Had anyone else had an issue with Darth Vader in the finale? The app says he cant be defeated, but when he activates it says if he suffers damage he is defeated after his action. His action causes him to suffer a damage. That lead me to believe he could be damaged by the rebels, then if he suffered damage from his activation he would be defeated after his activation. But the game wouldn't let me mark Vader as "defeated", saying he can't be defeated. Not knowing what to do, we tried to finish the mission just skipping his future activations since we thought he should be defeated based on what the description said during his activation. But then there were no more deployments the rest of the mission and we just walked to the escape ship. Kind of frustrating to end the campaign in such confusion. Should Vader just have never been defeated? If so, why say he could be defeated if he suffered damage equal to his health during his activation?I'm hoping someone can help me with this so I can play the campaign again and not be confused/disappointed at the end again. Thanks in advance for those who help.

He cannot be defeated in the finale.

RRG page 2: "If a card or mission uses the word cannot, that effect is absolute and cannot be overridden by other effects."

Btw, this should be in the LotA forum.

His bonus (being able to activate even when he has suffered damage equal to his health) is a generic bonus which doesn't come to play due to the special mission rule. Yes, I agree it is confusing.

Then why say he is defeated after his activation?

You are missing part of the bonus rule.

If I remember correctly, if he discards harmful conditions at the start of the activation, he suffers the corresponding amount of damage. If that would cause him to have suffered damage equal to his Health, he would still perform the activation. He would only then be defeated. But the mission rule says he cannot be defeated, so it doesn't happen.

Ya i guess that makes sense now. It's just confusing, especially in the moment. And the confusion was what made the end seem like a dud. I guess it's on me for not noticing page two of the rrg, thanks by the way, but I still maintain that it's hard to make out the true intentions of the game sometimes. Thanks for the response.

On December 29, 2017 at 4:33 PM, KotasMilitia said:

I guess it's on me for not noticing page two of the rrg, thanks by the way, but I still maintain that it's hard to make out the true intentions of the game sometimes.

Indeed, it's good to realize that rulebooks are there to be read. If you do that, you should be able to fight your way through most of your issues that come up.

You're also right about the confusing nature of the LotA rulebook as well, as it provides a fourth document in addition to the Learn to Play, Rules Reference, and FAQ to have to reference to look up something that seems a little weird.

It's not a bad idea in non-competitive games to just come up with a plausible answer and play through just to keep the game rolling, but it also seems like you overlooked another important rule; THE IMPERIAL RULE!!!!!

Not uncommon to these types of co-op games with enemy AI and complex situations; you just err on the side of what works out better for the Empire in this game. In the situation you described, it seems like you basically had the right answer (Vader is not defeated) in front of you, and used sound reasoning (in lieu of all the facts, which isn't a knock against you and your group, as I mentioned above with the 4 points of rules to reference, we all overlook things) to come up with an alternative that "made sense" but also made the game way easier.

Now you know better, so there's that, but try and keep the Imperial Rule in mind as well when you replay the campaign or any future ones. Then, like you did here, research the correct ruling and add it to your knowledge base, but at least you get to feel some accomplishment for winning knowing that you had it on "unnecessarily difficult mode" rather than "cake walk".

On 12/31/2017 at 7:21 PM, cleardave said:

Indeed, it's good to realize that rulebooks are there to be read. If you do that, you should be able to fight your way through most of your issues that come up.

You're also right about the confusing nature of the LotA rulebook as well, as it provides a fourth document in addition to the Learn to Play, Rules Reference, and FAQ to have to reference to look up something that seems a little weird.

It's not a bad idea in non-competitive games to just come up with a plausible answer and play through just to keep the game rolling, but it also seems like you overlooked another important rule; THE IMPERIAL RULE!!!!!

Not uncommon to these types of co-op games with enemy AI and complex situations; you just err on the side of what works out better for the Empire in this game. In the situation you described, it seems like you basically had the right answer (Vader is not defeated) in front of you, and used sound reasoning (in lieu of all the facts, which isn't a knock against you and your group, as I mentioned above with the 4 points of rules to reference, we all overlook things) to come up with an alternative that "made sense" but also made the game way easier.

Now you know better, so there's that, but try and keep the Imperial Rule in mind as well when you replay the campaign or any future ones. Then, like you did here, research the correct ruling and add it to your knowledge base, but at least you get to feel some accomplishment for winning knowing that you had it on "unnecessarily difficult mode" rather than "cake walk".

I wasn't trying to cheat, and I did read the rule book. I just missed that bit. Like you said, there is a ton of stuff to comb through now when there is a question about the game. It just sucks when you are at the final stages of the campaign, adrenaline pumping, and you have to pause the game for twenty minutes to figure out what to do correctly. I genuinely searched for a ruling, and after my friends were tired of waiting and wanted Vader defeated. I always try to challenge myself with this game, and followed the imperial rule throughout the campaign. Obviously, i didnt know the rest of the mission would be a cake walk. I don't appreciate being accused of just choosing the easy way and not reading the rule book. This forum is supposed to be used to help people, not to accuse and judge.

13 hours ago, KotasMilitia said:

I don't appreciate being accused of just choosing the easy way and not reading the rule book. This forum is supposed to be used to help people, not to accuse and judge.

I never accused you of cheating or choosing the easy way. I acknowledged your logic in your ruling and based solely on your account wondered if you had overlooked the Imperial Rule, which it sounds like you did in that instance. I don't think you reached a crossroads and thought the correct way wasn't worth doing.

There are a bunch of questions everyone has on the AI scripts, both here and on BGG. I've had a few myself. The purpose of the Imperial Rule in this game (or it's equivalent in other co-ops) is to provide you with some guidance on the "spirit" of the game when you run up against things that seem to leave you at a crossroads with regards to the rules.

It's even worse in this game because the app doesn't track where your heroes and allies are so it just throws out things like "Attack <<Gideon>>" and you're thinking "well he's nowhere near the battle, now what?!"

Like you said about the pace of the game, it's going to interrupt some otherwise exciting moments when you have to figure out a bizarre situation, and we're all here in support of that, both in the sense that we've played through it ourselves, scratching our heads as we go, and then offering our collective guidance and experience for the next person who tries to decipher some of the AI script nuances.

Just to clarify, is this what you were seeing? The part that says "if this figure would be defeated, it is not defeated until the end of this activation."?

46 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Just to clarify, is this what you were seeing? The part that says "if this figure would be defeated, it is not defeated until the end of this activation."?

Yes that is what I was talking about, except mine didn't show the overlaying "darth vader cannot be defeated". Is that an update?

That's what happens if you try to tell the app you defeated Darth Vader, it just reminds you that Darth Vader can't be defeated and nothing changes. It's been there since day 1, because I remember testing that in the first mission when I was just messing around and not really playing.

So did you guys just pull the figure off the board and ignore Darth Vaders activations in the app at that point?

7 hours ago, Tvboy said:

That's what happens if you try to tell the app you defeated Darth Vader, it just reminds you that Darth Vader can't be defeated and nothing changes. It's been there since day 1, because I remember testing that in the first mission when I was just messing around and not really playing.

So did you guys just pull the figure off the board and ignore Darth Vaders activations in the app at that point?

Have you tried marking him as having activated and then defeating him? Since he can't be defeated until he's activated...