So hows this for a defender list?

I figured ryad can rid stress easy enough with green u-turns so would benefit more from engine the twin ions.

lambda only there to make sure vessery gets his lock on.

PILOTS

Colonel Vessery (37)
TIE Defender (35), Push the Limit (3), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Countess Ryad (39)
TIE Defender (34), Push the Limit (3), TIE/x7 (-2), Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (24)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), ST-321 (3)

Vessery does not need push the limit. I would trade that for Veteran Instincts and hull upgrade since he's always the first target.

Also, you would be much better off with an assault gunboat as your third ship. A Nu pilot with harpoons & long-range scanners is only 22 points (or 24 with extra munitions) and far superior to the lambda...

I'll agree that PTL on Vessery isn't strong. His greens are weak (even with TIE Mk.II). Other Elite upgrades I've liked with Vessery are Juke (which either punishes opponents for spending focus offensively, or allows Vessery to strip them for other attackers), Intensity (Barrel Roll to get a focus to pair with your 3-speed Evade. It adds considerable wiggle to where your defender can fly and still have double-tokens), Expertise (which allows you to save Focus for Defense--also, you'll need Mk.IIs if you take this), and maybe even Outmaneuver (which might be more fun than good, but it's nifty).

Speaking of TIE Mk. II, they need to be on Countess. If she's going to PTL, she'll probably need Mk. IIs. Having Green Banks as well as straight/K is, in my mind, a lot nicer than boosting.

I'll second some kind of Gunboat. Having a long-range TL source isn't necessarily going to be needed, since Countess presumably will be taking TL to share with Vessery a lot of the time. It might be worth considering Homing Missile instead of Harpoon. Both have the same damage on the initial hit, but Homing will be stronger at pushing through damage against something with Evade tokens like an Asajj Ventress. Harpoon has it's strength, however.

//

Here's another version of a similar list. There's points to spare, so I figured Seismic Torpedos might be interesting. Defenders have a small number of effective moves on their dial, and blowing up asteroids at key moments might be quite handy. Extra Munitions would be solid, however. Probably better. But just putting out ideas. Another option would be to upgrade to a Rho with Adaptability. It'd match Countess in PS, and outskill many other Gunboats.

Total 99 pts:

Nu Squadron Pilot [Seismic Torpedo, Homing Missiles, Long Range Scanners] (25)

Countess Ryad [Push the Limit, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II] (36)

Colonel Vessery [Expertise, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II] (38)

Som good advice, a lot of things I never though about which is why its so great to ask here

Ill tinker around with a star wing and see how it goes!

16 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Speaking of TIE Mk. II, they need to be on Countess. If she's going to PTL, she'll probably need Mk. IIs.

Countess Ryad [Push the Limit, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II] (36)

I absolutely support this. Having the green banks is worth so much on her.

Colonel Vessery (35)
Juke (2)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Countess Ryad (34)
Push the Limit (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Expertise (4)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I’ll be flying this at regionals. The Vessery/Ryad loadout is pretty standard loadouts. I still believe Juke is the best EPT for Vessery. The LRS on the Gunboat will give you the same effect as your Lambda build, but also give you a Harpoon that is going to get 4 hits every time. Rho’s also tend to outperform Nu’s when head to head. So you got the benefit too.

23 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

Colonel Vessery (35)
Juke (2)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Countess Ryad (34)
Push the Limit (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Expertise (4)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 100

That's a really strong list. One slight tweak I'd want to test - Vessery on Crack Shot and Twin Ion Engines Mk. II instead of Juke. Not sure if it's better or worse, but I'd want to test it to be sure.

8 hours ago, fruitcakebat said:

That's a really strong list. One slight tweak I'd want to test - Vessery on Crack Shot and Twin Ion Engines Mk. II instead of Juke. Not sure if it's better or worse, but I'd want to test it to be sure.

Juke is there so the opponent will have to make difficult choices when saving tokens against the Rho for later.

23 hours ago, fruitcakebat said:

That's a really strong list. One slight tweak I'd want to test - Vessery on Crack Shot and Twin Ion Engines Mk. II instead of Juke. Not sure if it's better or worse, but I'd want to test it to be sure.

TIE Mk.II are a valid tech choice if you're facing a lot of stress control, but except against stress, it won't really add anything. If I were only spending 1 point on an Elite for Vessery, I think I'd either go VI, or else A Score To Settle and take a bid. ASTS seems interesting to pair with Harpoon, since it provides a source of crits. On Vessery who already gets TL rerolls, having a soft-focus can often allow him to save a focus for defense, which is strong with 3 green dice. Of course, if the enemy with A Debt to Pay is attacking Vessery, it allows them to save their focus for defense.

Alternately, I might sacrifice Expertise from the Rho if I really want TIE Mk.IIs. A cheaper Elite upgrade like VI or Crack Shot would also be strong on a Rho, and the spare points could be placed in Extra Munitions or Seismic Torpedos (or maybe the title, but you won't really have great action economy for it). Expertise is going to be nice, since it'll allow the Rho to keep focus for defense and be more likely to get a shot off, but it's certainly an expensive upgrade.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

TIE Mk.II are a valid tech choice if you're facing a lot of stress control, but except against stress, it won't really add anything. If I were only spending 1 point on an Elite for Vessery, I think I'd either go VI, or else A Score To Settle and take a bid. ASTS seems interesting to pair with Harpoon, since it provides a source of crits. On Vessery who already gets TL rerolls, having a soft-focus can often allow him to save a focus for defense, which is strong with 3 green dice. Of course, if the enemy with A Debt to Pay is attacking Vessery, it allows them to save their focus for defense.

Alternately, I might sacrifice Expertise from the Rho if I really want TIE Mk.IIs. A cheaper Elite upgrade like VI or Crack Shot would also be strong on a Rho, and the spare points could be placed in Extra Munitions or Seismic Torpedos (or maybe the title, but you won't really have great action economy for it). Expertise is going to be nice, since it'll allow the Rho to keep focus for defense and be more likely to get a shot off, but it's certainly an expensive upgrade.

I never like VI on Defenders. Their K-turns give you enough time on target and all you’re doing is giving your opponents more chances to block you, especially after the nerf.

5 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

I never like VI on Defenders. Their K-turns give you enough time on target and all you’re doing is giving your opponents more chances to block you, especially after the nerf.

I can see that as a general presumption. I don't mind in a few lists, where you might want to boost someone in particular (Vessery + Omega Leader, perhaps), but that makes sense.

I think I'm mostly saying I don't really value Crack Shot too highly on a Defender. They're tanky enough that they're unlikely to get removed before they've gotten full value from other, more costly Elite upgrades. Crack Shot works best when you've got a small time-window to extract value from the points invested in an Elite upgrade. Black Squadron Pilots, most notably. When you've got more time, things like Juke and Predator and Expertise will add more value over the course of a game. That said, I never really played much of the old 3x Crack Glaive list. It might change my perspective, but with their defensive stat line and free evades, I feel like Defenders don't need to try to frontload the value with Crack Shot.

On 12/31/2017 at 0:19 PM, Tbetts94 said:

Colonel Vessery (35)
Juke (2)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Countess Ryad (34)
Push the Limit (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Expertise (4)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I’ll be flying this at regionals. The Vessery/Ryad loadout is pretty standard loadouts. I still believe Juke is the best EPT for Vessery. The LRS on the Gunboat will give you the same effect as your Lambda build, but also give you a Harpoon that is going to get 4 hits every time. Rho’s also tend to outperform Nu’s when head to head. So you got the benefit too.

I think I'd rather have expertise on Vessery. You can focus/evade and use that defensively every turn. It makes him very offensive and very defensive. Since the Rho has LRS, you can focus and already have a TL for full dice mods anyway. You will probably get more out of crack shot or VI. Or, you could do A score to settle and put the title on the gunboat. Slam and shoot

3 minutes ago, Biggsy_boy said:

I think I'd rather have expertise on Vessery. You can focus/evade and use that defensively every turn. It makes him very offensive and very defensive. Since the Rho has LRS, you can focus and already have a TL for full dice mods anyway. You will probably get more out of crack shot or VI. Or, you could do A score to settle and put the title on the gunboat. Slam and shoot

Expertise on Vessery means he’s effected even more by stress control giving him a target on his back. With all three having an element that is effected by stress control slightly it really gives the opponent no good options to focus on. With Expertise on the Gunboat, every chance the opponent tries shooting at it, it has a focus for Defense and can slam away, where the other two targets would have a Focus/Evade, providing another situation where there are no good and easy targets. This also allows Vessery to have Juke which is just gold with Ryad and a Harpoon shooting next. Expertise Vessery is only seen without Tie/D’s mostly.

28 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I can see that as a general presumption. I don't mind in a few lists, where you might want to boost someone in particular (Vessery + Omega Leader, perhaps), but that makes sense.

I think I'm mostly saying I don't really value Crack Shot too highly on a Defender. They're tanky enough that they're unlikely to get removed before they've gotten full value from other, more costly Elite upgrades. Crack Shot works best when you've got a small time-window to extract value from the points invested in an Elite upgrade. Black Squadron Pilots, most notably. When you've got more time, things like Juke and Predator and Expertise will add more value over the course of a game. That said, I never really played much of the old 3x Crack Glaive list. It might change my perspective, but with their defensive stat line and free evades, I feel like Defenders don't need to try to frontload the value with Crack Shot.

I agree with everything. Crack Shot Trip Defenders I think is more of a style choice. The value of Crack rises when they’re multiplied so they are just at a spot where alpha-ing a ship is about useful as the other options.

9 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Expertise on Vessery means he’s effected even more by stress control giving him a target on his back. With all three having an element that is effected by stress control slightly it really gives the opponent no good options to focus on. With Expertise on the Gunboat, every chance the opponent tries shooting at it, it has a focus for Defense and can slam away, where the other two targets would have a Focus/Evade, providing another situation where there are no good and easy targets. This also allows Vessery to have Juke which is just gold with Ryad and a Harpoon shooting next. Expertise Vessery is only seen without Tie/D’s mostly.

That's a fair point. However, if I was going up against it, I would focus on the gunboat and get rid of the torp first, than Ryad. Vessery is not as scary as an end game ship. I think the gunboat would be the easiest one to take off the table. My thought is the less points on it, the better.

Ahh Defender romances. Vessery and Ryad go together like chocolate and peanut butter, and are as sweet as the two as well.

While I'm not too keen on how well a gunboat perform, I do know a thing or two about TIE/SFs. And I won a small tournament with this list. Everybody is slim and trim, but it all fits and it worked well for me. Albeit looking at it now, Vess and BD could use better EPTs if it could be afforded.

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Backdraft" (27)

Trick Shot (0)

Fire Control System (2)

Lightweight Frame (2)

Special Ops Training (0)

TIE Defender: · Countess Ryad (34)

Push The Limit (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/x7 (-2)

TIE Defender: · Colonel Vessery (35)

Adaptability (Increase) (0)

TIE/x7 (-2)

-- TOTAL ------- 100/100p. --

6 hours ago, Biggsy_boy said:

I think I'd rather have expertise on Vessery. You can focus/evade and use that defensively every turn. It makes him very offensive and very defensive. Since the Rho has LRS, you can focus and already have a TL for full dice mods anyway. You will probably get more out of crack shot or VI. Or, you could do A score to settle and put the title on the gunboat. Slam and shoot

I had an Expertise Vessery listed above. It'll "require" TIE Mk. IIs so it's more like a 5 point upgrade, and likewise a significantly cheaper Gunboat. My issue with Expertise is that it opens up a bigger weakness to stress, and likewise is quite expensive, while providing something you can mostly get from Vessery without upgrades (it's great to use a focus defensively, but you *can* use it offensively). Juke, Intensity, or even Outmaneuver give something utterly different from the focus-effect. However, Expertise is still a strong "push the limit" style of upgrade. Just straight-up action economy value without having to think much about it.

4 hours ago, Skeether said:

Ahh Defender romances. Vessery and Ryad go together like chocolate and peanut butter, and are as sweet as the two as well.

While I'm not too keen on how well a gunboat perform, I do know a thing or two about TIE/SFs. And I won a small tournament with this list. Everybody is slim and trim, but it all fits and it worked well for me. Albeit looking at it now, Vess and BD could use better EPTs if it could be afforded.

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Backdraft" (27)

Trick Shot (0) Fire Control System (2) Lightweight Frame (2) Special Ops Training (0)

TIE Defender: · Countess Ryad (34)

Push The Limit (3) Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1) TIE/x7 (-2)

TIE Defender: · Colonel Vessery (35)

Adaptability (Increase) (0) TIE/x7 (-2)

-- TOTAL ------- 100/100p. --

I've beat this drum before, but A Score To Settle on Vessery. With 3 green dice and a saved focus, the drawback is smaller than on some ships, but the potential upside is huge, since you'll have those free TLs to combo with soft-focus. It'll mean your list is 5-6-7 in PS, which is kinda silly, though. Trick Shot seems great on an SF. If you ever get a double-shot, seems fairly likely one will be obstructed.

If it wasn't for Vessery, I'd consider dropping Countess Ryad down to Intensity. That'll allow some extra action flexibility at a cheaper price (2 fewer points, since you can skip TIE Mk.II), but you can't really use it for TLs to power Vessery's ability. As a stand-alone Countess without Vess, I'm a fan.

I agree with the discourse of Ryad w/ PTL, X7, Mk. II. However, I really prefer to see Vessery as a TIE/D. With that title, Expertise, an Ion Cannon, and your choice of modification, he is almost overwhelmingly powerful, and respectably defensive thanks to a focus action.

That pairs very nicely with the classic Omega Leader, who will be maintaining a TL to feed Vessery.