8 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

I've only played team epic so far and don't own any huge ships of my own so I don't know the nitty-gritty about playing them, only in general terms but it's been glorious.

Having said that, I'd like to see Epic get it's due.

On my Epic wish list:

• The need for a FAQ for epic is foremost.
• Is there tournament support for Epic play? If not, why not?
• Missions/objective scenarios with/for Epic ships please.
• More variety of ship models and roles for them.

And one last thing: I'd like to see this thread become an analogue for the Gunboat thread. May it live for ten thousand posts.

We get an FAQ problem is that FFG only address the cancer that is competive meta. The last time they made an FAQ for Epic was the C-Roc not having a blue line for reinforce sections. Still that Esege Tuketu question is one that needs to be resolved. (Que in the two posters one saying that Huge ships do not use focus tokens whatsoever and the other side saying that there is some random email saying that it is legit)

There is also the question of double crew upgrades on sections. Can I put Wookie Commandoes on a CR-90 or do I need the Tantive V title to get that crew slot?

7 hours ago, Marinealver said:

We get an FAQ problem is that FFG only address the cancer that is competive meta. The last time they made an FAQ for Epic was the C-Roc not having a blue line for reinforce sections. Still that Esege Tuketu question is one that needs to be resolved. (Que in the two posters one saying that Huge ships do not use focus tokens whatsoever and the other side saying that there is some random email saying that it is legit)

There is also the question of double crew upgrades on sections. Can I put Wookie Commandoes on a CR-90 or do I need the Tantive V title to get that crew slot?

This is an excellent question!! Plus, what happens when 1 end gets crippled and loses its crew slot? It would seem that the Wookiees gotta go because they can't be supported. . .

51 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

This is an excellent question!! Plus, what happens when 1 end gets crippled and loses its crew slot? It would seem that the Wookiees gotta go because they can't be supported. . .

The huge ship rules are different to 'normal' (where you can, for example, junk R2-D6 without having to junk your elite upgrade at the same time). So you would have to dunk off the wookies if they can be equipped.

As to whether you can equip cards 'across' two ship cards of the same ship....it's a valid question. Double-upgrades are not all that recent a thing, but the previous case was a non-event; only the aft part of the Raider has crew slots for Palpatine.

I would rule (if asked to) that it cant be - the two ship cards are considered separate ships for a lot of purposes, and having an upgrade card in a quantum state of being attached to two ship cards that can be destroyed separately from one another just seems like rather too much effort....

The same (assuming you can get past the requirement for a focus token) could be applied to Ordnance Tubes/Unguided Rockets; you require two hardpoints (now being treated as missile slots) - if they can be 'split' across both sections, which hardpoint arc of fire does it fire out of? The easiest answer seems to be 'it doesn't'.

1 minute ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The huge ship rules are different to 'normal' (where you can, for example, junk R2-D6 without having to junk your elite upgrade at the same time). So you would have to dunk off the wookies if they can be equipped.

As to whether you can equip cards 'across' two ship cards of the same ship....it's a valid question. Double-upgrades are not all that recent a thing, but the previous case was a non-event; only the aft part of the Raider has crew slots for Palpatine.

I would rule (if asked to) that it cant be - the two ship cards are considered separate ships for a lot of purposes, and having an upgrade card in a quantum state of being attached to two ship cards that can be destroyed separately from one another just seems like rather too much effort....

The same (assuming you can get past the requirement for a focus token) could be applied to Ordnance Tubes/Unguided Rockets; you require two hardpoints (now being treated as missile slots) - if they can be 'split' across both sections, which hardpoint arc of fire does it fire out of? The easiest answer seems to be 'it doesn't'.

All you've really done is make me want the Schrodinger's Wookiees crew card. . .

To be fair, "Schrodinger's Phantom" was a phrase I saw and heard a few times before the decloaking rules were nerfed.

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

All you've really done is make me want the Schrodinger's Wookiees crew card. . .

Could we use a Porg instead?

26 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Could we use a Porg instead?

Porgs? What Porgs??

Epic FAQ update (and constantly updated). We`'re in the middle of an epic league at the moment and the latest wave changed the meta, big time.

24 minutes ago, dotswarlock said:

Epic FAQ update (and constantly updated). We`'re in the middle of an epic league at the moment and the latest wave changed the meta, big time.

All hail the gunboat!

Joking aside, yes epic is in serious need of updated faqs. Which begs the question - with the number of epic leagues going on, should we just work towards an agreed upon house rules set for the leagues until ffg actually takes the time to answer the epic faq?

4 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

All hail the gunboat!

Joking aside, yes epic is in serious need of updated faqs. Which begs the question - with the number of epic leagues going on, should we just work towards an agreed upon house rules set for the leagues until ffg actually takes the time to answer the epic faq?

It would seem a good idea to take into our own hands. . .

Thread title modified.

My faq / league proposals:

- limit the number of specific upgrade cards to mitigate spam (something like limit 4 copies in a list to prevent excessive guidance chips or tlt for example)

- decide once and for all on Esege/huge ship interaction (my vote is cannot be done)

- require epic points for an epic game (no 300 point squadrons only, unless that format is universal for a special event)

- discrepancies like how Wookiee commandos would work on a ship with crippled halves, etc.

any other balance issues that really need addressing?

4 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

- decide once and for all on Esege/huge ship interaction (my vote is cannot be done)

any other balance issues that really need addressing?

Maybe all small/huge ship interactions (Jonus, etc.) with the simple justification that command and control should go down, not up.

I feel like taking away the jonus, Roark stuff is a pretty big hit to epic ships which are already hard to make worth the points. And it's not like the cost of raider +jonus isnt locking you out of.. what is it 160 pts of generics? which are still likely to do more damage. I get that those combos seem broken but the ammount you spend to get there really is a built in reduction of power.

I like the 4 of any card limit idea.

Minimum epic points is a good call (say minimum 1 just to get at least 1 in a list)

I think splitting the crew between cards shouldn't be allowed because of the headache when one end dies (although crew on rear would still affect fore because same ship.... right?)

Quite frankly i'd be fine with any self-beneficial die modding effect (Dengar crew, Maul, Jonus, etc) to not work for huge ships unless its either A) huge ship only card to begin with or B) specifies huge ship.

Reason: its a little imbalanced atm, not really showing its true issues because the only Scum epic doesnt have a ton of guns. Scum have so many crew that beef up that ships' attack that ISNT token dependent its ridiculous. Once they get a huge ship that fires 3-4 guns a turn it'll get out of hand i guarantee it.
Rebels have some, but not that many. Han(crew) for a "focus", access to Maul if Ezra is around, and Wookiez...all are pretty decent on a CR90 considering its not just firing 1 gun.
Imps have....Palp and Jonus. Thats it (that i can think of anyway). Everything else we got involves a focus token or coordinate, which neither can help a huge ship. And who the crap uses Palp in epic? the more dice there are to mod the less useful he becomes.

Also i am totally down for the 4 copies cap rule. Sure, spam the same ship...what is it 12 times for small ships? They cant use the same upgrades though. The main reason i dont like epic is gchips/tlt spam just utterly ravage most ships without even trying. heck the last time i played my Gozanti barely even got to undock its bombers...it went from full hp + reinforce to 1hp in a single round, only surviving strictly because the last 3 ships couldnt reach it.

edit: Exception to the 4cap rule -> Titles. Far too many titles are required for the ship to even function at all let alone be a threat.

3 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Quite frankly i'd be fine with any self-beneficial die modding effect (Dengar crew, Maul, Jonus, etc) to not work for huge ships unless its either A) huge ship only card to begin with or B) specifies huge ship.

Reason: its a little imbalanced atm, not really showing its true issues because the only Scum epic doesnt have a ton of guns. Scum have so many crew that beef up that ships' attack that ISNT token dependent its ridiculous. Once they get a huge ship that fires 3-4 guns a turn it'll get out of hand i guarantee it.
Rebels have some, but not that many. Han(crew) for a "focus", access to Maul if Ezra is around, and Wookiez...all are pretty decent on a CR90 considering its not just firing 1 gun.
Imps have....Palp and Jonus. Thats it (that i can think of anyway). Everything else we got involves a focus token or coordinate, which neither can help a huge ship. And who the crap uses Palp in epic? the more dice there are to mod the less useful he becomes.

Also i am totally down for the 4 copies cap rule. Sure, spam the same ship...what is it 12 times for small ships? They cant use the same upgrades though. The main reason i dont like epic is gchips/tlt spam just utterly ravage most ships without even trying. heck the last time i played my Gozanti barely even got to undock its bombers...it went from full hp + reinforce to 1hp in a single round, only surviving strictly because the last 3 ships couldnt reach it.

That's a good argument to keep maul in epic, that 50pt HLT croc is pretty trash. Add maul it's a 53pt slow moving 4dice with rerolls and a range one safe zone. That's not broken.

Maul on a cr90 is like 180pts once you account for Ezra to get 4?5? Rerolled attacks out of some real P.I.T.A. arcs to aim. Both of those will likely die faster to equal points of generic ships even with free rerolls.

Hence why i said "Once they get a huge ship that fires 3-4 guns a turn it'll get out of hand"

The C-ROC is not a gunship. Outfitting it with the expensive but powerful scum crew to give it a more reliable gun is kinda pointless. But if they had something akin to the Raider in terms of number of shots, oh boy...

I can only think balance around what we have. We dont know if a scum gunship is even coming. Or what it will have available. If it was a max 3 shots gunship it would be fine. 5 like you say would get crazy.

But to pull it from rotation for our little community faq because of a what if ship seems excessive. Maybe we should put a pin in that change and revisit if/when the scum epic shows? But its still worth keeping in mind for auch a time.

53 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

My faq / league proposals:

- limit the number of specific upgrade cards to mitigate spam (something like limit 4 copies in a list to prevent excessive guidance chips or tlt for example)

- decide once and for all on Esege/huge ship interaction (my vote is cannot be done)

- require epic points for an epic game (no 300 point squadrons only, unless that format is universal for a special event)

- discrepancies like how Wookiee commandos would work on a ship with crippled halves, etc.

any other balance issues that really need addressing?

We're on our third epic league, and my advice is this:

- Clarify rules and interactions as you see fit.

- Be careful about restrictions / custom rules. It does not "fix" the meta. Instead, it throws it in drastically different directions. We had custom rules to try and "help" people to use huge ships is past years. This years, we're making the use of one huge ship mandatory and observing carefully.

So far for this third year, we have observed the following:

- Raider with harpoon missiles is very popular

- So is swarms with harppon or cruise missiles

- Since the new wave came in, bombs with trajectory simulator is throwing everything upside down (rushing in with a swarm of TLTs or missiles is a bad idea).

27 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

Maul on a cr90 is like 180pts once you account for Ezra to get 4?5? Rerolled attacks out of some real P.I.T.A. arcs to aim. Both of those will likely die faster to equal points of generic ships even with free rerolls.

I just won a game 300 to 66 with a Maul CR90. Those generics had a problem facing B/SF-17 lobbing proton bombs and Nym lobbing bomblet generator bombs in the corridor that they were using (trajectory simulator). Nym deployed at PS8 and the bomber at PS12 thanks to hyperwave comcaster. The rest of my escort just ran interference while the CR90 was throwing 6 hits around thanks to Jan Ors, Maul and Han (crew).

Huh maybe that comes down to flying then cause my Cygnus display squadron (gozanti with protocols and gun, omicron lambda HLC 8 nus with manglers and flechettes) munched a trajectory list and a maul cr90 list recently (admittedly not at the same time I haven't seen those two combod yet)

2 hours ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

That's a good argument to keep maul in epic, that 50pt HLT croc is pretty trash. Add maul it's a 53pt slow moving 4dice with rerolls and a range one safe zone. That's not broken.

Maul on a cr90 is like 180pts once you account for Ezra to get 4?5? Rerolled attacks out of some real P.I.T.A. arcs to aim. Both of those will likely die faster to equal points of generic ships even with free rerolls.

Now put Dengar (crew) in a similar situation - Free Re-rolls for every shot fired? 3pts

2 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

require epic points for an epic game (no 300 point squadrons only, unless that format is universal for a special event)

As a guide we have brackets for our Galactic Civil War scenarios (was Reb v Imp only)

0 Epic points/200+ points

Epic Dogfight - no huge ships allowed

2 Epic points/200+ points

The Imperial player must take a Gozanti-class Cruiser; the Rebel player must take a GR-75 Medium Transport

3 Epic points/300+ points

The Imperial player must take a Raider-class corv.; the Rebel player must take a CR90 Corvette

5 Epic points/400+ points

The Imperial player must take a Gozanti-class Cruiser and Raider-class corv.; the Rebel player must take a GR-75 Medium Transport and CR90 Corvette.

Worked for us but ship selection was also filtered according to the era of the war.

Bumped in the name of fun!

I finally played in an epic tournament, flying 2 Gozantis and 8 Alpha Squadron Interceptors.

A hard limit of 4 on a particular upgrade card (in my case it was Autothrusters) would be very annoying.

Putting a limit of 4 on any individual munitions-associated card (actual munitions cards; guidance chips; bombs; anything else?) and turrets might be worth applying.

Also, Maul is certainly under-priced on the CR90, even with the Ezra tax. A CR90 kitted out with the energy wepaons of your choice (Single Turbolasers seem best to me, to kill enemies before they ever get to shoot you) and Maul, with Esege (unless you declare that his focus tokens don't work too), Roark, and Jan Ors in their HWKs (and then add Finn crew and supercharged power cells), can do an enormous amount of damage, wiping out any other huge ship far too easily.

Taking Maul away effectively halves the damage output.

Quick question, are nerfed cards nerfed in epic play or is that just 100/6 nonsense? I know there is 0 reason to nerf Palp in epic but something like the jump master, is that in need of tweaks for large scale war?