30 minutes ago, Khaalis said:

The problem I have with this route is that it has the same failing as Characteristics do to start with. That being by core RAW, Anyone can take these talents just like anyone can take a 5 characteristic. It makes no sense to me that a human could have a 5 brawn but something like a giant could have lower brawn. Thus you could have a human taking all the 'supernatural' talents but nothing to say the supernatural species has to. Doesn't make sense to me. JMHO

If PCs and opponents were built using the same rules, but they aren't. Opponents are built to meet the GMs needs for presenting viable opponents. That's no different than the SW system. PCs can't have Adversary, and other options that exist only for adversaries.

18 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

If PCs and opponents were built using the same rules, but they aren't. Opponents are built to meet the GMs needs for presenting viable opponents. That's no different than the SW system. PCs can't have Adversary, and other options that exist only for adversaries.

I'm not talking about NPC adversaries. This conversation is specifically relating only to PCs.

If it's just PCs then I guess if one PC has a higher Brawn than another that's just their choice. A giant I would imagine has a higher base Brawn to begin with so if they choose to be a 5 it's easier for them from an xp stand point at CHARGEN, and they take a hit on some other stat. Then in regards to what Talents people buy, if some buffer is desired you make lists of Talents available to certain Archetypes/Careers and not to others, and or available at a lower tier than other Archetype/Career. So for example maybe a giant starts with a rank of Enduring and Feral Strength as part of their Archetype, they also have access as a giant to Enduring starting at Tier 2 instead of 4 like everyone else, etc, rinse repeat.

7 hours ago, 2P51 said:

If it's just PCs then I guess if one PC has a higher Brawn than another that's just their choice. A giant I would imagine has a higher base Brawn to begin with so if they choose to be a 5 it's easier for them from an xp stand point at CHARGEN, and they take a hit on some other stat. Then in regards to what Talents people buy, if some buffer is desired you make lists of Talents available to certain Archetypes/Careers and not to others, and or available at a lower tier than other Archetype/Career. So for example maybe a giant starts with a rank of Enduring and Feral Strength as part of their Archetype, they also have access as a giant to Enduring starting at Tier 2 instead of 4 like everyone else, etc, rinse repeat.

What I'm looking at for my setting is that mortal races have a cap of 3 on all characteristics with the standard 2 in everything as normal. So mortal races will use the characteristic layouts of 1-3s. Supernatural species will be the only ones with the ability to have 4s and 5s, limited to a maximum of 2 such super-characteristics (based on the supers section). Their super-characteristics would thus be 3-5. To manage the XP cost of it, I'd use the recommendation from p251 that everyone gets 50 more XP. This will mean mortals (like humans) will be a bit more "heroic" and skilled, but it will balance the existence of supernaturals.

For instance as a rough example (giant Not fleshed out)

Human

• Characteristics: B2 / A2 / I2 / C2 / W2 / P2
• WT: 10 / ST: 10
• Starting XP: 160
• Abilities: Starting Skills (10XP), Ready for Anything (5XP)
• Total XP Cost: 235

Giant

• Characteristics: B4* / A2 / I2 / C2 / W2 / P2
• WT: 12 / ST: 10
• Starting XP: 55
• Abilities: Supernatural Attribute - Brawn (15XP), Silhouette 3 (10XP)
• Total XP Cost: 235

23 hours ago, Khaalis said:

I too agree it needs to be separated into strength and toughness. I also prefer agility to be split into dexterity and reflexes/reactions.

isnt the WoD attribute split ok for you ?

• Physical attributes:
  • Strength - raw physical strength.
  • Dexterity - speed and ease of movement, covering both full body movement (i.e. gymnastics) and hand-eye coordination.
  • Stamina - physical hardiness, including resistance to disease and physical trauma and how fast you can recover.

• Social attributes:
  • Charisma - how you come across to others socially; how you conduct yourself in public when not actively interacting with others.
  • Manipulation - how easily you bend others to your will, either through persuasion or threats.
  • Appearance - your level of attractiveness; may be raised temporarily with clothing or other adornment.

• Mental attributes:
  • Intelligence - memory and raw brain power.
  • Perception - your ability to notice things, to perceive the world around you, through all your senses.
  • Wits - quickness of thinking; measures how easily you make leaps of logic or intuition.

if you like renaming, i'd :

• Strength -> Physique
• Stamina -> Toughness
• Charisma -> Presence
• Manipulation -> Influence
• Perception -> Awareness
• Wits -> Insight
• Intelligence -> Intellect

and then add:

• Physical: Coordination/Reaction
• Social: Fellowship - ability to empathise, sympathise, and generally 'get on with people'.
• Mental: Willpower/Determination - the quality of being resolute; firmness of purpose.

whoops and we got 12 attributes ...

Why not just give the giant extra boost dice for his size. That way you can have a Brawn 3 giant and a brawn 3 human. Is the giant 1 boost die big, 2, or more? Just treat it like any other kind of mechanical bonus the character would get.

46 minutes ago, DarkIxion said:

Why not just give the giant extra boost dice for his size. That way you can have a Brawn 3 giant and a brawn 3 human. Is the giant 1 boost die big, 2, or more? Just treat it like any other kind of mechanical bonus the character would get.

and give a Mosquito 1 setback dice for Brawn, because his size 0 ?

and then give a Mosquito how many boost dice for Agility, against a Target of size 1 ?

since a Fantasy Gnome and a Mosquito are both size 0 are they on equal footing ? shurely not.

so the Silhouette Size System has it limits and for sub-human size breaks down very quickly,
and even the RAW with ± Boost/Setback die for Silhouette differences 2+ isnt that much satisfying.

BUT then Mosquitos could be represented by a Swarm ...? (CRB p188)

On 1/6/2018 at 9:54 AM, Khaalis said:

Giant

• Characteristics: B4* / A2 / I2 / C2 / W2 / P2
• WT: 12 / ST: 10
• Starting XP: 55
• Abilities: Supernatural Attribute - Brawn (15XP), Silhouette 3 (10XP)
• Total XP Cost: 235

i would use a WT of either 5+(5*Silhouette)+Brawn (=24) or 10+(Brawn*Silhouette) (=22), since the Blackwater Bestiary lists a Riding Elephant (Rival; also Size 3) at WT 26

23 hours ago, Terefang said:

i would use a WT of either 5+(5*Silhouette)+Brawn (=24) or 10+(Brawn*Silhouette) (=22), since the Blackwater Bestiary lists a Riding Elephant (Rival; also Size 3) at WT 26

I like Brawn * Silhouette. However, would this work for ALL brawn sub-stats (Damage, Encumbrance Threshold, Wound Threshold and Soak Value)?

I think it works for everything except Soak. Going by SoT, the Bantha has Br 5/Si 3 but Soak 10, and the Fambaa is Br 7/ Si 4 and Soak 16.

So should Soak be affected by Silhouette?

14 hours ago, Khaalis said:

So should Soak be affected by Silhouette?

do you need a thicker skin if you are bigger ? .... nope.

10 hours ago, Terefang said:

do you need a thicker skin if you are bigger ? .... nope.

You do indeed.... people are always teasing you about your weight! Making fat jokes... just got to learn to let it all roll off your... oh! You meant in a literal sense, than disregard.

?