, he adds precise on a unit that gets 1.5 rerolls already (2x2 and ST's reroll on panic) and he gets his end of activation wound to dish out. ST are a LITTLE slower than him on his own but they can eat a wound if needed. A 2x2 with Ravos imbedded is 20 wounds. Run that into a group of enemy units or near a hero and watch everything drop. You can attack a unit while an enemy hero is in range, attack the unit and spend your wound on hero. So many options. I love the idea of Ravos imbedded, I think it'll be much better when we get Kethra.

22 hours ago, King Cheesecake said:

Thinking about Kari in the upcoming Outland Scouts. It would kick out "Seasoned Pathfinder" but they can still close in fast. Kari's ability with 3 blue dice and surge modifier could be awesome.

I think Kari in Outland Scouts, may very well be better than Maro in reanimates. It could be used to get into the enemy side, attack 2 maybe 3 times and just spread a ton of damage around to the whole army. When the real battle begins each unit will be hurting which is a great advantage. I feel like the Kari in Outland Scouts will be a kamikaze unit or saved for the end of the game to finish off an army. Super effective against big blocks of Infantry or archers.

8 hours ago, Alicitorte said:

For Latari, Aliana embedded in a 2x2 or 2x3 of Leonx is one of the best possible upgrades they can get, and frees up bull pennon for something like raven tabards, which combined gives you an extremely threatening unit. Also relatively cheap compared to other hero upgrades.

HOWEVER, you will almost never do that (at least with what the Latari currently have), because solo Aliana is just way too good to pass up, which saddens me a little bit, as I'd love to do both.

As for Maegan, she is underwhelming to say the least. At 10 points, she is hard to kill, but doesn't add much (on average 1-2 damage is a really bad dmg output for the price point). She does get better on a unit with something like fire rune, or in a Leonx unit supported by dispatch runner, as the lethal gets to trigger on each attack. I wouldn't recommend her anywhere else though.

I've seen Maegan used with great success, her ability to either do lethal or attack everyone in range on surge is nice, I've seen it used to take out a bunch of small units around her and I've seen it used to do the last few bits of damage needed to get another wound or to finish off a hero.

I've almost never seen Hawthorne imbedded, Ardus I think is better suited to lend his crows to the army, he's an expensive upgrade card for what you get in my opinion, though an army that is focused on using surges around him may be beneficial with the added white die. Aliana's ambush pretty much secures her not getting imbedded. We don't know what Kethra will add imbedded, I'm guessing the skill and maybe brutal or precise and hopefully a white die. I'm hoping for the skill, the surge, and the brutal or precise myself. She'll most likely be expensive either way though.

20 hours ago, Alicitorte said:

For Latari, Aliana embedded in a 2x2 or 2x3 of Leonx is one of the best possible upgrades they can get, and frees up bull pennon for something like raven tabards, which combined gives you an extremely threatening unit. Also relatively cheap compared to other hero upgrades.

HOWEVER, you will almost never do that (at least with what the Latari currently have), because solo Aliana is just way too good to pass up, which saddens me a little bit, as I'd love to do both.

As for Maegan, she is underwhelming to say the least. At 10 points, she is hard to kill, but doesn't add much (on average 1-2 damage is a really bad dmg output for the price point). She does get better on a unit with something like fire rune, or in a Leonx unit supported by dispatch runner, as the lethal gets to trigger on each attack. I wouldn't recommend her anywhere else though.

This is my thought exactly. Aliana is great embedded (I love having MOI in that unit too...) That's 2 bleu, 1 red and 2 white dice!

Unfortunately, the set-up ability is really good and I always miss it when I embed her.


Maegan I just can't justify her. If you plan on using the surge ability, she wants to go in a small unit with lots of dices (Small so threat is low). However, small units aren't that tough. Someday I'll try her in a 2 by 1 of archer though.

Hawthorne - embed or don’t. Either is good, I think solo is a bit better. The Daqan seem to be embracing the “mountain of Inspiration” strategy.

Kari - Solo at least until scouts. She doesn’t have a good unit yet to be in.

Ardus - Solo. He is mind-numbingly bad embedded right now. His ability is awesome, but he needs an infantry with blue dice for him to work right.

Ankaur-Embed. He allows for good amounts of generating more troops. Solo, he can do serious damage but archers are a bit more efficient.

Maegan-Either

Aliana-Either

Ravos-Sweet baby jeebus run him solo. If you can avoid running him headlong into large formations he is a wrecking ball. With Fear Incarnate he has an impressive passive damage buff and insatiable Hunger makes him stupidly fast and flexible. Nothing like watching John Goodman run a 4.0 40m dash while eating people.

Kethra-I have no prediction yet. I have no really idea what way they would take her upgrade.

1 hour ago, Church14 said:

Ardus - Solo. He is mind-numbingly bad embedded right now. His ability is awesome, but he needs an infantry with blue dice for him to work right.

Ardus does add a white die for surge possibilities, and you can always pick up a blue die on a flank, say, when you inflict the morale test that allows you to reform the defending unit. Also, red, red, white with threat 4 seems pretty amazing! Still, his Host of Crows ability is strong enough that I do believe solo > embedded.

1 hour ago, Church14 said:

Ravos-Sweet baby jeebus run him solo...Nothing like watching John Goodman run a 4.0 40m dash while eating people.

LOL!

6 hours ago, Church14 said:

Nothing like watching John Goodman run a 4.0 40m dash while eating people.

haha, I bet like Uncle Buck (John Candy), Ravos also flips his pancakes with a shovel.

6 hours ago, Church14 said:

Ravos-Sweet baby jeebus run him solo. If you can avoid running him headlong into large formations he is a wrecking ball. With Fear Incarnate he has an impressive passive damage buff and insatiable Hunger makes him stupidly fast and flexible. Nothing like watching John Goodman run a 4.0 40m dash while eating people.

I honestly think imbedded isn't a horrible option. He loses his dice, and his surge ability. He loses his brutal but in ST they have brutal so that's not really a loss. ST roll a respectable red/red which with 3 threat can be great (IE reanimates) Ravos then gains health by being in a major block (they must chew through 2/10 to get to Ravos. and 2/15 to kill Ravos. He loses some of his speed and that passive damage is nice, but with a larger Ravos (block of ST) his range of his auto wound is larger and he doesn't fear big blocks as much either. With the rerolls afforded to a 2x2 of ST w/ Ravos (2.5 rerolls) you are looking at great odds of whatever you want. I don't feel like doing the math but your odds of two hits is **** near 90% and the 4 hits is probably somewhere around 30-40%? That's not a bad option. Using this group to get through targets will be devastating. Benefit if high armor target is fighting within range 1 of block as it can damage that unit instead of whatever it's engaged with.

In one of my Uthuk games, I killed the last bit of archers the Latari had and then finished off Aliana with the wound. Had my range been increased (2x2 unit) I could have also targeted Maegan.

Aliana is a good value embedded. Her issue is she adds even more solo, and I find it hard to do much to replace her with the points savings.

I'm looking forward to Latari getting another character -- Maegan kind of wants MSU archers, leaving no room for Aliana as a character upgrade (and I haven't been super-impressed with Maegan solo as anything other than a fragile beatstick). If Latari had somebody else I'd want to run solo, I could totally see adding Aliana to lead your unit of Leonx.

Maybe we'll get a Yeron hero...

On 1/5/2018 at 11:08 AM, Church14 said:

If you can avoid running him headlong into large formations he is a wrecking ball. With Fear Incarnate he has an impressive passive damage buff and insatiable Hunger makes him stupidly fast and flexible. Nothing like watching John Goodman run a 4.0 40m dash while eating people.

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