5 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

As Daronil noted, the vast majority of replies to your so-called plot holes came from simply paying attention to the movie, and engaging your brain for a few seconds, long enough to connect the dots.

It's not the director's fault of the viewer has the attention span of a ADD-riddled gnat and can't be bothered to connect a series of very simple dots without it being spoon-fed to them.

I see no reason to be personally insulting. I have insulted the movie, not anyone who liked it. I've reported you. If people can't argue over the movie without insulting they clearly need to push back and take a break.

10 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

I see no reason to be personally insulting. I have insulted the movie, not anyone who liked it. I've reported you. If people can't argue over the movie without insulting they clearly need to push back and take a break.

If you want to take a general comment about how the "fandom" in general is reacting as a personal insult, that's your decision.

Doesn't change that a number of questions, such as the ones you posted, that have been labeled as "plot holes" can be very easily answered by viewing the film and occasionally engaging one's brain to derive the answers. Those aren't plot holes, those are just the viewer not paying attention or not willing to put a modicum of thought into answering the questions themselves.

Rian Johnson chose to make a film that was more "show, don't tell" and assume the general viewing audience was reasonably intelligent and could connect the major dots on their own, as opposed to the general Hollywood trend to assume the general viewing audience of big budget movies are uneducated morons and either spell everything out or simplify it, as noted under the TV Tropes entry Viewers Are Morons.

Just now, Donovan Morningfire said:

If you want to take a general comment about how the "fandom" in general is reacting as a personal insult, that's your decision.

Doesn't change that a number of questions, such as the ones you posted, that have been labeled as "plot holes" can be very easily answered by viewing the film and occasionally engaging one's brain to derive the answers. Those aren't plot holes, those are just the viewer not paying attention or not willing to put a modicum of thought into answering the questions themselves.

Rian Johnson chose to make a film that was more "show, don't tell" and assume the general viewing audience was reasonably intelligent and could connect the major dots on their own, as opposed to the general Hollywood trend to assume the general viewing audience of big budget movies are uneducated morons and either spell everything out or simplify it, as noted under the TV Tropes entry Viewers Are Morons.

You quoted me DM, you can hedge all you like, you're reported.

8 hours ago, 2P51 said:

I see no reason to be personally insulting. I have insulted the movie, not anyone who liked it. I've reported you. If people can't argue over the movie without insulting they clearly need to push back and take a break.

Horse puckey. Remember this?

"The movie is disliked by more than some shadowy troll bot cabal despite what the overly emotional here might assert.

Feel free to track on box office mojo if you like, unless that's considered another den of heresy by the devout...."

That was just 8 days ago that you threw that out. You throw out a crack like "overly emotional" and compare people who like the movie to being in a cult, and then you throw a hissy fit? Please. You are just mad as Donovan laid it out.

Feel free to report me as well.

19 hours ago, HorusArisen said:

I think I’ve found a flaw in TLJ...it assumes to much about its audiences intelligence.

In tbe world where reality TV exists maybe films should be...simplified, with cue cards and such.

Cue cards require reading, so those are out. Personal helper to explain each scene to you.

On 1/4/2018 at 1:22 AM, DanteRotterdam said:

Ok, since many people seem to be confused and/or unable/unwilling to understand some of the basic concepts at play here, I will show my work.

The speed of light is roughly 300 million meters per second. We will assume a notional hyperspace weapon travels only at the speed of light in spite of the fact that hyperspace is canonically MUCH faster than that because the numbers get silly basically instantly when you assume a speed of travel equivalent to what it would take to cross the galaxy in a few weeks. Multiply 3x10^9 by say, a 20-kiloton X-Wing, you get a 3 trillion Newton impact. That is roughly a MILLION TONS of TNT. For readers of Shlock Mercenary or books by John Ringo, that is about 4 petajoules of energy. Roughly as powerful than the most powerful thermonuclear weapon in active service.

We have never seen the explosion of a proton torpedo in canon but it is safe to say they are more in the shield-penetrating blockbuster category rather than well over the Independence Day-style city killer level. So even the smallest hyperspace impact would completely vaporize a not only a normal Star Destroyer but a Super Star Destroyer as well. From what is seen in the Clownhair Collision, one can assume that most of the energy was lost due to it being a glancing blow. A purpose-built weapon would likely be more accurate. Also, a direct nonelastic impact of that energy would be closer to a supernova in magnitude. Not very healthy for escaping shuttles... or anyone else in the entire sector.

Assuming my Notional Hyperspace Weapon skipped the expensive armaments, life support, and shields of an X-Wing and used a low-grade hyperdrive coupled to a fairly smart astrogational targeting device along with some basic realspace thrusters for ease of handling prior to deployment, the NHW could probably be built for abut 10k credits if a hardscrabble Resistance was cobbling them together out of spare parts. Jack that up for military hardware ruggedization and bunny horse mistreatment costs say, 200%, and you can still buy five of them for the price of an X-Wing. I don't know how much all two of those TIE fighters that the FO lost on the initial attack on the Resistance fleet cost, but it is likely more than the one NHW it would have taken to obliterate it.

Add the cost of a Holonet transceiver to the weapon, and you can store them undetectably in deep space and transmit targeting information via the Holonet. Have a spy plant a homing beacon for 100% accuracy. No warning of impact, sorry Alderaan, no time to raise planetary shields. With the aforementioned beacon you could even time your strike to zip in through a gate in an always-up shield over a military target a la the ill-fated Blue Squadron of Rogue One. Parts and technical crew for the forest moon? Add a side of superluminal devastation with that to avoid all that messy business with the Ewoks.

If we are imputing that a hyperspace impact can only occur at the time of entry into hyperspace and Admiral Clownhair is a astronavigational prodigy, then the NHW can be programmed to drop out of hyperspace briefly at the appropriate distance before re-entering to begin it's final run. As it's sensor cross-section is the same size or even smaller than a snubfighter (less if we equip it with basic stealth abilities) it is highly unlikely that any countermeasures might be employed to prevent its impact in time.

I am also confused as to how the astrotropes article "fairly neatly dispose"s of the planet-killer argument, it seems to (correctly) say that there is more than enough energy in even a non-superluminal collision to destroy a planet. What is the disposing-ing angle here I am missing?

As handwaving objections away because I am just a hater, for the record I rather liked the Prequels. Young Manakin Skywalker and Jar-Jar were a bit annoying, and the Naberrie Fields Forever scene was a jarring change of pace in otherwise pretty good movies. I even thought that without Mary Sue, Ep7 woud have been a five star movie. Until now, Mary Sue was the only thing I ever complained about in Star Wars. Ep8 is a whole other ball of wax. Rather than a great movie with one bad character, they back off of her drama-destroying Sue-ness (rather nicely actually, Reylo was the one storyline I actually enjoyed) only to replace it with a Jawa crawler load of other bad writing.

Lastly, apologies to any SJWs that I have triggered by poking fun at the audience pandering involved in the Holdo costuming choices. I was under the impression one was allowed to poke fun at badly written characters, or is it just that only anti-orange frog discrimination is ok?

Some useful reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_yield

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/ (wherein the effect of superluminal weaponry, i.e. the "Long Gun", on dramatic tension is addressed)

25 minutes ago, TheJrade said:

Lastly, apologies to any SJWs that I have triggered by poking fun at the audience pandering involved in the Holdo costuming choices.

Go demonstrate against the removal if confederate statues.

2 hours ago, TheJrade said:

Really curious what was so obtuse even you decided to remove it.

1 hour ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Go demonstrate against the removal if confederate statues.

I bet he owns some tiki torches.

On 2018-01-04 at 3:52 AM, SEApocalypse said:

It has been suggested before in legends and iirc in current canon as well that the death star was a weapon to keep the core worlds with their massively powerful planetary shields in line. Shields supposed to be magnitudes stronger than even gigantomania Supremanany defenses. Which did not evaporate either from the hyperspace attack of a giant over 3km long "hyperspace missile".

Which means that an imperial shuttle at light speed will not obliterate a planet with shields just fine. Meanwhile there are canon examples how a cruiser can even accidently obliterate a planet indeed with his hyperspace engine. But that does not cover the problem with the Death Star exist to solve, which would be planetary shields. Obliterating a whole planet within a day (or maybe in new canon a little more) can be done already by orbital bombardment by basically ANY star destroyer. You don't need to waste perfectly fine 100,000 credits for that when a little bit of tibanna gas for the turbolasers will do the job AND keeps system free of lethal hypermatter radiation on top. Furthermore, you need most likely something bigger … something which has enough firepower to do the job with orbital bombardment already just fine. So saving a 100,000,000 credits star destroyer and instead just waste the planet in a conventional DBZ operation seems the better solution.

The shields would indeed be a problem if it wasn't for TFA, where Solo showed that you can just hyperspace through a shield just fine. So planetary shields apparently doesn't block something in hyperspace.

1 hour ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Go demonstrate against the removal if confederate statues.

It never fails to amuse me when Alt-Leftists do the "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" thing in real time. I wonder if they will ever realize calling everyone a racist all day erry day makes them sound awfully silly.

6 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

The shields would indeed be a problem if it wasn't for TFA, where Solo showed that you can just hyperspace through a shield just fine. So planetary shields apparently doesn't block something in hyperspace.

True, the Sequel Trilogy is proving to be pretty hard on the canon isn't it? That said, I got the feeling that sneaking through the shield's "fractional refresh rate" was something one had to be Han Solo in the fastest hunka junk in the galaxy to accomplish. Or perhaps just saturate a target with hundreds (thousands?) of cheap NHWs. It really only takes one.

6 minutes ago, TheJrade said:

Alt-Leftists

stop trying to make 'fetch' happen, it's not going to happen

58 minutes ago, TheJrade said:

It never fails to amuse me when Alt-Leftists do the "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" thing in real time. I wonder if they will ever realize calling everyone a racist all day erry day makes them sound awfully silly.

Posts rightwing talking points gets upset for being labeled rightwing.

The fact you use alt left unironically is about as big a red flag as possible.

Can’t we leave the weird politics at the door and keep our discussions (or even arguments about the game/setting?

If it’s descending into insults then no one is contributing.

As to hyperspace through shields you will again note that it’s pretty much considered impossible till Han does it. I think we’re safe to surmise it requires plot power to pull off and not every tom, **** or harry will do it.

1 hour ago, Darth Revenant said:

The shields would indeed be a problem if it wasn't for TFA, where Solo showed that you can just hyperspace through a shield just fine. So planetary shields apparently doesn't block something in hyperspace.

Well, from Han's comments it sounds like that sort of trick (getting past planetary shields via hyperspace) is incredibly difficult to pull off, with a high chance of screwing it up and coming to a bad end. His answer to Leia about how he was going to get past that shield was "You wouldn't like it."

Of course, Han is a highly experienced pilot, with several ranks in Astrogation and Piloting (Space) making him more likely to have a chance of pulling off stunts like that, or even jumping to hyperspace from inside the hanger of another ship, without turning the Falcon into a literal hunk of junk.

2 minutes ago, HorusArisen said:

Can’t we leave the weird politics at the door and keep our discussions (or even arguments about the game/setting?

I mean there's one person who keeps bringing in their politicized hatred of women again and again.

I'm not gonna silently ignore bigotry.

15 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

I mean there's one person who keeps bringing in their politicized hatred of women again and again.

I'm not gonna silently ignore bigotry.

Your not going to beat it on a message board man, your just giving it a platform.

All the politics will just ruin your gaming enjoyment. I’m not telling you what to do though.

1 minute ago, HorusArisen said:

Your not going to beat it on a message board man, your just giving it a platform.

I'm not trying to beat the other person, though, I'm setting an example against their evil.

Just consider the different effects of ducking your head and staying silent when you encounter harassment in public, and instead speaking out against it right then and there and intervening.

6 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

I'm not trying to beat the other person, though, I'm setting an example against their evil.

Just consider the different effects of ducking your head and staying silent when you encounter harassment in public, and instead speaking out against it right then and there and intervening.

You do what you gotta do. I certainly support the message.

6 hours ago, TheJrade said:

It never fails to amuse me when Alt-Leftists do the "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" thing in real time. I wonder if they will ever realize calling everyone a racist all day erry day makes them sound awfully silly.

There is still no such thing as an alt-left. No amount of you spouting nonsense change this.

You are still right about people being to quick calling alt right people nazi's when they are a mix of nazi's, facists, white supremacy guys and naturally a good dash of NEO nazis. Or in other words, they are the same kind of dumb as the first order.
The nazi had a coherent ideology. That is something which is totally lacking for the alt right. From people hating nazi's, but loving autoriarism to hitler worshippers you get the full spectrum. The fact remains that they are marching together with their tiki torches.

44 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

You are still right about people being to quick calling alt right people nazi's when they are a mix of nazi's, facists, white supremacy guys and naturally a good dash of NEO nazis.

How do we know Jrade is an alt-righter? Alt-righters aren't the only people who have a problem with social justice activism.

There are also the Dave Chappelles of the world, who don't have a right-wing bone in their bodies but also have no interest in obeying PC taboos.

Not everyone falls into two neat and tidy categories.

Anyway, I'm with Horus. Better to keep culture wars out of our Star Wars roleplaying fun. Of course it was Jrade who started the whole political fight, so I don't really blame others for responding in kind.

8 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

How do we know Jrade is an alt-righter?

By his words.