Has anyone given any thought on how to distribute access to the different kinds of Magic actions and maneuvers?

I am now considering making it so that once you have access to one pool of Magic (by introducing a Knowledge skill for each pool), then you do not automatically get access to all the actions/maneuvers (Attack, Augment, Barrier etc.), but you'd rather start by getting access to one or two of these with all "additional effects" included, and need to unlock the rest.

For instance I think that Arcane and Primal would naturally start with Attack, while Divine would start with Heal. Then you need to learn the other actions.

I feel that if all it takes is to buy Knowledge Arcana once and then you can suddenly heal without using medicine, craft armour without whatever skill that would be and so on then there's very little reason to get those other skills over Arcana.

Anyone given this any thought?

Though I am approaching this from a Psionics point of view and am working slightly differently, I have created a ranked Talent called Warlock. This allows the Psi to choose one of the Psionic Powers from the list and also makes the casting skill a career one. In my setting the first rank must be taken at character generation but that is only because of the way my setting is. I have given one of the Psionic Powers I am using a minimum rank due to it being one of the more powerful ones. This means that in order to gain all of the powers they must work their way up to Tier 5 talents. It also depends on your setting, a more classic fantasy game might be more limited to them having very specific spells (i.e. a lightning attack spell) rather than having the entire attack power.

Also the replacement of other skills is mentioned, to make this less likely the difficulty of a magical effect should be at least one higher than doing the task using a mundane method.

Personally I like more limited spells, or at the very least some way of limiting the usefulness of the broad spells. For instance limiting the Attack spell to one energy type. This limiter is then tuned through either talents granting additional spell functionality or perhaps by skill level (ie: You know 1 element type for the attack spell per rank in the associated Knowledge skill).

However you could just go with something as simple as "When you take the first rank in the [Magic] skill, you begin knowing the Utility spell and one other spell of choice from the skill's list of available spells. For each additional rank taken in the [Magic] skill, you may learn one additional spell."

One option might be roleplaying related. For example give character access to one action (e.g. utility, or anything you feel fits the setting (heal for divine might fit the setting)) when they gain access to magic, and then allow them to gain access to more with a teacher. You can even make talents, which give access to magic actions, and allow PC to buy those when they are have a teacher to teach them. I think that the need for control is very setting specific thing.

I have decided to use this kind of limitation in our SW games with force powers. I.e. PCs need teacher or holocron to be allowed to buy certain powers.

For my Urban Fantasy style game I am going to go with giving the PCs access to the Utility Magic Action and one other Magic Action of their choice when they pick up their first rank in the Magic Skill (Arcane, Divine, or Primal). I figure that the Utility Action is the apprentice type stuff that all wielders would have to use as they learn their way around the craft.... as I can't picture a Master starting off with fireballs and such as slip ups could be really bad that way!

And then giving them access to another action for each additional rank in their Magic Skill they gain to show their knowledge and powers expanding and growing with their increased experience.

I didn't go with the Attack action as the freebie also because believe it or not... I have actually had several players who want their casters to not use their gifts for attack in several campaigns. Which I am ok with, especially with the openness and free-form way magic works in this system I think they can really shine without Attack Action if they choose to.

... I am also leaning toward making a talent that removes the 2 strain cost for the Utility Action, because due to the limited nature of the spell as is... why not let them use it more often. But I can't seem to figure out a good Tier I am happy with to slot it in at.

I am more inclined towards baking this into the skill system than to create new talents just for this.

10 minutes ago, Palomarus said:

For my Urban Fantasy style game I am going to go with giving the PCs access to the Utility Magic Action and one other Magic Action of their choice when they pick up their first rank in the Magic Skill (Arcane, Divine, or Primal). I figure that the Utility Action is the apprentice type stuff that all wielders would have to use as they learn their way around the craft.... as I can't picture a Master starting off with fireballs and such as slip ups could be really bad that way!

And then giving them access to another action for each additional rank in their Magic Skill they gain to show their knowledge and powers expanding and growing with their increased experience.

I didn't go with the Attack action as the freebie also because believe it or not... I have actually had several players who want their casters to not use their gifts for attack in several campaigns. Which I am ok with, especially with the openness and free-form way magic works in this system I think they can really shine without Attack Action if they choose to.

This is very similar to what I have been thinking lately. You say that Attack was not your choice of freebie, but it could still be the chosen free one right? Also, note that there are 8 available magic types but only 5 ranks in skill, so with your 2 for first skill and +1 for each additional skill this will only cover up to 6 of these spell types. So a couple more than just the first should give access to more than one, maybe the last two?

Although your mileage may vary I seem to recall that they advise that none of the spellcaster type get all of the spell types. So for example a wizard would not get Heal. It is your game so it is up to you whether you follow that advise but that is what FFG have suggested. I have to be honest, if I were running a fantasy game I might be included to have specific spells (i.e. Fireball or Flight) rather than the very broad categories in the book.

Of course, I completely forgot about that, I just checked and Arcana has 6 types and Divine/Primal has 5, so that works out nicely.

As for the broad types in the book I love it, it means we can go beyond the rather simplistic spellcasting from D&D and use more complex things ala The Wheel of Time.

I have also added a few more Magic Actions for my own Urban and Traditional Fantasy Settings I plan to run. And I am sure I will be adding a few more as I go along. That being said... I am also ok with knowing that it may come to a point where it is impossible for a caster to know every single type of magical "spell" out there. They can eventually learn "most" ways to use their powers, but maybe not "all" ways.

I am also thinking about allowing PCs to learn additional actions if really needed through study of ancient texts, spell books, etc if really needed.

Would you mind sharing those extra actions? I've seen people discussing making more actions etc. but to me the rules as written seem really encompassing, and I don't see what's missing.

Here is the draft doc I am working on :

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1V6q7bxqabn0n5hdXqUPZ2AmOcHWLdV_y

Cool, will take a look, quick question what template are you using? One of those in the Master Resources list?

I am a computer troglodyte.... and am using the lowly PowerPoint for this project! ?

Mainly cause I have more free time at work than me or my boss would like to admit... so I can work on it during my low flow days for my work computer.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1feyYhwZrGzySM1SD8sRg6M-_oIH1PdLqhn4d6dTVDJA

14 hours ago, Palomarus said:

Here is the draft doc I am working on :

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1V6q7bxqabn0n5hdXqUPZ2AmOcHWLdV_y

Is that my shape-change spell I spy over there?

4 hours ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

Is that my shape-change spell I spy over there?

Let's hope so, because I stole it and added it to the OmniVerse, only fitting if he stole it from you first, thus we come full circle.

5 hours ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

Is that my shape-change spell I spy over there?

It is indeed good sir... you were cited credit for it in the original thread I posted the doc in.

But maybe I should add a citation in the doc itself... don't want anyone to think I am claiming credit for their brain children. ?

On 1/3/2018 at 3:15 AM, Morridini said:

Anyone given this any thought?

Having played quite a bit using magic RAW, my observation is that anything besides attack/heal is generally sub-optimal in most confrontations, especially if they are short. If anything there is a need to incentivize those other actions. Also, the additional effects are so very situational that only occasionally do they justify the difficulty cost -- no need to lock them away.

1 hour ago, Lorne said:

Having played quite a bit using magic RAW, my observation is that anything besides attack/heal is generally sub-optimal in most confrontations, especially if they are short. If anything there is a need to incentivize those other actions. Also, the additional effects are so very situational that only occasionally do they justify the difficulty cost -- no need to lock them away.

First off, I'm not talking about locking the additional effects, only spell types, just so we're clear.

Also going by Palomarus idea about giving only Utility first you might make the players think about and appreciate those spell types more.