Hi all,

My regional preparations are now underway and i'm looking for some advice regarding turn zero.

The list I have chosen is the standard LW, HLC, Rey Dash with CM and (PS9) VI, R2D2, Adv Optics, AT, B1 Poe.

I currently use the largest asteroids.

How would you approach setup in terms of asteroid placement? and do you keep Poe and Dash immediately at R3 of each other to ensure LW is triggering?

If you have any images of example set ups that would be great!

Thanks,

I've found myself facing Dash rather than using him, but I've been repeatedly brutalised by played against him enough to make the following observations:

• Debris is your friend, the more of it and the larger the better. Dash completely ignores it aside from obstructing attacks, and with a 4-dice big stick, he tends to benefit more than his opponent when extra green dice abound. A debris token can be used to protect your range 1 bubble from someone disinclined to fly into it after you, whilst an asteroid can prevent you from shooting (or at least make you waste an action barrel rolling off it)
• When Dash gets killed, it's usually because he got boxed into a corner. Try to keep him more or less in the centre (especially since that's where the obstacles are - see above). Poe is probably happier around the edges where he has space to get around with straight-and-boost and slow banks.
• You won't get lone wolf all the time every time. It's a case of deciding when to bring Poe in in support; ideally you want lone wolf active during that one turn , but if it's a choice between Dash getting Lone Wolf, and Poe getting to shoot at all, I know which one I'd pick.
  • It's going to be a case-by-case assessment of your opponent.
  • Essentially you have two really good but mutually contradictiory upgrades: Lone Wolf and Black one.
  • The Former wants the two ships to be at range 3, and is great when being shot at by swarms and heavy swarms, the latter wants the two ships at range 1 and is great against PS10 or less missile alpha strikes.
• I'd deploy them together but not too close (say range 2 apart with one of them in a corner and the other 1/4 to 1/3 of the way into the board) so you can split them up more once you can see where the fight is shaping up. Deploy them too far apart and you risk them being engaged separately and losing more than you gain.
• Poe is tough as old boots but remember that he's relatively slow - a T-70's green moves are not very fast compared to Dash Rendar's incredibly open dial when not needing Push The Limit. Yes, you can boost but if you do you're not target locking, and your firepower suffers, and you have no access to evade tokens.

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Debris is your friend, the more of it and the larger the better.

This...

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

When Dash gets killed, it's usually because he got boxed into a corner. Try to keep him more or less in the centre (especially since that's where the obstacles are - see above). Poe is probably happier around the edges where he has space to get around with straight-and-boost and slow banks.

...and this...

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Essentially you have two really good but mutually contradictiory upgrades: Lone Wolf and Black one.

...and this. Yes. Yes. To @Magnus Grendel you listen.

I fly Dash regularly, and Poe is frequently the other half of my list. I don’t use Lone Wolf when I fly Poe because I prefer Black One. My Dash/Poe list is built for action efficiency. I don’t enjoy regen Poe as much.

6 minutes ago, jmswood said:

I fly Dash regularly, and Poe is frequently the other half of my list. I don’t use Lone Wolf when I fly Poe because I prefer Black One. My Dash/Poe list is built for action efficiency. I don’t enjoy regen Poe as much.

Obviously I hate you and everything you stand for as someone who regularly uses Dash Rendar ( not that that's a sore spot in any way) but I greatly approve of this view.

I've no particular experience playing with Poe Dameron, but when playing against him, the BB-8, Primed Thrusters, Intensity, or I guess now BB-8, Advanced Optics, Veteran Instincts, just seems more fun to use. Certainly when mixing it up with Strikers, Boost-and-Barrel Roll Poe is a joy to fly against and provides an actual dogfight .

I'm aware that shield regeneration is probably better in the long run, but it just seems less fun.

What do you replace Dash's elite upgrade with, then?

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Obviously I hate you and everything you stand for as someone who regularly uses Dash Rendar ( not that that's a sore spot in any way) but I greatly approve of this view.

If this wasn’t such a common sentiment I might guess you were a certain player I know in Santa Cruz, California. Your choice of words is eerily familiar. Interestingly enough, I’ve never played Dash against that guy.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Boost-and-Barrel Roll Poe is a joy to fly ... and provides an actual dogfight .

This is the reason Intensity + BB-8 is the only Poe I know. It’s also the reason most of my lists don’t have turrets. I’ve actually flown Dash without Outrider.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

What do you replace Dash's elite upgrade with, then?

PtL. My Outrider-less Dash uses Expertise, but my default is PtL. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. (Of course you would probably say it’s broken. )

Dash is the best! I try and make a cluster of obstacles in the middle and keep Dash there all game. I bring the biggest debris and if my opponent does too I know it is going to be a good game! Dash in a corner is a sad Dash and as stated above you want him and his wingman to both be shooting as often as possible. I don't fly him with Poe but I hear that is all the rage these days. You picked a good ship. Dash is so fun to fly!

Gonna echo the advice on obstacles. The point of rock placement is to give yourself the most information about where your opponent is going, and give them the least information about where you’re going. With debris on the board, Dash can go absolutely anywhere. The obstacles have zero consequence to him. No other ship in the game can say that; you’ll always have the advantage. With asteroids, they’ll at least know you won’t land on one, even if you’re okay flying over it.

Debris has been covered plenty, I'll just echo 3 large debris and place them pretty close to the center if you can.

As far as LW and getting it to trigger: I like starting my ships next to each other and split up (which is very easy with boost on Poe and Barrel roll on Dash). If you start at the corners you will always be converging, however if you start together your ships can be almost anywhere after 2 turns, and you're more likely to be able to setup LW Dash for multiple turns of LW triggering. You could alternatively start in a corner facing along the backside and turn one of them in, sending the other down the backside of the mat.

I've flown LW Dash+1 a bit and I almost always setup dead center, but would go a little left or right depending on opponent setup. Against swarmy type things you want to drag them through the rocks to split them up, then send Dash to circle the outside while maneuverable Poe cleans up the middle. Against aces I'd send Dash into the middle and then behind the approaching aces (they're maneuverable, but you'll have some shots behind as they come around the rocks). If you see Palp in a shuttle, kill the shuttle first by splitting forces and screaming along the edges to get behind it.

14 hours ago, jmswood said:

If this wasn’t such a common sentiment I might guess you were a certain player I know in Santa Cruz, California. Your choice of words is eerily familiar. Interestingly enough, I’ve never played Dash against that guy.

Over in the UK, I'm afraid. My regular nemesis is a Dash Rendar devotee. To be honest, Dash is the less annoying of the ships I face; his standard pairing for her is Miranda Doni, who I have far more issues with .

14 hours ago, jmswood said:

PtL. My Outrider-less Dash uses Expertise, but my default is PtL. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. (Of course you would probably say it’s broken. )

I'm not going to say 'broken'. Frankly even 'new dash' isn't that bad - I like using swarms and heavy swarms, so I have only myself to blame that I don't normally have anyone with a Pilot Skill higher than Dash, which is usually the best answer to him (although I'm considering how to build a version of 'Blackout'* as a dedicated 'look, I can mess around in debris too!' Dash-sniper).

He's annoying to deal with but with Push The Limit, at least you don't get rerolls on attack and defence and focus on attack and defence. It'd be even less annoying if he didn't have the means to ignore the downside of Push The Limit, but with FFG provided Kanan as an option, for a reason, I guess.

14 hours ago, jmswood said:

This is the reason Intensity + BB-8 is the only Poe I know.

If you can lay your mittens on a copy of Advanced Optics, I can recommend Black One/Veteran Instincts/BB-8/Advanced Optics. It's almost as good an action efficiency, but it means you get to boost/barrel roll late enough in the turn to potentially strip off Target Locks from PS10 and PS11 missile aces, meaning people who want to turn the game into Harpoon Missiles, The Musical actually have to work for their money.

12 hours ago, jonnyd said:

Against swarmy type things you want to drag them through the rocks to split them up, then send Dash to circle the outside while maneuverable Poe cleans up the middle.

Always good advice about trying to drag people through the rocks. The ultimate goal with a swarm is to have them 'chasing' Dash Rendar - if they're trying to run after him he can generally keep himself at range 3, where his Heavy Laser Cannon delivers 4 dice against base agility, whilst their primary weapons deliver 2-3 dice against 3 defence dice (plus lone wolf). Poe is best used for crisis management here - where Dash comes unstuck in a chase is if one or two ships decline to chase and get ahead of him to cut him off - but if one or two ships break off the 'pack', that's the ideal prey for Poe to pounce on.

12 hours ago, jonnyd said:

Against aces I'd send Dash into the middle and then behind the approaching aces (they're maneuverable, but you'll have some shots behind as they come around the rocks). If you see Palp in a shuttle, kill the shuttle first by splitting forces and screaming along the edges to get behind it.

Agreed. Aces are incredibly manoeuvrable but - especially the push the limit types - the one thing they usually can't or won't do is a 180' end-around because they really, really don't want stress (TIE defenders can, of course, so in their case the 'safe spot' is off to the side rather than directly behind them). Plus, with 4 dice and no range 3 bonus, Dash Rendar is one of only two or three 'turrets' in the game which is a credible threat to an autothruster-equipped TIE interceptor or protectorate.

In this case, though, ultimately Dash is probably going to go down - his big problem against the Fenn Rau's and the Soontir Fels is that they can boost and barrel roll their way into range 1, where not only are they delivering maximum pain but they're in a blind spot where you can't shoot back at all. Sitting on or behind a debris marker is a good defensive option, but ultimately, assume Dash is going to get killed in the face. Therefore it's a matter of trying to 'trade' Dash for enough of the enemy squad that Poe can win the ace-off he ends up in - which means, as noted, taking out Palpatine/Kylo Ren (if present), and hopefully killing whichever ace you don't want Poe facing off against (with Poe as described, other PS11 aces like Kylo or Vader if they have initiative, or Thweek, or anyone who can mess with your focus tokens)

* On a totally unrelated note, speaking as a regular first order player, can I register my concern that someone** decided to turn over the irreplaceable prototype of the new TIE superiority fighter to a test pilot who's call-sign is 'Blackout' ?

** Probably General Hux...

I've never understood the groaning about Dash really. I get it from the people who don't like turrets in general, because he is the epitome of what turrets do. But he's always been very vulnerable to counter-play and his PS of 7 hasn't pushed the PS wars to 10-11 that it seems to be now. He's always been vulnerable to stress, blocks, boxing in, or cornering and he's only as tough as two X-wings (without integrated astromech). At least that's what I tell myself when I face him.

Don't get me wrong, I also enjoy playing with him, he's a powerful tool but he definitely has some matchup problems and he's been around for a long time, so a lot of people know what they're doing against him.

But anyway, to the topic.

I like the list, but I'm personally not a fan of Lone Wolf on Dash. I know it synergizes with counter measures especially well, but I prefer Expertise and Burn out SLAM as my "get out of jail free" card. The positioning tax on lone wolf is just too high for my tastes. In those troublesome matchups with aces, the freedom to use Poe as a screen to keep enemies out of range 1 and still keep up the efficiency is very nice. You're also able to target lock more, which can really help when Dash just ***** the bed and one-reroll won't help. Dash's best defense is a consistent offense.

Black One of course can be used for just Poe, but that 1 point goes even further if Dash can be Poe's umbrella.