Also, do we really need two threads to complain about why Vice Admiral Redshirt didnt tell a subordinate officer what their evacuation plans were?

1 hour ago, coyote6 said:

Also, Luke's X-wing had been sitting underwater for years, and he had no astromech; it's not clear he could have physically gotten anywhere useful in time.

With one of the S-foils scrapped to make the door to his hut.

1 hour ago, Desslok said:

Also, do we really need two threads to complain about why Vice Admiral Redshirt didnt tell a subordinate officer what their evacuation plans were?

Demoted or not, he’s still the CAG. Doesn’t mean I care whether or not they told him, but everyone cares so much about his rank they forget that rank isn’t necessarily important to ones duties in the military.

(The obvious and next point is that he doesn’t have a flight group anymore)

That still doesn’t remove his position as CAG. Only by directly replacing him in the position would he have been effectively out of the chain of command. That said, there may have been other reasons; unsure if there is a mole, didn’t like him, it was a tense situation, she was filling in and didn’t have the luxury of running everything by her command staff etc etc.

I don’t need to debate it, I get where each side is coming from. But we cannot talk about military positions and ranks as if they are synonymous.

I guess we do need two threads to complain about Goose and Admiral Redshirt. . . . .

2 minutes ago, Desslok said:

I guess we do need two threads to complain about Goose and Admiral Redshirt. . . . .

He doesn’t even get maverick?

4 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

He doesn’t even get maverick?

Why would you compare anyone to Tom Cruise?

18 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Why would you compare anyone to Tom Cruise?

Iceman it is.

3 hours ago, Desslok said:

Also, do we really need two threads to complain about why Vice Admiral Redshirt didnt tell a subordinate officer what their evacuation plans were?

Given the way this fandom operates, probably do.

Maybe I'm showing my age, but I miss the days when folks could watch a movie and just simply enjoy the movie for what it was without trying to apply logic or rationalize various details or just overthinking every little aspect of what is frankly a popcorn movie.

Especially when the original films that started this franchise all fall about just as quickly (if not more so) under the same kind of scrutiny that the newest films are being put under.

10 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

The bombs start out under Earth-level gravity on the ship. Why in the whole wide world of sports would they stop moving once they leave the confines of the ship?

It's that kind of nonsensical, willfully blind complaint that has people dismissive of much of the criticism here. Either you haven't thought through what you saw, or you're not being honest about it.

If the bombs fall using earth level gravity they accelerate at a rate of 9.81 meters per second, if you estimate 30 foot between the bottom of the bomb rack and the outside of the ship they will have a velocity of around 36 kilometres per hour when they enter space and accelerate no further.

A granny in a Skoda could overtake these bombs.

Space ships can cross a solar system using sublight engines, even a star destroyer could accelerate (in any direction) faster than those bombs could "fall" in space.

The only reason the resistance used bombers was because the director decided he wanted WW2 style bombers in his movie, there is no logical reason behind it.

18 minutes ago, mulletcheese said:

If the bombs fall using earth level gravity they accelerate at a rate of 9.81 meters per second, if you estimate 30 foot between the bottom of the bomb rack and the outside of the ship they will have a velocity of around 36 kilometres per hour when they enter space and accelerate no further.

A granny in a Skoda could overtake these bombs.

Space ships can cross a solar system using sublight engines, even a star destroyer could accelerate (in any direction) faster than those bombs could "fall" in space.

The only reason the resistance used bombers was because the director decided he wanted WW2 style bombers in his movie, there is no logical reason behind it.

Exactly. Like most areas of the film it was a sacrifice of content for plot. That was why I went to some length to discuss ways in which the same plot objectives could have been reached with less problematic elements, but I’m afraid it’s a less than receptive audience. People who do not have open minds do not make for good discussions. Thanks for bringing some sanity back to the otherwise toxic discussion.

26 minutes ago, mulletcheese said:

The only reason the resistance used bombers was because the director decided he wanted WW2 style bombers in his movie, there is no logical reason behind it.

Imagine!

This is Star Wars! It doesn’t take inspiration from WW II vehicles! I mean, the only thing worse would be if that hack of a director used footage from WW II movies to block out a space battle or two. Geez...don’t these guys think we have brains in our heads?

?

41 minutes ago, mulletcheese said:

If the bombs fall using earth level gravity they accelerate at a rate of 9.81 meters per second, if you estimate 30 foot between the bottom of the bomb rack and the outside of the ship they will have a velocity of around 36 kilometres per hour when they enter space and accelerate no further.

This. Is. A. Star. Wars. Movie.

1 hour ago, mulletcheese said:

The only reason the resistance used bombers was because the director decided he wanted WW2 style bombers in his movie, there is no logical reason behind it.

I take it that you've never seen Episode IV then? Here, let me explain how those B17s are consistent what what has come before:

1 hour ago, mulletcheese said:

If the bombs fall using earth level gravity they accelerate at a rate of 9.81 meters per second, if you estimate 30 foot between the bottom of the bomb rack and the outside of the ship they will have a velocity of around 36 kilometres per hour when they enter space and accelerate no further.

Also, you do realize that this is a movie about Kung Fu Monks with laser swords that can lift rocks and ships with the power of their mind, right?

1 hour ago, Khazadune said:

People who do not have open minds do not make for good discussions.

You are right. Just not in the way you think.

On 12/31/2017 at 1:11 PM, HorusArisen said:

Also the First Order =/= The Empire.

Its stated at the beginning of the film they are consolidating power after destroying the New Republic. Since we know from the canon novels that many sectors will have their own fleets and military the majority of the First Orders navy could well be tied up elsewhere.

With Hux expectant of an easy, if delayed, victory why move forces from elsewhere.

So why not say that in the movie? Good plots don't need these things justified by fans in forums after the fact, good plots do it on the screen.

On 1/1/2018 at 3:25 AM, Daronil said:

Umm...if they're going to criticise it, they should at least make an attempt to listen to the dialogue where all of these questions were answered.

It was explicitly stated that the FO fleet could not cover the fighters at that range, which is why Ren withdrew after blowing the bridge on the Raddus . They can only "ping" them because at that range (which is maintained because, as the FO commander stated, the Resistance ships are faster) the FO weapons are ineffective against the Resistance ships' shields.

Finally, the Resistance ships couldn't just jump ahead. Even a microjump would have put the FO ships light hours ahead of the Resistance fleet, and it's in space - they're not traveling on a highway. The Resistance ships weren't just traveling in a straight line, they were manouvering - that's why the shots from the FO ships seemed to arc.

Why would they need cover? They were kicking their asses. They'd blown up the bridge of the command ship.

26 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Why would they need cover? They were kicking their asses. They'd blown up the bridge of the command ship.

Because the Resistance frigates were fine and had weapons that benefited from the starfighter defense rule (EotE core 267).

Seriously dude, look at the rules once in a while.

49 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

So why not say that in the movie? Good plots don't need these things justified by fans in forums after the fact, good plots do it on the screen.

They do say that in the movie...it’s in the opening crawl.

5 minutes ago, HorusArisen said:

They do say that in the movie...it’s in the opening crawl.

Episode VIII

The FIRST ORDER reigns.

Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys his merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy.

But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape....

Sure reads to me like the 1st Order is large and in charge and the Resistance is all that's left.

1 hour ago, 2P51 said:

So why not say that in the movie? Good plots don't need these things justified by fans in forums after the fact, good plots do it on the screen.

“ Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys his merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy.”

Key words here deploys to seize. Not in control of. The Empire was a ruling force the First Order is an invading one.

If everything has to be spelled out it’s going to be a very dull .

Wouldn't wiping out the last armed resistance be at the top of the "seize" list?

Just now, 2P51 said:

Wouldn't wiping out the last armed resistance be at the top of the "seize" list?

No. The resistance are in essence a terrorist cell weirdly enough.

I’d say at the top of an invading forces list would be to suppress and control sector government and military forces.

Not saying you have to see it my way but that’s how I read it.

And just because I loved the film doesn’t mean you have to.

Where does it tell me that? Is that in the opening crawl too or did they hand out a pamphlet I didn't get when I watched this?

Which part? The resistance as a terrorist group? Watch The Force Awakens again. They were operating outside of but with clandestine support of the Republic.

The other part is simple military strategy in my opinion but it’s just my opinion.